FL FL - Austin Stephanos & Perry Cohen, both 14, Jupiter, 24 July 2015 - #1

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JeannaT

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Sometimes, you just don't have the opportunity to recover remains. When you think of ALL the vast ocean life - dolphins, sharks, whales, who die in the ocean and we never see them. They just settle to the bottom.

The thought of finding two young men out there in the Atlantic, no longer on a boat, is insurmountable. As much as the family would like the remains found, I think we could spend the National GDP and come up empty. We can't spend all our resources recovering remains of deceased people where there is no foul play suspected.

Meanwhile, there are still people in third world countries who are blown up every day by land mines that have been left over from wars long forgotten. There are programs where volunteers build handcarts for these nations - because the people are getting limbs blown off all the time and are in need of wheelchairs and other prosthetics.

It's a sad loss that these boys are gone -but they're gone. Maybe as a memorial, the families could start a boating awareness program for that particular inlet, or set up another kind of program in their memory as so many grieving parents have done to prevent the loss to other families.

A good start would be requiring an adult on boats of that size. This isn't a rowboat in a lake, and IMHO 14 year old boys don't have the ability to pilot them. I say this, having cousins from the Pensacola area who both owned boats at 14 and one of them ran into a house in his speed boat. A house.
 

Hatfield

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Thanks.
From your link:


A Sarasota helicopter company found two life jackets Tuesday near a sandbar off Savannah, Georgia.
Heli Aviation posted a picture on its Facebook page and said it was working to confirm a possible connection with the disappearance of Perry Cohen and Austin Stephanos.
There is no confirmation of the owners of the life jackets. Due to reports of the life jackets being found, a group called DEEMI out of Maine is sending a dog search team to coastal Georgia to aid in the search.
http://m.wpbf.com/news/missing-boys...F 25 News&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_source=Social

Thats interesting. If that is the lifejackets from the boat then it is a good idea to search the surrounding area.

If the life jackets were floating by themselves then the jackets could have separated and drifted much different due to the wind probably moving the jackets quicker than boys. The wind could have carried the jackets toward shore when people in the gulf stream may not have been carried towards the shore as much.
It would all depend if the boys got separated from the jackets or not.

At least its something to go on. They dont say how far from shore the sandbar was from land. I suspect it is not too far out from land.
 

Amo630

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reason being it would have took manpower/equipment away from the search and that was the number one priority at the time.

I have been following the "hull truth" forum about this. From what the experienced captains say, it is the families duty to tow the boat back in. The CG is not responsible.
 

Amo630

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I completely agree. But when someone dies they often become a perfectly
developed demi-god. Before that they were your imperfect but very much loved ones.


Since I have lost my fiancé at a very young age, I know what you're saying. But, I also know as a professional who deals with grief, someone has to be a voice of reason.
 

SeaSpur

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As for the fuel, it would have drained out from the upside down motor. And even if it didn't, you would have no way of knowing how much fuel was in the boat without knowing how much was in it before they gassed up.

The fuel isn't in the motor, it's in the gas tank...like a car has. They put $110 in fuel which is about 25-30 gallons depending on marina (usually $4-4.25/gal right now in Florida). I don't know the fuel capacity of that particular boat, but I'd assume it was between 35-65 gallons. Again, I mentioned it wouldn't tell you a LOT but it could possibly have given some clue as to if this was quick or if they headed off a long way before it died.

Also, not that it is crucial, but it was a 4 stroke engine versus a 2 stroke. The only significance there is that, all things considered, 4 strokes are more reliable (but that depends on a lot of other factors).
 

SeaSpur

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I guess this is where the difference of opinion lies: as others have said before, the most crucial and vital areas of understanding are patently obvious: do not traverse a dangerous inlet in a small boat when a storm is approaching and have at least a radio and basic safety equipment in your boat in all conditions.

These are the only areas of "understanding" that have any real value.

What the boys were intending, how much fuel they may have expended, where exactly they drowned...I doubt these could be determined with certainty...when the boat was found more than 48 hours after the "event" occurred. These details aren't even particularly pertinent IMO to a recovery operation for the bodies....this is the open sea! Currents, tides, marine life all add unknown variables. I just dont know what "clues" from that boat have any REAL value in this particular case.

