FL FL - Big Cypress National Preserve, Male hiker, "Denim" and "Mostly Harmless", 23 July 2018 #4

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Gardener1850, Aug 3, 2018.

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  1. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you're breaking the rules posting the menu. I think the place shut down for maybe two reasons a) the food wasn't all that good; and b) it might be located in a place not conducive to traffic. I went on Tripadvisor to look at reviews and the were mostly, meh. Comments such as bland, canned mushrooms, not enough toppings, canned chili rather than homemade, etc.

    One thing I did notice was that one reviewer mentioned the restaurant had only opened up four weeks before they were there in May 2018.
     


  2. lonewanderer

    lonewanderer Well-Known Member

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    Every. Detail. Counts.

    In addition to reasons why he may not have eaten the pizza, it also may define a particular strange eating habit that someone may recognize.

    The picture also shows multiple people who interacted with him, which may lead to someone recalling key details, perhaps even details about the pizza, eating habits, declining to eat it due to pork (which may indicate religious beliefs). Perhaps the key details could be non pizza related, but could describe things we did not know about him. Conversely, it could be a statement that confirms or denies things we believe to be true (but may be skeptical) about him (the sister for instance, one person may recall him specifically talking about her or specifically talking about being an only child).

    Heck, for all we know, MH or a family member of his could have been the owner of a famous pizza shop and that would help if a person recalled it.

    Discussing the pizza is more than discussing the pizza. It is jogging ideas and looking at angles that may (or may not) lead to patterns of behavior and/or recollections of the persons he ate the pizza around.
     
  3. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    Since we're talking about speculation vs possibility (which in all these scenarios are pretty much the same, IMO), I think it's possible that he left the trail, due to the gaps in him popping up at various camps while considering he said he was only hiking 10 miles a day.

    Remember, NONE of us can prove anything, we are speculating based on how each of us perceive every nugget of information. So if we can speculate that he had an eating disorder due to him nibbling the edges of a pizza we can speculate it was because he was lactose intolerant, because it was a crappy pizza, because he wasn't feeling well, etc, etc, etc.

    My speculation regarding him dying of starvation doesn't include him having an eating disorder. My speculation is that he had some underlying medical condition that made it difficult for his body to utilize nourishment. The AR is inconclusive in that way which is what is opening the door for speculating about medical problems and eating disorders.
     
  4. lonewanderer

    lonewanderer Well-Known Member

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    That is where I thought you were heading with this. In addition, there are major gaps where we do not know his whereabouts, no one has seemed to see him, and there are no pictures of him.

    For the ED, I also think the same thing. I have kicked around some (far-fetched) ideas such as smoke inhalation and trying to hide from it in his tent. I have also speculated about him having a condition leading up to starving due to a form of paralysis (stroke, seizure, coma, tetanus) and being technically alive but ultimately dying from starvation.

    A few (off the wall) theories I won't discuss to deeply is the possibility of toxic fumes instead of smoke. There is also the possibility that a very foggy day could have disorientated him very badly and he didn't realize how much time had passed or where he was. Eventually he stumbled back to his tent, ate and drank something, and then succumbed shortly after.

    A (slightly ridiculous) theory of mine is that he may have been (literally) scared to death. In this scenario, MH may have been surrounded by wild boars, Florida panthers, bobcats, (probably not bears in the summer) etc. That is a little dramatic sounding to be scared to death from animals making intimidating sounds (such as boars burrowing), but what if he was deathly afraid of (lets say) snakes (a very common phobia) and woke up with one (or more) on his chest (or other areas such as the place that was mysteriously bleeding). When scared to death (literally) your adrenaline glands kick into high gear and completely take over your central nervous system. This could have lead to him trashing the tent to try and get the snake away, and this his system went into total shock. The overload could have completely disabled him until he starved to death. (Super wild speculation, but hey, I have an over-active imagination).
     
  5. MaryFromFla

    MaryFromFla Well-Known Member

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    I want to know what was in the bag in the tree? I have been kicking around the idea of possible botulism poisoning. He could have been incapable of calling out from something like that...
     
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  6. MaryFromFla

    MaryFromFla Well-Known Member

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    I have seen people that aren't from here freak out over our xtreme thunder storms. If there were multiple lightning strikes close by, and all you are in is a tiny tent it can be terrifying.
     
