GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #9 *arrests*

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TTF14 said:
I think you're right? So unless he gets death, there is no more bargaining with him I would assume? If he gets death maybe they can get him to flip and reduce his sentence to life? Would they be allowed to do that if a jury decided on death?
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Yes, think if no death sentence then life without parole is only option. Also, as I read the law, if the jury goes with death, it is only a recommendation and the judge can still decide to sentence to Life. Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
 
Weki said:
Knowing the Adelsons ordered this hit, there's no way SG is deserving of DP. That's why this feels more like a political decision than anything else to me. JMO.
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Also, the State seemed to be reaching on a few of the aggravating factors in the hearing this morning (gang membership; atrocious heinous & cruel) which the judge did not seem to buy. I think they are probably seeking death for leverage. JMO.
 
TTF14 said:
I think you're right? So unless he gets death, there is no more bargaining with him I would assume? If he gets death maybe they can get him to flip and reduce his sentence to life? Would they be allowed to do that if a jury decided on death?
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Another member yesterday pointed to a statute that appears to give power to the State to mitigate sentences when a prisoner provides substantial and meaningful cooperation. Certainly, at this point the law of Florida only allows two outcomes (Death/Life without Parole). It would make sense to me for the State to have some authority to mitigate a sentence. After all, the Governor has clemency and pardon powers that supersede all sentencing.

By the way, I happened across this interesting article last night. It isn't directly relevant, but is interesting to see the way a defendant's mind works: I Wish I’d Pleaded Guilty to Murder
 
DOC houses inmates according to their classifications. They have full jurisdiction once someone is convicted and put in their custody. The state's attorney's office doesn't really have much say in that determination. Again, I'm no expert but this is my understanding. For example, the sheriffs have jurisdiction on how an inmate is transported in and out of the courthouse. Whether he's shackled, sat down, whether he can stand etc. That's a security decision that the sheriffs make and the judge or the DA or defense has no say so. That's their jurisdiction. It's the same with DOC, I believe. SG can't flip now. That time is passed. He's in the jury's hands now. Once they hand down a verdict he's off to DOC custody. At that point, he has no incentive to cooperate. There's nothing in it for him.

KM is the only one with an incentive to cooperate right now. She may be scared now that she was so close to life in prison and may have a re-think. Here's hoping.

Otherwise, the Adelsons are walking!! There's no question that without KM's cooperation the state will not indict the Adelsons.
 
Weki said:
There's no question that without KM's cooperation the state will not indict the Adelsons.
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(rsbm)

Well, I think there actually is a question about that, and hopefully they still will. It would just be more of a slam dunk if KM comes to her senses. I think she was really hoodwinked by her attorneys.
 
There are 3 groups of criminals involved: 1) foot soldiers (King Tato and Tuto), 2) alleged intermediaries (Queen Katherine and ex-boyfriend Charly), and 3) alleged beneficiaries and financiers (Princess Wendi and Queen Mother). The tidal wave goes up from group 1 to group 2 to group 3.

Thus far, The State of Florida is done with group 1. King Tato and Tuto are convicted and in the book.

The key Group 2 member Queen Katherine got saved by some Tallahassee jurors who are perhaps illiterate. Unfortunately, the leaky news media always leak the wrong things at the wrong time. We might never know why it was a mistrial. If Tuto trades the death penalty for 20 years plus information leading to Queen Katherine’s conviction, then the mistrial deadlock could be untangled.

In the meantime, Queen Katherine may have committed several misprisions while in the witness stand. Multiple insurance, tax, and payroll frauds may have been committed by multiple persons, such as Queen Katherine and ex-boyfriend Charly. These felonies should be added in the balance for good measure. These could be leverages towards the group 2 members.

However, it is clear nothing could / should happen to group 3 members until some group 2 members got convicted! The State’s case is known by all. Markus is so well prepared to take it as given. The faster the State of Florida gets some conviction against Queen Katherine, the sooner the State could move to ex-boyfriend Charly. Then, the upper echelon of the alleged conspiracy to commit murder may be in the scope of the prosecution. In Florida, there is “no statute of limitations for crimes resulting in death nor for any crime that would warrant life imprisonment” (Florida Code Section 775.15).

Do not expect the State to make any move until more elements add to what is already known. Let us pray, wait and see.
 
Weki said:
... Otherwise, the Adelsons are walking!! There's no question that without KM's cooperation the state will not indict the Adelsons.
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I would actually put substantial money on a bet that the state will indict CA with or without KM's cooperation. Willie Meggs, the former chief prosecutor wasn't willing to pull the string, but GC is in charge now and she has more than enough evidence to indict CA (and possibly DA). Many prosecutors (including some from the Tallahassee office) are on record opining that they've achieved convictions in other cases with less evidence than they have right now against the Adelsons. I have no doubt that GC desperately wants more evidence, but I also have no doubt that she'll indict at least CA no matter what transpires. It's the right move morally and clearly the right move politically, given the public support for prosecution against the Adelsons.

Also, KM's own testimony under oath will be useful against the Adelsons in a future trial. KM's ridiculous claim that the cash deposits she made were all from tips can be soundly impeached now and her admission that her employment was a "favor" from Charlie also is significant. Furthermore, her assessment that she now believes CA was responsible for the murder was made under oath and is not hearsay. The defense will scream bloody murder, but there should be opportunities to publish that testimony in the next trial -- not as proof of CA's guilt, but relevant to KM's credibility. No matter what they say in public, I assure you that the Adelson legal team understands that the case against them is stronger now than it was before.
 
