GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #7

minor4th

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I'm married to someone in the Army- there are problems specific to this community, but there are also resources that are available. I'm not surprised that she & her husband were able to hide the depth of her problems, but she had a lot more choices available to her than many people. It's a tragedy, that no one intervened (realizing how sick she is), but she is responsible for her actions.


Respectfully, I disagree. I do not think she was entirely responsible for her actions because she was in the grip of such severe mental illness that she could not even understand what she was doing, much less appreciate the wrongfulness. Even after 3 years of being medicated and monitored, I still don't think she understands it.
 

thistle

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I appreciate that you are more compassionate than I am, as much as I believe that she is responsible, I think that the people around her, her husband, family, even neighbors, should have noticed how ill she was & what a danger she was to her children- hindsight is cruel & doesn't help anything.
 

minor4th

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I also just watched Parker's interview, and I do feel so badly for him. I kind of got the impression that he has not fully accepted and internalized his children's deaths. I worry about him because as a career military man, it might be hard for him to really tap into his grief and sorrow.
 

minor4th

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I appreciate that you are more compassionate than I am, as much as I believe that she is responsible, I think that the people around her, her husband, family, even neighbors, should have noticed how ill she was & what a danger she was to her children- hindsight is cruel & doesn't help anything.


I know it's an easy conclusion to come to, but having had family members with severe mental illness and personalities like Parker's (his default MO is to take care of business and carry on) - it is often so hard for family members to really understand mental illness and to know how to respond to it. Julie was hiding a lot of her symptoms and keeping secrets, and her family didn't know and didn't understand what to look for - they gave her privacy and didn't want to intrude, not because they didn't care but because they didn't understand that she needed to be monitored and checked on.

I also think it would have been helpful if they had involved her in their discussions about her treatment and how to fix it. I think it would have been helpful for them to ask her what she needs and what she thinks would help her get better. But since they had been dealing with her mental illness for so many years, they treated her like a child and thought their ways of handling things were best for Julie without really asking her. I don't fault them for that because I think they were doing what they thought would be helpful.

One of the big problems that can lead to these kinds of tragedies is the severe stigma associated with mental illness. It makes it very difficult for the ill to seek the support and care they really need, and it leaves family members in the dark because they don't understand it.
 

thistle

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& again, this is also me, but I have to hold a mother who kills her older children even more reprehensible than one who kills an infant or young child (who she might not have bonded with). Her children were young adults, w/ distinct personalities (that she obviously clashed with, because she couldn't control them)-what would their lives have been like, if she hadn't murdered them? What was their relationship w/ their father? They had friends, they had a future, before her psychopathy decided to terminate their lives. Yes, she's pathetic & sick, but that does not trump their right to life. Every time I think about this case, I cry.
 

azmama

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Thanks Bar Bee Jay

Part 2 was very inspirational - you can tell he's definitely going to be successful in all that he does (to quote JS).....he's very connected to the families and kids who were in their circle still.

His revenge will be enjoying his life - it's clear that he is.


WELCOME TO WS BAR BEE JAY!

I love this, I know it is not the same as having your children here with you. That said, it is wonderful. I have a very close friend who's son passed in high school (football related, not violent crime or anything like that), he was their only child. I know they mourned, and do still, it has only been a few years, but they include their son's friends as extended family, there are scholarships, they support his football team, it is the second best thing. They chose to live and celebrate his life, I hope that Parker does that too.
 

thistle

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I also just watched Parker's interview, and I do feel so badly for him. I kind of got the impression that he has not fully accepted and internalized his children's deaths. I worry about him because as a career military man, it might be hard for him to really tap into his grief and sorrow.

I also feel for him, my husband is career military, & because of this, has spent a lot of time away from our children-he loves them, thinks about them constantly, & would do anything for them- I can't even imagine how hard it is for PS to miss & mourn for his children. There are a lot of soldiers who sacrifice a great deal for their families, in many ways.
 

thistle

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She shot (at different times) her 2 children in the mouth & the head. I may have felt differently about her, if she had killed herself after that, but she didn't. I have zero sympathy for her, she's ill, but also entirely selfish.
 

newone

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I just read the journal for the first time and now I really do think she should have been found not guilt by reason of insanity. She was completely out of her mind when she bought the gun and thereafter seemed to drift in and out of reality -- more out than in.