  7. mjak

    mjak Well-Known Member

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    I have been following this thread and hope that Mostly Harmless will get his name back via DNA/Genealogy. I am not sure we will ever know what he exactly died of. Something caused him to starve and perish. I think conversations about pizza and eating disorders can be good exercises for exploration but I think we should use caution. A photo is just a snapshot, a moment in time. A minute later he could have knocked off that whole pizza. I would never trust anyone's recollection now of what he did or did not eat. They likely can't even recall what they ate. Unless a hiker had a trail name like "marshmallow" because all they ate the whole hike were marshmallows we really can't draw any conclusions about their eating habits by memories from strangers over a year old. Nor can we really make inferences from photos not based on clear fact. He had knee issues, we see he wore knee braces, ect. We know he consumed enough calories to hike the Appalachian trail thus we know he did eat. We know in his photo's he did not look malnourished, hiker thin yes. If I had to guess about his death I think he came down with a stomach ailment, maybe toxin from water or food consumed on the trail and lost a lot of weight. He did start to recover, so was able to eat and drink again but likely died from an electrical malfunction of his heart due to prolonged starvation. That would be as much as I would guess. I don't think the cause of his death is going to prove too helpful in bringing him back to his family. May he be resting in peace.
     
  8. lonewanderer

    lonewanderer Well-Known Member

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    I personally like mysteries and finding out what happened...be it a mysterious picture, mysterious death, mysterious identity...kinda why I joined WS in the first place....
     
  9. gfinale

    gfinale Well-Known Member

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    OK, so your entire reason that you believe he went off trail or, at least that it's possible he went off trail, is the timeline based on witnesses of when he was at this place or that place. Are there any other reasons, Muffy, not that there need to be? BTW, is there a difference between speculation and possibility?! Probability, now that's another thing!

    Most people would eat the whole damn pizza after living off little for many days on the trail. That's where probability takes hold ;)

    I lean toward him not having an eating disorder too. I think that he couldn't eat much for whatever reasons.
     
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  10. gfinale

    gfinale Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with your last thought about the cause of his death not helping to bring him back to his family for many reasons including those already discussed. For instance, and only for instance, what if the cause of death ends up saying he had a certain disease? So, the flyers saying we're looking for this person and he had this disease. Then a person who knows him reads he had this certain disease. Only one example of tons.
     
  11. mjak

    mjak Well-Known Member

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    I like mysteries too and brain storming is a good tool but imo it should be done with awareness of variables, like a photo is a moment in time.
     
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  12. mjak

    mjak Well-Known Member

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    the medical examiner I believe stated the cause of death as starvation. no explanation for the starvation was found. It might be when he is ID his family might know information regarding his health that could shed light on why he might have starved but short of another autopsy or a witness being found who could shed light not sure how we can add light on why he starved.
     
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  13. proctorelites

    proctorelites Well-Known Member

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    And all this time I thought he jusy sat down to eat OR thay was his 2nd pc. of pizza....
     
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  14. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    I am not really that interested in what he ate or didn't eat during the hike. Him not eating in a random restaurant during the time period those who met him never commented on his lack of nourishment. Only that he liked to eat sweets. Oh, and there is no diminutive of Branmuffin. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  15. mojave_red

    mojave_red Active Member

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    Not MiniMuffin?
     
  16. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    Lol!
     
  17. mjak

    mjak Well-Known Member

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    Brainmuffinette :)
     
  18. mjak

    mjak Well-Known Member

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    I believe mostly harmless went off the grid with every intention of rejoining society at some point. His writings focused on future creative ideas not hopeless depressive ramblings. Everyone who met him found him approachable, friendly and appropriate. He looked happy and present in his pictures. He had a journey before he got on the Appalachian trail and I believe someone is missing him
     
  19. lonewanderer

    lonewanderer Well-Known Member

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    You mean, like the insane amount of variables we have been discussing concerning the timestamped moment of existence in human history that directly proves the existence of an unknown man??
     
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  20. mjak

    mjak Well-Known Member

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    LoL, I was really focusing on the awareness part of the variables. For example the pizza. We have a picture of him biting pizza. The only thing imo we can derive from that regarding denim, is he ate pizza. The whole eating disorder thought is just random conjecture and nothing in the pizza picture supports it.
     
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