I don't think the possible clues would have provided closure, but I think searching for them should be part of any normal investigation in an incident like this. I can think of a few reasons (which I have listed some already) that would have aided into a possibility of what happened:

1. The missing cowling from the engine. Those don't come off easily by themselves. IMO, I truly believe that is a smoking gun (for lack of better term) in this tragedy. That tells me an engine failure happened and like anyone does with their car, they lift the hood to see if anything sticks out as completely obvious. For all I know, they may have even better a little smarter when it came to a mechanical issue on an outboard motor and decided to check it out.

2. Was there a missing anchor possibly? Many capsizing incidents occur when people are anchored and seas get really bad...or even worse, people anchor AFTER seas get back because they think it will "keep them steady."

3. Safety items. I don't want to discredit the Coast Guard's dive team, but if all compartments weren't extensively searched...we don't know if a lifejacket was really missing or if so, how many. I've seen some boat storage compartments that are an absolute mess.

3a. To add to that, maybe there was disarray of the center console compartment and other storage areas that would lead some to believe an emergency struck quick and they scrambled.

4. Fuel missing doesn't add much to the story, but it could spell a few things: if very little fuel was used, we can assume the incident happened soon after their departure.

Again, I can understand your sentiments and that knowing any of these things couldn't tell us exactly what happened nor could it tell us where to find the 2 boys. However, I think some people choose (rightfully so) to have a more inquisitive mind that doesn't care to leave stones unturned.
 

IndianSummer

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http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/dogs-to-help-in-search-for-missing-tequesta-boys/nnC3C/
The dogs will sniff the life jackets, found on a sandbar about 20 miles offshore Monday night, for any scent of the boys...
In recent days, DEEMI, a Maine-based nonprofit, has coordinated air searches and collected high resolution photographs while searching for any sign of the missing teens. The actor John Travolta donated a twin-engine Eclipse jet that was used in the search effort, Bowie said. DEEMI arranged for the dogs to be taken to Savannah to help in the search....
Thousand of photographs have been analyzed as the crew try to find any items that could be linked to the boys...
 

katydid23

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So did the wind blow those life jackets up on the sandbar? I am confused. They might not even be the boys jackets. IDK
 

Hiandmighty

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The desired goal was raised to $4.8 million (people have screen shots).
 

Kaliste

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Holy moly. That is the most toxic FB group I have ever seen. I'm blown away. Every single comment is about "no drama" and "stop being negative" while simultaneously calling every poster a terrible person. It's a complete mess. Be wary of anyone that says they don't like drama because the opposite is usually true.


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Kaliste

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The desired goal was raised to $4.8 million (people have screen shots).

The parents of the boys need a loving friend or family member to firmly grab the by the shoulders and tell them it's over, these boys are not coming home. The families need to start grieving, I can't imaging the pain they are in. It's irresponsible and just plain cruel of people to suggest they are being cared for by Dolphins or going Swiss family Robinson on an island or floating carefree on a cooler. It's over. It's a terrible ending for two you. Lives but the family needs to accept this to be able to start the grieving process and come to terms with this tragedy. That won't happen with 300k FB users throwing money and lies at them though.


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vega

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So did the wind blow those life jackets up on the sandbar? I am confused. They might not even be the boys jackets. IDK

It would have been a combination of an onshore wind component, tidal forces, and an eddy in the Gulf Stream current looping back just far enough into the nearshore waters. The island/sandbar where the discovery was made does stick out pretty far into the water as compared to it's surrounding geography. I will be surprised if this verifies, but anything is possible I suppose.

From the helicopter video clip, we can see how far the high tide line pushed inland. So the tidal forces, enhanced by the full moon combined with the geography, may have played a larger role than one might initially expect.
 

Hatfield

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How sad.
The mob is killing the messenger IMO.

Wow. The public SM is just insanity on their business FB. So sad.

People that have ZERO knowledge in what it takes to conduct and execute a search effort have the nerve to criticize their efforts. They dont deserve that when they are just trying to help. Good Grief.
They should have turned off the comments feature somehow on their business FB.

Sadly it doesnt surprise me though.

I have seen this sort of thing for years now on newspaper websites that have a comment section. It quickly deteriorates to arguments and cursewords each and every time.

I have a theory about it that I am not sure a lot of people consider while on newspaper FB sites and sites like the boys FB to find them.

