GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 *arrests* #12

[katiecoolady]

I don't think the boys will have to wait until they're 18 before they can google their father and find out what really happened. Unless the Adelsons are keeping them away from all news outlets, computers and talkative friends, they'll be able to learn details about their family history. If they inherited their father's immense intelligence, they'll easily be able to put 2 and 2 together.

Yes and in addition, likely the greatest tragedy in this whole thing, is that Dan's boys have been sentenced to a lifetime of survivor guilt over the murder of their father--who ALL indicate loved them completely and was a devoted and excellent father to them. They will discover that their father was murdered for the "benefit" of THEM, which of course makes no sense. It served zero benefit to them. It was for the narcissistic tantrums of their mother and grandmother as NO ONE said his being out of their lives would benefit THEM. It's hard to grow up without one of your parents--I lost my Mom just a little older than those boys were. It stays with you your whole life and affects you in ways you learn as you age. This will haunt those boys sunconsciously and consciously eventually. And that's what was given them by their own mother and grandmother and uncle. Imagine that legacy.

 

[katiecoolady]

Justice for Dan Markel!

New evidence in the form of “Charles Adelson I-Cloud, 1 Blue Ray-R” came in from the State Attorneys today, June 29th 2022. See picture attached.

And more "news" are expected the coming weeks prior the 29th of July.
Justice is walking slowly but surely!

It is hoped that ALL co-conspirators will be indicted and convicted as evidences avail.

Thanks for sharing this!

Hopefully there will be more info in that cloud that points to his other two (at least) co-conspirators.

Dang, if only Whatsapp retained data...

 

[BobbyLee]

Slightly backtracking here: When WA confidentially told LaCasse that CA had been looking into a hitman, what was the rest (if any) of that conversation as conveyed to LaCasse? Did WA tell CA it was a bad idea/good idea/offensive to even look into a hitman/say nothing/ignore CA? It's obvious she knew CA wasn't joking.

My thought is she gave him the silent go-ahead, she would continue to feed CA info about DM''s itineraries but there was an implied agreement to leave her out of the gritty details.

Below is one of many stories on it. The stories never seem to say what the next part of the conversation was...

“On July 13, 2014, Wendi and I were speaking and she asked me if she could share something with me confidentially,” Lacasse testified. “I told her sure. She said that Charlie had explored all options to take care of the problem and that he had looked into having Professor Markel killed. It would cost about $15,000.”

Connecting the dots: How a 6-year-old FBI recording unlocked the Markel murder case

A major development in the long-running investigation into the 2014 murder of a prominent Florida State University law professor is being credited to an eight-year-old FBI tape.

news.wgcu.org

 

[Mariposa]

Slightly backtracking here: When WA confidentially told LaCasse that CA had been looking into a hitman, what was the rest (if any) of that conversation as conveyed to LaCasse? Did WA tell CA it was a bad idea/good idea/offensive to even look into a hitman/say nothing/ignore CA? It's obvious she knew CA wasn't joking.


Below is one of many stories on it. The stories never seem to say what the next part of the conversation was...

“On July 13, 2014, Wendi and I were speaking and she asked me if she could share something with me confidentially,” Lacasse testified. “I told her sure. She said that Charlie had explored all options to take care of the problem and that he had looked into having Professor Markel killed. It would cost about $15,000.”

Connecting the dots: How a 6-year-old FBI recording unlocked the Markel murder case

A major development in the long-running investigation into the 2014 murder of a prominent Florida State University law professor is being credited to an eight-year-old FBI tape.

news.wgcu.org

My recollection might be rusty but I seem to remember JL was asked what the rest of the conversation was, at least one of the two times he was on the stand.

I think he said WA said that and then the subject was just dropped and the two of them continued talking about their relationship issues.

 

[vislaw]

I don't think the boys will have to wait until they're 18 before they can google their father and find out what really happened. Unless the Adelsons are keeping them away from all news outlets, computers and talkative friends, they'll be able to learn details about their family history. If they inherited their father's immense intelligence, they'll easily be able to put 2 and 2 together.

