GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #4

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Zuri

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I was going to make the poll when both sides rest. I was just curious as we are all the 13th jurors, which way you were leaning.
 

Whiteorchids

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I was going to make the poll when both sides rest. I was just curious as we are all the 13th jurors, which way you were leaning.


At this point MI but pre-meditated murder. Not insane.
 

east2west

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btw, her Ego is the predominant Self. It would have never allowed for a suicide.


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bloodmeridian

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Just a thought: (and I know a lot you feel differently), but if you were on this Jury...the question before you would not be:

"Did JS think about, plan, prepare for, and carry out the murder of her children?"
(There is ample evidence to back this up!)

The question before you would be:

"Did JS know it was wrong, at the moment she carried out the murder of her children?"

I would soooo....not want to be on this jury!
 

bloodmeridian

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I was going to make the poll when both sides rest. I was just curious as we are all the 13th jurors, which way you were leaning.

I'm leaning towards insanity. Only because I worked in that field for a very long time........which I suppose gives me a bit of insight into how someone can appear to make sense when they really don't. Her 'confession' bothers me. Those are not the words of a person trying to hide what they have done, and she's speaking to the Officer's so matter-of-factly, and nonchalantly....as if they will understand her point of view!?!? That's insane IMHO!

At the same time, the element of choice (and it's just an element IMO) in her 'self-medicating' bothers me too. But Alcoholism and Drug Addiction are illnesses also. They are 'Mental Illnesses' . A disease of the body and mind. IMO

Whatever way the jury go, Julie Schenecker will never see the light of day again, IMO, and I'd rather see her placed in a facility where she can get treatment. Contrary to what some folk think, she will NOT get the help she needs in prison.

Just my tuppence....:truce:
 

Rhozwen

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At this point in the trial, based on the evidence, do you think JS is Guilty of pre- mediated murder or Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity?

At this present time, based on the definition of legally insane and based on testimony heard so far, I think she is guilty of pre-meditated 1st degree murder.
 

east2west

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Don't you mean narcissism? Lol

Exactly. To say she intended to commit suicide that evening after executing her kids but failed in her attempt because she became drowsy after inhaling and ingesting nicotine, pills, spritzers and some beer is preposterous.

She coulda put the revolver to her head immediately after the first or second execution of her kids but she did not. Instead she wheeled her daughter across the carpeted floor in the computer chair and dumped her on the mattress and then proceceded to saunter downstairs to the lanai for some smokes, ethanol, and some vengeance by way of a pen and some 3M Post-It Notes.

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Bernina

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I'm leaning towards insanity. Only because I worked in that field for a very long time........which I suppose gives me a bit of insight into how someone can appear to make sense when they really don't. Her 'confession' bothers me. Those are not the words of a person trying to hide what they have done, and she's speaking to the Officer's so matter-of-factly, and nonchalantly....as if they will understand her point of view!?!? That's insane IMHO!

At the same time, the element of choice (and it's just an element IMO) in her 'self-medicating' bothers me too. But Alcoholism and Drug Addiction are illnesses also. They are 'Mental Illnesses' . A disease of the body and mind. IMO

Whatever way the jury go, Julie Schenecker will never see the light of day again, IMO, and I'd rather see her placed in a facility where she can get treatment. Contrary to what some folk think, she will NOT get the help she needs in prison.

Just my tuppence....:truce:

I'm not leaning towards insanity, I'm there.
I can see her more easily self medicating because of the intense side effects she experienced, especially at Walter Reed.
I imagine when she became "Mentally disabled", she really spiraled. Another "label" that an individual is "defective".
 

MyBelle

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I'm leaning towards insanity. Only because I worked in that field for a very long time........which I suppose gives me a bit of insight into how someone can appear to make sense when they really don't. Her 'confession' bothers me. Those are not the words of a person trying to hide what they have done, and she's speaking to the Officer's so matter-of-factly, and nonchalantly....as if they will understand her point of view!?!? That's insane IMHO!

At the same time, the element of choice (and it's just an element IMO) in her 'self-medicating' bothers me too. But Alcoholism and Drug Addiction are also illnesses also. They are 'Mental Illnesses' . A disease of the body and mind. IMO

Whatever way the jury go, Julie Schenecker will never see the light of day again, IMO, and I'd rather see her placed in a facility where she can get treatment. Contrary to what some folk think, she will NOT get the help she needs in prison.

Just my tuppence....:truce:

She's certainly delusional if she believes she going to get the help she wants in prison. I think 'three hots and a cot' will be about all she receives for the rest of her life. That's all society "owes" someone who murders children, imo.
 

Jewels53

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When you are diagnosed with Bi-Polar is there always a number associated with it?
 

Whiteorchids

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I'm not leaning towards insanity, I'm there.
I can see her more easily self medicating because of the intense side effects she experienced, especially at Walter Reed.
I imagine when she became "Mentally disabled", she really spiraled. Another "label" that an individual is "defective".