I thought the jury got it right according to the high standard for legal insanity but after hearing her speak after verdict and now reading this journal, I've changed my mind - I do think the defense produced clear and convincing evidence of insanity and the state did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she was not insane at the time she killed the kids.


It's unsettling for me too...I was sooo confident of M1...until I heard her speak and now with the journal oh boy.

Have we figured out the mystery of who James is ((page 7 of her journal))??

I wish now that she would have been encouraged by her DT to testify.
 

Nymeria

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turaj

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It's unsettling for me too...I was sooo confident of M1...until I heard her speak and now with the journal oh boy.

Have we figured out the mystery of who James is ((page 7 of her journal))??

I wish now that she would have been encouraged by her DT to testify.

I don't know who james is but in thinking about that statement at the end where she basically way saying she is serving her country..some references to when she took the military oath and how the kids were in such a great spot etc. and the journal...I wonder if she had gotten on the stand and starting weaving tales if at least one of the jurors maybe the one that was leaning toward insanity would have stuck with it....I think though the most would have been a hung jury...doubt they would get all 12 to think she was insane.
 

minor4th

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It's unsettling for me too...I was sooo confident of M1...until I heard her speak and now with the journal oh boy.



Have we figured out the mystery of who James is ((page 7 of her journal))??



I wish now that she would have been encouraged by her DT to testify.


I thought maybe it was a bible reference? But that whole page is a complete word salad so it might mean nothing at all.
 

Nore

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Hi, I just sent all evening trying to catch up. I was sick and missed most of trial. Can anyone tell me, did Parker bury the children or cremate? I am hoping he buried them..TIA. :seeya:
 

Ranchgirl

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So extremely sad. We, as a society, really need to find better ways to care for our mentally ill. This woman is to be pitied, not despised. That should not be read to take anything at all away from the extraordinary tragedy of two young teenagers who lost their lives, nor am I discounting in any way the horrendous impact this has had on so many lives. But there's a reason we have an insanity defense in this country - people who commit horrific acts when they are extremely ill like Julie Schenecker should not be treated by the judicial system as equal to a murderer who plans his acts with full knowledge and the benefit of rational thought.


Agree...wish Florida had the guilty but insane ( vice versa?). She is so ill...just hope she gets the help she needs. Cannot imagine how she is going to deal with what she did. She is living in a personal prison far worse than any structural one.



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newone

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Agree...wish Florida had the guilty but insane ( vice versa?). She is so ill...just hope she gets the help she needs. Cannot imagine how she is going to deal with what she did. She is living in a personal prison far worse than any structural one.



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that would have been the best .... guilty but insane
 

wendiesan

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that would have been the best .... guilty but insane

And what do you think the penalty should be for a woman who killed two young people with malice aforethought?

When did she not know what she was doing?
When she bought the gun? When she fired the first bullet into the windshield of her car? The second into her son? The third? http://tbo.com/news/crime/schenecker-describes-shooting-her-kids-in-recorded-statement-20140507/
Did she not know what she was doing when she staged her daughter's corpse to appear to be smiling? http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/14/ng.01.html

And what stopped her from shooting herself as she claimed she intended to do? http://tbo.com/news/crime/schenecker-describes-shooting-her-kids-in-recorded-statement-20140507/

When a person is a danger to her/himself or to others, what should be done?
Does everyone else have to lose their home, their friends, their futures and their lives to make her feel better?

Scheneker's two children did not lose their lives.
Their lives were stolen from them and thrown away like so much garbage by Scheneker.
What do you see as justice for them in all this?

This case is so sad.
 

newone

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And what do you think the penalty should be for a woman who killed two young people with malice aforethought?