There are huge psychological factors at play here and as much as I hope fervently the boys will be able to "find out what really happened" I'm not terribly optimistic given the mother and grandmother that have been indoctrinating them for years. I ran across this article discussing OJ's kids and whether they believe he is guilty of killing their mom. The evidence of the Juice's guilt is so overwhelming (hello Bruno Magli shoes). Nevertheless, it appears both older kids firmly believe in their father's innocence and if Sydney's ex-boyfriend is to be believed, she doesn't accept his guilt either.

I personally went through a bitter divorce with a young son whose mother did a number of truly despicable things hoping to turn him against me. He was under enormous pressure and eventually took his own life leaving a note that broke my heart. It gave me an appreciation of how much a mother can screw up a child. Unless the boys break away from their mother/grandmother emotionally, I expect the facts and evidence will be much less important to them than maintaining the approval and affection of WA and DA.

 

[Sherubbian]

Has the contents of his i-cloud been published anywhere?

In the Case-A of Magbanua, the older version of Charles Adelson's i Cloud was sealed from public view on 5/21/2019 due to protected HIPPA information (see picture attached). Hence, this updated version would be also sealed for the same reason in the Case-B of Charles Adelson.

The Answer To Demand For Discovery dated 6/17/2022 already lists the Charles Adelson's i Cloud. This Amended Answer dated 6/29/2022 is very important because it implies that newly available and/or updated piece of relevant information (i.e. evidence) has been included recently.

 

[clearskies1]

There are huge psychological factors at play here and as much as I hope fervently the boys will be able to "find out what really happened" I'm not terribly optimistic given the mother and grandmother that have been indoctrinating them for years. I ran across this article discussing OJ's kids and whether they believe he is guilty of killing their mom. The evidence of the Juice's guilt is so overwhelming (hello Bruno Magli shoes). Nevertheless, it appears both older kids firmly believe in their father's innocence and if Sydney's ex-boyfriend is to be believed, she doesn't accept his guilt either.

I personally went through a bitter divorce with a young son whose mother did a number of truly despicable things hoping to turn him against me. He was under enormous pressure and eventually took his own life leaving a note that broke my heart. It gave me an appreciation of how much a mother can screw up a child. Unless the boys break away from their mother/grandmother emotionally, I expect the facts and evidence will be much less important to them than maintaining the approval and affection of WA and DA.

I'm so sorry vislaw. So sorry. I completely understand what you're saying and agree with you.

 

[katiecoolady]

There are huge psychological factors at play here and as much as I hope fervently the boys will be able to "find out what really happened" I'm not terribly optimistic given the mother and grandmother that have been indoctrinating them for years. I ran across this article discussing OJ's kids and whether they believe he is guilty of killing their mom. The evidence of the Juice's guilt is so overwhelming (hello Bruno Magli shoes). Nevertheless, it appears both older kids firmly believe in their father's innocence and if Sydney's ex-boyfriend is to be believed, she doesn't accept his guilt either.

I personally went through a bitter divorce with a young son whose mother did a number of truly despicable things hoping to turn him against me. He was under enormous pressure and eventually took his own life leaving a note that broke my heart. It gave me an appreciation of how much a mother can screw up a child. Unless the boys break away from their mother/grandmother emotionally, I expect the facts and evidence will be much less important to them than maintaining the approval and affection of WA and DA.

Very sorry for the loss of your son.

These things are so complex as you say. I watched another trial--Dirk Greineder--who killed his wife and their children sided with him completely against overwhelming evidence. One even lied on the stand to protect his father. Having lost one parent, it's extremely threatening to think about losing the remaining one.

 

[katiecoolady]

My recollection might be rusty but I seem to remember JL was asked what the rest of the conversation was, at least one of the two times he was on the stand.

I think he said WA said that and then the subject was just dropped and the two of them continued talking about their relationship issues.

I just rewatched his testimony from the first trial and that's exactly what he said--that this detail was dropped in the middle of their relationship issues discussion--right around the time they broke up. It does make me wonder what context Wendi brought that up in. The defense atty asked him if he thought that was some kind of threat to HIM. He didn't take it that way. It is strange that she dropped that nugget to him at all, much less in that moment. It's like she wanted him to know it for some reason, in case.

