Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by mayqueen, Mar 20, 2012.
He's not in that cave. Someone would have found some sign of him by now. As the body was reclaimed by the water, the equipment would have separated and been found. The shovel could have been anyone's. If the best cave divers in the world say he's not there, he's not there.
I think that was wise. :moo:
So....if you all don't think he's in the cave....WHERE do you think he is??!!!
No clue, Tristan. This case is totally puzzling. I don't even have a favorite theory.
I'm a little fascinated by this case. I admit that I know absolutely nothing about cave diving; but, is it not possible to put a locator in the diver's equipment that will ping (kind of like a black box from an airplane) to help locate bodies if a diver meets a tragedy?
Since hearing of this case I decided to read up on a scuba forum to try to understand all of this a little better. There were people on that forum that were actually involved in the search for Ben McDaniel. A lot of them explained things very well to where even I could understand them. There are many different factors (not just that no one has located the body) that point to the conclusions that they have come to. After reading their comments, based on their expertise, I do not believe that Ben is in that cave nor that he ever made it back as far as everyone speculates.
It really is a mystery. I would really hate to think that the hoax/intentional disappearance theories have any validity. I would hope that he would not put his family through this kind of torture and pain. I also tend to think that if he had voluntarily disappeared he would have at least taken the money he had in his wallet.
One thing that does bother me is that cadaver dogs detected decomp in the water and on the bank. Kind of makes you wonder if someone didn't find his remains and do something w/ them that night or the next morning. I just don't know. This case bothers me; so, I can't even begin to imagine how his family feels.
2 Year Anniversary of Diver Disappearance
It's been two years since the disappearance of Ben McDaniel. The Collierville, Tennessee native was last seen diving at Vortex Springs in Ponce de Leon, but police are still trying to piece together what happened after that.
Ben's on my mind today. I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to him.
I just noticed this on the Ben's Vortex Facebook page:
The man who composed the music for the film (Ben's Vortex), Xavier Fleuranceau, died while scuba diving on September 29, 2012.
Another diving death. It's a risky hobby / passion.
If someone wanted to murder a diver, this would be a great way to get away with it. It seems like all the focus was on the diving. Suppose someone wanted to murder him for a reason and using a method that had nothing to do with diving. If they kidnapped him from the dive site, they could murder him in some area nearby with no one even looking there. They did say they looked at the cameras.
I'm not saying LE did anything wrong. It's jut bizarre to think this could have been a crime unrelated to diving. The criminal may have just gotten lucky, not realizing this was a dangerous place to dive and he lacked certifications.
Seems that people associated with searching for Ben keep dying, first one of the search team, then the guy that wrote the music for the documentary...I guess this is a really dangerous hobby...
I don't understand why he would have wanted to dive that cave at night? People go on night dives in the ocean because you get to see the night creatures come out and the coral and sealife looks more colorful at night because of the darkness (an that daylight is filtered thru the water and there is that bluish cast to thing, I think).
But I have dove Vortex at night. There is nothing there but large carp (goldfishy looking) and small eels. We dove there at night as a practice run for a night dive in the ocean. We played with the eels and practiced removing gear and doing all sorts of maneuvers. I can't imagine why he would have gone into the cave at night, and definitely don't know why he would go alone. Was it just because he knew he was not supposed to be there so he couldn't go in the day when others were there?
I was very surprised to see so little activity here about this case. From what I know, the ending of the story thus far and the possible outcomes are just as frayed and inscrutable as in the Maura Murray case.
I believe Ben had motive to run away. It's also possible he died in the cave, but if he did, where is his body? Are we meant to believe people are still diving down there, possibly through clouds of decaying flesh? That is crazy.
I know they found a tool and possibly two diving tanks, but that's not good enough to come to a conclusion.
I've read that Ben's family did some whitewashing of history (also called lying). What else don't we know about Ben and this case?
just saw the episode on disappeared the other day. some things that caught my eye
the last people to go search for him were the lady i believe she was from another country
who said if he was in the cave he would be in a crevice somewhere well hidden
the map in his log book or what he mapped out did not match with the map for vortex springs
they spent more time on the cave than anything and the outside ex property of vortex springs and his truck were not searched although they did mention in the show that they did search his car and around the property but i not sure if it was done right away or when they realized ben was not in the caves
One thing about alligators is that they are messy eaters. After drowning a victim, they break the body into chunks and some of those pieces might float away or be moved by other animals. Smaller animals might regurgitate or defecate undigested bones. And often the alligator doesn't even bother eating the torso. So my understanding is that generally some remains are found of victims of alligators. Also, they are physiologically unable to feed in cold water (around 70 degrees). The Wikipedia page says that Vortex Springs is pretty consistently 68 F so that's another reason to rule out alligators.
I do think that your idea about uncharted springs, tunnels, etc. is very compelling. It could explain why dogs detected decomposition, but there were no telltale signs of animal scavenging. I recall Edd Sorenson was adamant that Vortex is a restricted system. However, the program also said that the whole system has not been mapped past the "final" restriction so I don't know how someone could say that with any certainty. It's really an interesting theory and I wonder if investigators have seriously considered it.
Sorry, my reply above is in response to some of Cindi Lou's earlier posts!
Good info about cave diving deaths and what can lead to their peril using Blue Sink as a reference
Here is an example map of a cave system. Notice that it leads into the Santa Fe River
Vortex Springs info, map link at bottom http://www.floridacaves.com/vortex.htm
hLooking at Mapquest Vortex Spring leads into Blue Creek but could it also lead into Choctawachee River ultimately ending in the Gulf of Mexico? https://www.google.com/maps/place/V...2!3m1!1s0x8893ca699aabc699:0xfde0cfd257ad460b
With that said.... it is possible that Ben is not down there at all (or in the GOM) but has walked away as some suggest and is sipping margaritas on some beach or exploring caves in Acapulco. I just find it hard to believe that someone would walk away from their family and never even try to contact them especially for 5 years. I guess it's possible.
The Australian lady said the shovel was left by one of the other search divers.
The cadaver dogs hit around the top of the pool, murder seems to be a theory, but the motive is unclear. I'm reminded of a missing person in Arkansas a few years ago, a John Glasgow I believe, who disappeared in 2008, remains were just found in Feb 2015 at the bottom of a cliff. The search experts, who used dogs, declared absolutely that Glasgow was not in Pettit Jean Park - but he was. I think Ben McDaniel is in the cave somewhere in the absence of any other evidence.
A very good question, was the gate locked or unlocked when someone finally decided to check on McDaniel.