My theory is you have a lot of very young immature people on SM that are part of the discussions. Im talking very young like 10, 12, 14 and they carry on discussions like they do in junior high and high school. When they intermingle in the discussions with older more mature people it generates conflict because we are on totally different wavelengths.

Anyway, its been a running theory I have had for some time about why discussions seem to border on insanity.

I hope that helicopter business recovers from the SM attacks. They dont deserve any of it.
 

Koa

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The fuel isn't in the motor, it's in the gas tank...like a car has. They put $110 in fuel which is about 25-30 gallons depending on marina (usually $4-4.25/gal right now in Florida). I don't know the fuel capacity of that particular boat, but I'd assume it was between 35-65 gallons. Again, I mentioned it wouldn't tell you a LOT but it could possibly have given some clue as to if this was quick or if they headed off a long way before it died.

Also, not that it is crucial, but it was a 4 stroke engine versus a 2 stroke. The only significance there is that, all things considered, 4 strokes are more reliable (but that depends on a lot of other factors).

In the 100HP range, the 4 strokes are about 50 lbs heavier than the 2 stroke which is one of the things I don't like about them especially on an open transom boat.

Everyone's an expert, in their own mind. Monday morning quarterbacking is alive and well. All the shouldas isn't going to save the 2 teens; they are gone.

Hopefully the tragedy of this case will serve to remind people to always wear a life vest when in the water and if sailing or boating, invest in and wear a personal GPS device, which exists for just such purposes. Technology can help save your life and get you rescued and it's a worthwhile investment.

I'm not sure if you're speaking about people in general or about people posting on this thread, but I have a sense there are more than a few knowledgable people posting here with experience, trying to give accurate info about what they thought might have happen to help others understand.

As for me, I grew up in Melbourne (then Eau Gallie) above Jupiter, as a kid, spent a little time camping on islands accessible only by boat in the Indian River with my parents and their friends. My best friend and I got scuba certified in HS and dove the freshwater springs and Keys. We were water people like these kids. After HS we went to Hawaii for school and started collecting reef fish and shipping them back to Florida. That became a business in the late sixties. Collecting trips from Hawaii to Majuro, Grand Cayman, the Keys before setting up a collecting station in Tahiti where I started diving alone in the early 70's. My friend moved to the Big Island and then spent 20 years collecting out of Fiji, now back on Big Island. When I finally relocated back to Hawaii, I ended up diving alone for the last 30+ years. Granted, it's not middle of the ocean, deadliest catch type fishing, since I need to be in diving depth water, but I, and everyone I know that does this type of fishing, personally know people who have died doing this, been lost and never found, been lost and rescued, crippled from the bends, we all have stories, mishaps, encounters, near misses, the list is long after almost 50 years. I've spent almost my entire life on or under the ocean.

The cool thing is, my childhood friend and I still see each other a few times a year. I feel, if Austin and Perry had survived, in fifty years they would have still been in touch with each other also. Sorry, I rambled way too much here, with my bottle of wine almost empty and my ailing chocolate lab barking for attention, I should go...

Raise a glass to the gnarly kids.
 

sonjay

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So did the wind blow those life jackets up on the sandbar? I am confused. They might not even be the boys jackets. IDK

I will be very surprised if those turn out to be the boys' life jackets. With all the storms we've had here in Florida, with accompanying high winds, over the past couple of weeks, there are probably tons of life jackets blown overboard and floating around out there. Heck, there's probably more than a few entire boats floating around out there. This is Florida; it happens all the time.
 

mrsu

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katydid23

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The parents of the boys need a loving friend or family member to firmly grab the by the shoulders and tell them it's over, these boys are not coming home. The families need to start grieving, I can't imaging the pain they are in. It's irresponsible and just plain cruel of people to suggest they are being cared for by Dolphins or going Swiss family Robinson on an island or floating carefree on a cooler. It's over. It's a terrible ending for two you. Lives but the family needs to accept this to be able to start the grieving process and come to terms with this tragedy. That won't happen with 300k FB users throwing money and lies at them though.


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It kind of reminds me of some of the families I just heard talking about their missing loved ones on the Malaysian airliner. After that broken wing was found this one group was upset because they 'do not want to give up hope yet.' Really? I am not sure what possible hope that can be clinging to after all of this time. Very sad.
 
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