 

[katiecoolady]

In the Case-A of Magbanua, the older version of Charles Adelson's i Cloud was sealed from public view on 5/21/2019 due to protected HIPPA information (see picture attached). Hence, this updated version would be also sealed for the same reason in the Case-B of Charles Adelson.

The Answer To Demand For Discovery dated 6/17/2022 already lists the Charles Adelson's i Cloud. This Amended Answer dated 6/29/2022 is very important because it implies that newly available and/or updated piece of relevant information (i.e. evidence) has been included recently.

Could it possibly be that it's information they couldn't use in previous trials? I wonder how much of that there is that will come in from hundreds of hours of wiretaps between all of them.

 

[clearskies1]

Could it possibly be that it's information they couldn't use in previous trials? I wonder how much of that there is that will come in from hundreds of hours of wiretaps between all of them.

Wondering if it was listed in the Answers to Demand for Discovery in the Magbanua and Garcia cases. I haven't checked.

 

[jbc]

anybody here familiar with the prison system that might have insight into what Charlie A. is experiencing these days?
What level security is he in?

Years ago I was given a tour of a wing of Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary - a medium security prison.
I was amazed by the density of prisoners in the wing. Their cell doors were open and they were hanging in the "hallway."
There was no escaping being surrounded by and in the view of other prisoners 24/7.
Must be a big change for Charlie's hang in Ft. Lauderdale.

Thoughts by people here that may be in the know?

 

[Bongo]

anybody here familiar with the prison system that might have insight into what Charlie A. is experiencing these days?
What level security is he in?

Years ago I was given a tour of a wing of Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary - a medium security prison.
I was amazed by the density of prisoners in the wing. Their cell doors were open and they were hanging in the "hallway."
There was no escaping being surrounded by and in the view of other prisoners 24/7.
Must be a big change for Charlie's hang in Ft. Lauderdale.

Thoughts by people here that may be in the know?

In general, jails have worse conditions than prisons. Jails are intended for pre-trial detainees, and individuals serving sentences of one year or less, usually for misdemeanor offenses. Jails are transitory, full of angst, and offer less programming.

Prisons, on the other hand, are intended for longer stays. They house people with felony convictions, usually involving sentences of more than a year. Prisons offer more stability, and more opportunities to participate in programs and work.

These are generalities and reflect the intention of each type of facility, there are always exceptions.

 

[Sherubbian]

Could it possibly be that it's information they couldn't use in previous trials? I wonder how much of that there is that will come in from hundreds of hours of wiretaps between all of them.

It is expected that we will see new developments in the coming weeks leading up to the 7/29/2022 sentencing of Magbanua and Case Management of Charles Adelson. These will be good developments because they are signs of progress toward “Justice for Dan Markel”.

The State may list 100 Category A witnesses but will call only 10 during trial, depending on time allocation and necessity. In the same vein, the raw data of Charles Adelson’s i-Cloud are furnished to the counsel of the defense during the discovery process but only a small portion of it, if any, is meant to be discussed in open court. All pieces of evidence will be made available to all involved during the process, including the Judge’s clerks and the Jury, for examination on demand.

Charles Adelson's i Cloud raw data was listed, and sealed from public view, in the Magbanua discovery. The picture of the Amended Discovery dated 6/29/2022, which I posted in #754, shows that these 6/29/2022 items are “replacements (plural)” for what were previously disclosed from “Magbanua” case. Hence, they must contain “new pieces” of evidence.

Of course, “new pieces” of evidence do not necessarily mean “fresh evidences” (as what you are alluding to, I presume). From 2011, Apple iCloud resides on Amazon Web Services and Microsoft Azure; and also extended to Google Cloud Platform since 2016. Apple iCloud is a generic name for multiple services such as iCloud Photo, iCloud email, iCloud Drive etc. May be these are “newly disclosed” data from another platform or from another iCloud service not previously explored.

The iCloud evidence could be dated 2016 (not very fresh) but it availed to the State Attorneys only in June 2022 (relatively new for the investigation). This is possible because the privacy disclosures of Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are arcane.

The criminal procedure gives the Judge the ability to define the scope of searches and seizures. Hence, a Judge might withhold the searches and seizures of some parts of the iCloud to protect the defendant from potential government fishing expedition until the investigators provide compelling benefits for justice to be served.