King Tato's testimony is to the benefit of Tuto. The defense will say "if they were equally guilty, why is King Tato walking alive and Tuto will be put to death?" Then, the Tallahassee jurors who are perhaps illiterate would say "that is right. Let us give Tuto few years also." Thereafter, Tuto is not going to cooperate because he wants not to incriminate Katherine. Sad.
 
TTF14 said:
(rsbm)

Well, I think there actually is a question about that, and hopefully they still will. It would just be more of a slam dunk if KM comes to her senses. I think she was really hoodwinked by her attorneys.
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Respectfully, it's been 3 years, yes? How come no one from the Adelson family has been indicted yet? Based on the former DA's interview on the OMDB podcast, it's clear he didn't feel like there was enough evidence for a conviction. What motive could he possibly have for not indicting if he thought he had enough? Given the public outrage and knowledge of the Adelsons involvement. I'm inferring that the current DA feels the same way since he hasn't indicted either. So it seems to me state is waiting for more evidence - they NEED KM to convict.
 
I think KM should be forced to go up on that stand and beg for the life of the father of her children. She's the reason he's up there!

ETA: lol "children of her father" I meant father of her children....I'm dyslexic on Mondays!
 
vislaw said:
I would actually put substantial money on a bet that the state will indict CA with or without KM's cooperation. Willie Meggs, the former chief prosecutor wasn't willing to pull the string, but GC is in charge now and she has more than enough evidence to indict CA (and possibly DA). Many prosecutors (including some from the Tallahassee office) are on record opining that they've achieved convictions in other cases with less evidence than they have right now against the Adelsons. I have no doubt that GC desperately wants more evidence, but I also have no doubt that she'll indict at least CA no matter what transpires. It's the right move morally and clearly the right move politically, given the public support for prosecution against the Adelsons.

Also, KM's own testimony under oath will be useful against the Adelsons in a future trial. KM's ridiculous claim that the cash deposits she made were all from tips can be soundly impeached now and her admission that her employment was a "favor" from Charlie also is significant. Furthermore, her assessment that she now believes CA was responsible for the murder was made under oath and is not hearsay. The defense will scream bloody murder, but there should be opportunities to publish that testimony in the next trial -- not as proof of CA's guilt, but relevant to KM's credibility. No matter what they say in public, I assure you that the Adelson legal team understands that the case against them is stronger now than it was before.
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But KM is speculating that Charlie was involved. She's denying any involvement and knowledge of a hit. She denies that she was paid for her involvement. If she's convicted and is subpoenaed to testify she's not going to be a cooperative witness. She will be hostile towards prosecution.

DA's office doesn't make decisions based on public support or morality. They need clear and convincing evidence. They have rules of evidence that they have to abide by. They have a heavy burden.
 
vislaw said:
I would actually put substantial money on a bet that the state will indict CA with or without KM's cooperation. Willie Meggs, the former chief prosecutor wasn't willing to pull the string, but GC is in charge now and she has more than enough evidence to indict CA (and possibly DA). Many prosecutors (including some from the Tallahassee office) are on record opining that they've achieved convictions in other cases with less evidence than they have right now against the Adelsons. I have no doubt that GC desperately wants more evidence, but I also have no doubt that she'll indict at least CA no matter what transpires. It's the right move morally and clearly the right move politically, given the public support for prosecution against the Adelsons.

Also, KM's own testimony under oath will be useful against the Adelsons in a future trial. KM's ridiculous claim that the cash deposits she made were all from tips can be soundly impeached now and her admission that her employment was a "favor" from Charlie also is significant. Furthermore, her assessment that she now believes CA was responsible for the murder was made under oath and is not hearsay. The defense will scream bloody murder, but there should be opportunities to publish that testimony in the next trial -- not as proof of CA's guilt, but relevant to KM's credibility. No matter what they say in public, I assure you that the Adelson legal team understands that the case against them is stronger now than it was before.
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Two points: I think Willie Meggs (State Attorney for 2nd Judicial District in Fla) was replaced by Jack Campbell, not by GC. So I think Campbell is now the decisionmaker. Also, if there is a trial against CA, a witnesses's (KM's) testimony about their belief that he is guilty, will almost certainly be objected to by CA's attorney and ruled inadmissible. JMO.
 
Weki said:
Respectfully, it's been 3 years, yes? How come no one from the Adelson family has been indicted yet? Based on the former DA's interview on the OMDB podcast, it's clear he didn't feel like there was enough evidence for a conviction. What motive could he possibly have for not indicting if he thought he had enough? Given the public outrage and knowledge of the Adelsons involvement. I'm inferring that the current DA feels the same way since he hasn't indicted either. So it seems to me state is waiting for more evidence - they NEED KM to convict.
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There's more evidence now, though. For instance, June U. testified under oath that Charlie keeps his cash stapled in bundles of $1,000.
 
clearskies1 said:
Two points: I think Willie Meggs (State Attorney for 2nd Judicial District in Fla) was replaced by Jack Campbell, not by GC. So I think Campbell is now the decisionmaker. Also, if there is a trial against CA, a witnesses's (KM's) testimony about their belief that he is guilty, will almost certainly be objected to by CA's attorney and ruled inadmissible. JMO.
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That's a good point. So that statement may not even come into play at all.
 
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