Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by bwt42, Dec 23, 2015.
So sad. Rest in peace, Barbara.
What a sad ending.
This is truly heartbreaking
Newly Released Police Dash-Cam Video Shows Arrest of Woman Who Died After Being Forced From Florida Hospital
As I was half listening to the news tonight, I heard the recording of her speaking to the police and my head whipped up. OMG! She sounded like she was drowning in fluid. This may have been a 25 bed tiny hospital not equipped to deal with more acute emergencies. At minimum, she should have been put back in a treatment room. If they didn't have the capabilities to treat, you call an ambulance and have them taken to the nearest hospital that does.
I didn't realize that in Florida, the hospitals are NOT required to treat you if you don't have insurance or can't pay. I had never heard of such a thing as I have never ever seen a patient turned away in the Mid Atlantic hospitals I worked in. My gosh, Army choppers would land out front of the hospital where I worked in NC back in the 80's and I know insurances weren't checked before loading the patient on the chopper and flying them in. This is long before hospitals had their own choppers btw.
Unfortunately, this woman seemed to be labeled a frequent flyer and they didn't take her seriously IMO. That combined with a medical someone not suspecting a PE or worse ended badly. Nurses may not be able to technically diagnose, but 9 times out of 10, they have begun the work up on the patient before an MD even sees the patient. They typically have a very good idea of what the differential diagnosis could be and get the ball rolling.
I am so so sorry this woman died the way she did. I still don't have all the facts, but if what I heard when she talked, through a TV was any indication, someone dropped the ball big time. IMOO
As rich as medical services may be, there is (in the US, at least) a sort of moral bankruptcy regarding medical services. Call me a bleeding heart, but my neighbor's health and material needs are my moral needs.
Seems she'd had ongoing medical problems.
A small hospital like this does not probably have the best doctors and nurses on staff. If this lady was a frequent patient, the staff may not have been as attentive as they would be to a new patient.
Depending on when her last visit was, the diagnosis, and the tests that were run, may also have been a deciding factor in what was done this time.
Did I read that Florida does NOT have to treat an uninsured person? If so, this is so sad. Barbara must have known this but did not feel she could drive herself to another hospital. The hospitals in my state have to take you, so going to the ER is a 5-7 hour minimum wait! If you are really sick or hurt, you go in an ambulance to at least get a hallway position on a gurney.
My opinions only.
It really is heartbreaking. She tried so hard to get help and it was obvious to me she was short of breath even with the oxygen on.
Seems as though she had a history with the hospital and that may be part of why this happened.
I can't fault the officer but I do wonder why he felt the need to mention she was black during the call in for transport.
Amazing to me they thought she was pretending after her collapse. IMO
I had to turn it off right away. I couldn't stand to hear it. I heard enough to know this poor woman suffered terribly.
Can't capture the wording but she was re-admitted after collapsing in the parking lot before being taken in for arrest. Officers report
Thanks for linking the incident report, Peliman. Sadly, by then it was too late. :tsktsk:
I'm not a medical expert, but her voice sounded strong & clear to me.
LE is wrong for being LE.
If it rains on someones parade, LE are guilty. JMO
Godspeed Barbara Dawson
PE is not an easy diagnosis. Does a 25 bed hospital even have the capability of a VQ scan plus a certified radiologist on hand to read the results? While indeed it does not sound like this woman received compassionate treatment, death rates are extremely high for PE - meaning that even had they found it, she may have still died.
I agree the actions of the hospital made the poor woman's last minutes miserable.
I once had to get quite "loud" at the nurse's station in a large city hospital where a loved one was a patient. I had gotten a call that my loved one was discharged, came to get her and discovered her to be extremely short of breath. I called the nurse, said I refused to take her out of the hospital with this amount of SOB and requested a doctor to come and recheck her. Waited and waited, finally he came. After she failed a pulse ox/ambulation test in the hall, he ordered a VQ scan. This was around 4:00PM on a Saturday. When no one had come to take the patient down for the VQ scan by 7:00PM I started to ask some hard questions of the nurse. Finally she told me, "we've decided the test can wait until Monday morning".
At that point my voice became quite loud as I demanded to know why when a doctor ordered a test at 4:00PM and I was in a major hospital that spent millions of dollars on continuous TV advertisements telling me it is "one of the top hospitals in the Eastern United States" that they can't run a needed test until MONDAY? I then asked if she wanted to call the doctor right then and there to clarify when he expected the test to be done or if she wanted me to track him down?
Within 15 minutes my loved one was on her way for the test. I later learned that the on-call radiologist didn't want to come in. Now, how about that?
The diagnosis was a PE. Fortunately when it hit the lung it broke up into a bunch of small pieces. My loved one was treated and survived.
NEVER be afraid to speak up - but just DON'T cuss or swear no matter how frustrated you are. Ask for another doctor to come for a second opinion, ask for a specialist to be called in. Ask for a nursing supervisor to be called. Ask for the patient advocate, a social worker, a hospital administrator. I am a great believer in the squeaky wheel gets oiled.
Just want to bring up that V/Q studies (ventilation/ perfusion) haven't been standard of care in emergency diagnosis of PE for quite a while-- probably more than 15 years. Helical CT, also called "spiral CT", is the new standard of care, and can be accomplished quickly. Many very small hospitals have this capability.
Also, the use of outsourced distance-based radiology is also pretty much standard of care in many smaller hospitals, such as the Nighthawk group.
I think some people may have a very outdated idea about what small hospitals are, and are not, and what their capabilities are. "Small" doesn't automatically mean backward, outdated, understaffed, and/ or incompetent.
If this woman had a massive saddle PE (which is sure what it sounds like), it wouldn't even be necessary for a highly trained radiologist to see it. It's pretty obvious on a CT. Saddle PE is hard to treat, has a high mortality, and there is not a lot of consensus on the best management, IMO. That said, you can't diagnose it without putting the patient into the CT scanner. I'm not sure at all what kind of care she had before being discharged the first time. Sad case. But I don't hold the police responsible here.
And sometimes (sadly) you have to be that squeaky wheel. A nursing supervisor helped me in that last ER situation I posted about.
I insisted on seeing her. The nurse that was on staff (the one taking delight in upsetting me) said that I didn't have to do that she would tell her my concerns.
I objected and said I would find her myself. When I came back a few minutes later the supervisor was waiting.
She saw that the proper tests were done and everything went well on her watch.
Glad everything worked out well for you and that you stood firm for your family member.
[h=1]Hospital where woman in custody died cited for deficiencies[/h]
The hospital where a black woman died after she was forcibly removed from the emergency room by a white police officer was cited for 10 "deficiencies," including failing to properly examine the woman when she complained of difficulty breathing, state health officials said.