Also, Web based iCloud emails are easier to seize than iCloud Server emails. Web emails transited through multiple Web services across TCP/IP. The FBI could just seize the data from the weaker man-in-the-middle (since they are already disclosed to a third party) rather than fighting the privacy terms of the big 3.

I am just speculating as I am also curious. What could be the evidence worthiness of the Charles Adelson’s iCloud “new contents” for them to deserve a one page addendum to Answer to Demand For Discovery?

 

[KidonGadol]

In general, jails have worse conditions than prisons. Jails are intended for pre-trial detainees, and individuals serving sentences of one year or less, usually for misdemeanor offenses. Jails are transitory, full of angst, and offer less programming.

Prisons, on the other hand, are intended for longer stays. They house people with felony convictions, usually involving sentences of more than a year. Prisons offer more stability, and more opportunities to participate in programs and work.

These are generalities and reflect the intention of each type of facility, there are always exceptions.

If you listen to some of the phone calls from Dave Tronnes (Ytube) and listen out for the background noise you realise what sort of madhouse that particular FL jail is .
Scott Reisch on Crimetalk made the point a while back that Fed prisons tend to be more organised and comfortable than state prisons as you don't have contract caterers trying to cut back on the rations (many state prisons are run by contract operators ). CJA won't get a choice - he'll be in the FL state system. Rivera for example wrote a letter to GC asking not to be moved back from AZ where he is at the moment .

 

[katiecoolady]

anybody here familiar with the prison system that might have insight into what Charlie A. is experiencing these days?
What level security is he in?

Years ago I was given a tour of a wing of Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary - a medium security prison.
I was amazed by the density of prisoners in the wing. Their cell doors were open and they were hanging in the "hallway."
There was no escaping being surrounded by and in the view of other prisoners 24/7.
Must be a big change for Charlie's hang in Ft. Lauderdale.

Thoughts by people here that may be in the know?

Good question.

Charlie is in the jail system right now. Leon County--ironically he's back in Tallahassee where they were trying to break free from. I hope they all 3 end up back there one day.

What I want to know is has Donna tried to visit him--or any of them? I doubt Wendi would.

And as an aside- I can see the Lewisburg Pen tower from my back patio (from a distance!). And a former warden is my next door neighbor.

 

[katiecoolady]

It is expected that we will see new developments in the coming weeks leading up to the 7/29/2022 sentencing of Magbanua and Case Management of Charles Adelson. These will be good developments because they are signs of progress toward “Justice for Dan Markel”.

The State may list 100 Category A witnesses but will call only 10 during trial, depending on time allocation and necessity. In the same vein, the raw data of Charles Adelson’s i-Cloud are furnished to the counsel of the defense during the discovery process but only a small portion of it, if any, is meant to be discussed in open court. All pieces of evidence will be made available to all involved during the process, including the Judge’s clerks and the Jury, for examination on demand.

Charles Adelson's i Cloud raw data was listed, and sealed from public view, in the Magbanua discovery. The picture of the Amended Discovery dated 6/29/2022, which I posted in #754, shows that these 6/29/2022 items are “replacements (plural)” for what were previously disclosed from “Magbanua” case. Hence, they must contain “new pieces” of evidence.

Of course, “new pieces” of evidence do not necessarily mean “fresh evidences” (as what you are alluding to, I presume). From 2011, Apple iCloud resides on Amazon Web Services and Microsoft Azure; and also extended to Google Cloud Platform since 2016. Apple iCloud is a generic name for multiple services such as iCloud Photo, iCloud email, iCloud Drive etc. May be these are “newly disclosed” data from another platform or from another iCloud service not previously explored.

The iCloud evidence could be dated 2016 (not very fresh) but it availed to the State Attorneys only in June 2022 (relatively new for the investigation). This is possible because the privacy disclosures of Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are arcane.

The criminal procedure gives the Judge the ability to define the scope of searches and seizures. Hence, a Judge might withhold the searches and seizures of some parts of the iCloud to protect the defendant from potential government fishing expedition until the investigators provide compelling benefits for justice to be served.