When did she not know what she was doing?
When she bought the gun? When she fired the first bullet into the windshield of her car? The second into her son? The third? http://tbo.com/news/crime/schenecker-describes-shooting-her-kids-in-recorded-statement-20140507/
Did she not know what she was doing when she staged her daughter's corpse to appear to be smiling? http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/14/ng.01.html

And what stopped her from shooting herself as she claimed she intended to do? http://tbo.com/news/crime/schenecker-describes-shooting-her-kids-in-recorded-statement-20140507/

When a person is a danger to her/himself or to others, what should be done?
Does everyone else have to lose their home, their friends, their futures and their lives to make her feel better?

Scheneker's two children did not lose their lives.
Their lives were stolen from them and thrown away like so much garbage by Scheneker.
What do you see as justice for them in all this?

This case is so sad.[/QUOTE]

bbm that's the bottom line

There is so much wiggle room here in this case, like you pointed out there was a preponderance of evidence pointing to planning.....yet her ramblings in both her journal and in her final speech indicate that planning was done by someone who appeared very unwell.

The DT did present very 'dry' evidence and I do believe that if JS had spoken we would have had a better idea of her mental state.

The true tragedy here of course is the murder of two lovely young teens who did not deserve to be killed by their very ill mother and the truth is that she should have not been untreated for so long when she represented such a threat. I do believe that she was grossly underestimated by those closest to her including her therapy team. It's not a fault of others it is just so sad that her danger to others was so grossly underestimated.

There is absolutely no excuse for her killing her children ..... I agree.

I do believe that there are many who deservedly are feeling that they should have/could have been more proactive in her therapeutic care.

Incidentally I do wholeheartedly believe in the Crazy Like a Fox aspect too. I have even seen brilliance in planning by dementia patients.......amazing how ''mentally disabled''/ill people can outwit so called healthy able folks. It's frustrating because we know JS to have been brilliant in the past.....but her star is fading and she used her power for evil in this case. The concern for all of us is could she do this again? Needless to say she needs to be locked up because of her instability and potential threat to the public as well as her crimes.

Here's the rub: did she commit the crimes because she was mentally ill ? -- I think we can all agree that there is a huge amount of that....the vengeance factor --- absolutely. This becomes such a chicken and egg argument for sure.

A healthy person would have handled the frustration so differently. She wasn't healthy.
 

wendiesan

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True.
Intelligence and craft does not preclude mental illness.
 

claudicici

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The video of her buying the gun proved to me that she is not insane.If she was truly insane she could not have "acted" normal during that transaction.She was heavily medicated when she wrote in the journal.I think her mental illness,while incredibly sad and horrible to deal with is no more or less than 1000 of others that struggle but continue to care for their children,1000 of others that have far less of a lavish lifestyle,far less support than JS,yet they manage to live with their mental anguish.All these terrible things she said about her children,she is such a selfish and horrible person,I'm sorry but I even had more compassion with Casey Anthony (she had to live with Cindy) than with this woman.I don't buy her insanity for a minute.
 

azmama

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The DT did present very 'dry' evidence and I do believe that if JS had spoken we would have had a better idea of her mental state.

Respectfully snipped.

But this statement begs the question, because her mental state now may not be the same as what her mental state was at the time of the murders.

I can imagine that killing your children, if at the time seems like a "good idea", she was so very angry, messed up, she had made a lot of poor choices (drinking, gambling, messing with her meds, not allowing help from her family) so it may have made sense to her to kill her children. But how does that affect a person three and a half years later, while all you get to do it sit in a jail cell (or the equivalent) and think about what you did? I am sure in retrospect, the same act is not looking like such a great idea.

I think that could "ruin" someone mentally, if they were not already ruined before, send them over the edge. I don't know if that is the right word, but I hope it conveys my thoughts about it properly.

I thought that the video of her in the gun shop was very damning too, she appeared to be a woman without a care in the world. She planned the entire thing, I just can't get past that. She didn't forget, she didn't get that jumbled, she calculatingly murdered her children with a chilling calmness, one at a time, that just can't be overlooked, not in my opinion anyway.
 
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