It's obvious she has a very sick deteriorated mind.

I'm having trouble with comments she made after to PS, Interrogations, she had hair highlights when she supposedly didn't get out of bed.

She made her daughter french chicken her favorite according to post it note. Maybe because she knew it was her last meal before JS would execute her.

JS drove long miles through traffic to buy a gun at lock n load etc......

The timing of when all this went down after the emails to family looks bad IMHO

I believe she knew right from wrong and doesn't meet the Legal definition of insanity.
 

Whiteorchids

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I'm glad I'm not on this jury. What ever the outcome is I believe she will be locked up forever. I don't believe she will be on the streets again.

Either she's locked up in a prison or hospital. But rest assured she will be locked up.

Us taxpayers get to pay for her food, room and board.
 

Bernina

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It's obvious she has a very sick deteriorated mind.

I'm having trouble with comments she made after to PS, Interrogations, she had hair highlights when she supposedly didn't get out of bed.

She made her daughter french chicken her favorite according to post it note. Maybe because she knew it was her last meal before JS would execute her.

JS drove long miles through traffic to buy a gun at lock n load etc......

The timing of when all this went down after the emails to family looks bad IMHO

I believe she knew right from wrong and doesn't meet the Legal definition of insanity.

"Think outside the (rational) box", just like a schizoaffective person would.

She believed it was the "right" thing to do. Her justifications are not going to make any sense to a rational, normal person.

All anyone can do is "assume" what did this or that to tip her, or if it was snowballing for years. Even if she takes the stand, she would be "guarded" with her responses simply because her mind is in an irrational place. This "irrational place" is her norm, and she can't fathom why others don't "think" the same way. She has probably made statements and observations from this "place" in the past, and was rebuffed, criticized, had her "sanity" questioned, or put in a hospital. She has more to fear responding from this "place", than "pretending" she is "normal".

She does not have the capacity to get better, she will only degenerate into the abyss which is her "normal reality".
 

east2west

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I'm glad I'm not on this jury. What ever the outcome is I believe she will be locked up forever. I don't believe she will be on the streets again.

Either she's locked up in a prison or hospital. But rest assured she will be locked up.

Us taxpayers get to pay for her food, room and board.

And her psychotropics.

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shiloh42

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Myself, I believe she knew the difference between right and wrong, she just didn't care. So while I believe her to be mentally ill, she planned out and executed the murders, planned out the deception of "going to New York" to the carpool, planned out and left the nasty note for her husband, and knew the difference between right and wrong. Plus: There's no guarantee she'll be locked up for any significant length of time in a hospital: she could be released in 6 months.

This is going to be a long wait once this goes to the jury.
 

Whiteorchids

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"Think outside the (rational) box", just like a schizoaffective person would.

She believed it was the "right" thing to do. Her justifications are not going to make any sense to a rational, normal person.

All anyone can do is "assume" what did this or that to tip her, or if it was snowballing for years. Even if she takes the stand, she would be "guarded" with her responses simply because her mind is in an irrational place. This "irrational place" is her norm, and she can't fathom why others don't "think" the same way. She has probably made statements and observations from this "place" in the past, and was rebuffed, criticized, had her "sanity" questioned, or put in a hospital. She has more to fear responding from this "place", than "pretending" she is "normal".

She does not have the capacity to get better, she will only degenerate into the abyss which is her "normal reality".

With all those years of being treated for MI she still chose to drink alcohol, 10+ a day. She knew that was a big NO NO with meds and why but still chose to do so.

If a person drinks alcohol and chooses to drive and kills someone while doing so they are culpable at least here in Cali.

Even if they are alcoholics they are still culpable.

If She was insane how did she make French chicken? I can't even make French chicken and I'm not insane.
 

shiloh42

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Zuri, she is very mentally ill, but does know that murder is wrong. The defense is pushing the Andrea Yates scenario, but the defense has a stronger case for revenge and anger.

I wonder if the defense is still planning to call PS. Her first words to him after the murders wasn't, "Parker, I've saved the children from a terrible life." It was a very vengeful comment.

I missed that --- what were the first words to him? (Or do you mean the post-it note?)
 

Whiteorchids

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Myself, I believe she knew the difference between right and wrong, she just didn't care. So while I believe her to be mentally ill, she planned out and executed the murders, planned out the deception of "going to New York" to the carpool, planned out and left the nasty note for her husband, and knew the difference between right and wrong. Plus: There's no guarantee she'll be locked up for any significant length of time in a hospital: she could be released in 6 months.

This is going to be a long wait once this goes to the jury.

With the nature of the crimes and history. I highly doubt it. My Sister worked at Patton state hospital for the criminally insane in San Bernardino, CA she said JS would not get released if sent there.
 
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