Also, Web based iCloud emails are easier to seize than iCloud Server emails. Web emails transited through multiple Web services across TCP/IP. The FBI could just seize the data from the weaker man-in-the-middle (since they are already disclosed to a third party) rather than fighting the privacy terms of the big 3.

I am just speculating as I am also curious. What could be the evidence worthiness of the Charles Adelson’s iCloud “new contents” for them to deserve a one page addendum to Answer to Demand For Discovery?

Thank you for this detailed reply. Now I'm even more curious.

I'm hoping so much more will come in this trial to implicate Wendi and Donna from their phone calls. My suspicion is that Wendi kept most of hers to Whatsapp. She may end up being the smartest of them all in terms of shielding herself.

 

[AlferdPacker]

Evidence is repeatedly re-declared in discovery even if it's been previously disclosed, for various reasons. We don't know that there's anything new regarding this item. Where new evidence exists, it is pretty obvious.

 

[katiecoolady]

I listened to a podcast yesterday with a "legal roundtable" discussion on this case. A defense attorney was speculating about a possible defense for Charlie. That he admits hiring the hitmen to "rough up" DM, but not to kill him and that they went rogue. He would really have to take the stand to try and pull that off and explain ALL the wiretaps that say nothing of the sort, but still, interesting. That defense attorney even admitted that the evidence against him is overwhelming. I'm still hoping he takes a deal, if one is offered--for giving up Donna and/or Wendi.

 

[clearskies1]

It is expected that we will see new developments in the coming weeks leading up to the 7/29/2022 sentencing of Magbanua and Case Management of Charles Adelson. These will be good developments because they are signs of progress toward “Justice for Dan Markel”.

The State may list 100 Category A witnesses but will call only 10 during trial, depending on time allocation and necessity. In the same vein, the raw data of Charles Adelson’s i-Cloud are furnished to the counsel of the defense during the discovery process but only a small portion of it, if any, is meant to be discussed in open court. All pieces of evidence will be made available to all involved during the process, including the Judge’s clerks and the Jury, for examination on demand.

Charles Adelson's i Cloud raw data was listed, and sealed from public view, in the Magbanua discovery. The picture of the Amended Discovery dated 6/29/2022, which I posted in #754, shows that these 6/29/2022 items are “replacements (plural)” for what were previously disclosed from “Magbanua” case. Hence, they must contain “new pieces” of evidence.

Of course, “new pieces” of evidence do not necessarily mean “fresh evidences” (as what you are alluding to, I presume). From 2011, Apple iCloud resides on Amazon Web Services and Microsoft Azure; and also extended to Google Cloud Platform since 2016. Apple iCloud is a generic name for multiple services such as iCloud Photo, iCloud email, iCloud Drive etc. May be these are “newly disclosed” data from another platform or from another iCloud service not previously explored.

The iCloud evidence could be dated 2016 (not very fresh) but it availed to the State Attorneys only in June 2022 (relatively new for the investigation). This is possible because the privacy disclosures of Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are arcane.

The criminal procedure gives the Judge the ability to define the scope of searches and seizures. Hence, a Judge might withhold the searches and seizures of some parts of the iCloud to protect the defendant from potential government fishing expedition until the investigators provide compelling benefits for justice to be served.

Also, Web based iCloud emails are easier to seize than iCloud Server emails. Web emails transited through multiple Web services across TCP/IP. The FBI could just seize the data from the weaker man-in-the-middle (since they are already disclosed to a third party) rather than fighting the privacy terms of the big 3.

I am just speculating as I am also curious. What could be the evidence worthiness of the Charles Adelson’s iCloud “new contents” for them to deserve a one page addendum to Answer to Demand For Discovery?

I don't think there is new content. I think it's only a new format. In the 6/29/22 Amended Answer to Demand for Discovery, the State lists CA's i-cloud data in Blue Ray format, whereas in the earlier 6/17/22 Answer, CA's i-cloud was listed in Cellebrite format and RTK format.

It looks like in the 6/29 Amended Answer the State is also asking the Defense to provide blank blue ray disks and thumb drives -- presumably so that the State can put CA's i-cloud data and Magbanua's i-cloud data on those disks/drives and then supply them to the Defense. I could be wrong, but that's how I interpret the 6/29 Amended Answer -- no new content, just new formatting. JMO.