Resolved FL - Fort Lauderdale, WhtFem UP7840, 45-65, notes in Arabic, Apr'03

WOW! I can assure you that the Karen Club Apartments do not exist in Fort Lauderdale.

The link you have from Careyspostcards that shows an aerial view on the corner of a huge canal (looks like either the intracoastal waterway or the downtown New River) and I've been up and down both those waterways and never seen any complex that looks like that at all.

The link from ebay says that post card is from 1952 - so I guess that's possible. Maybe the Karen Club Apartments existed in 1952 on a waterway like that - but they don't anymore. Nope. Not even in 2003. Wish I had more views so I could figure out just where that is.

That property appraiser's link I posted is current and up to date - and Karen Drive doesn't exist - that is what is odd.

That 1952 complex was probably torn down and either had high-rise condos or exclusive private homes built on that waterway.

I was just trying to figure out where this was. FWIW the one from ebay doesn't even look like anywhere on the water in Ft. Lauderdale. The other one could be - but on a point of water that big (and I know all of them) now holds very exclusive private mansions.



JMHO

Would you kindly take a look at the following links. I am confused. Does this area look familar?

http://www.mapquest.com/places/gateway-terrace-maintenance-department-fort-lauderdale-fl-41617512/

1943 Karen Drive is shown as Gateway Terrace Maintenance Department.


http://www.publichousing.com/details/Ft._Lauderdale-Gateway_Terrace_Apartments

Please scroll down to the larger map.

Gateway Terrace Apartments are subsidized apartments. It would make sense for a refugee person to live in such a place.

What do you think?
 
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/ar/t14012.htm

http://www.fluiddb.com/php/details10.php?case=523

Date found and estimated date of death shown as 9/30/03 (not April).

The remains of the victim, who was likely in her 40s or 50s, were found in a parking lot in the 1900 block of Karen Drive.

She had overdosed on Propoxyphene, a prescription pain killer.


This is really weird because NAMUS says found in April in an advanced state of putrefication vs found on 9/30 with estimated date of death 9/30. Strange.
 
Would you kindly take a look at the following links. I am confused. Does this area look familar?

http://www.mapquest.com/places/gateway-terrace-maintenance-department-fort-lauderdale-fl-41617512/

1943 Karen Drive is shown as Gateway Terrace Maintenance Department.


http://www.publichousing.com/details/Ft._Lauderdale-Gateway_Terrace_Apartments

Please scroll down to the larger map.

Gateway Terrace Apartments are subsidized apartments. It would make sense for a refugee person to live in such a place.

What do you think?
YES YES YES!!! Thank you - now I know exactly where that is. If you notice in your public housing link the address is 1943 SE 6 Ct. (not Karen Drive). I thought those had closed - next time I'm up that way (I was just up there today) I'll go back into that area and look.

It was public housing. It was nasty. I think they may have torn them down by now - or, at least, they are closed down.

As far as the area of town. That is in a fairly nice area. East Sunrise Blvd. on the other side of the water from Galleria Mall and close to the beach. (Which is why the "powers that be" are re-claiming that land - PRIME real estate now.

I used to know people that lived in the area but I don't anymore - so I don't really know about the population. But, I can tell you - that is definitely NOT in a "skid row" "ghetto-type" area of the city AT ALL.

Thankx again - I was buggin' me not knowing where that was.

If you mapquest or google map the address 1943 SE 6 Court - you can get aerials from that.



HTH



JMHO
 
YES YES YES!!! Thank you - now I know exactly where that is. If you notice in your public housing link the address is 1943 SE 6 Ct. (not Karen Drive). I thought those had closed - next time I'm up that way (I was just up there today) I'll go back into that area and look.

It was public housing. It was nasty. I think they may have torn them down by now - or, at least, they are closed down.

As far as the area of town. That is in a fairly nice area. East Sunrise Blvd. on the other side of the water from Galleria Mall and close to the beach. (Which is why the "powers that be" are re-claiming that land - PRIME real estate now.

I used to know people that lived in the area but I don't anymore - so I don't really know about the population. But, I can tell you - that is definitely NOT in a "skid row" "ghetto-type" area of the city AT ALL.

Thankx again - I was buggin' me not knowing where that was.

If you mapquest or google map the address 1943 SE 6 Court - you can get aerials from that.



HTH



JMHO


Thank you very much for your response. It is very helpful.
 
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/ar/t14012.htm

http://www.fluiddb.com/php/details10.php?case=523

Date found and estimated date of death shown as 9/30/03 (not April).

The remains of the victim, who was likely in her 40s or 50s, were found in a parking lot in the 1900 block of Karen Drive.

She had overdosed on Propoxyphene, a prescription pain killer.

Here's the Broward Sheriff's department listing: http://sheriff.org/apps/unidentified_victims/index.cfm#d538f69f-c299-a822-c4db-5fab7487b916

The case is listed as "2003 Suicide (03-57083)" and you have to scroll down. It agrees with the April date.

I suspect the FLUID database reflects the date the file was entered, not the date the body was found. It's a common error.
 
I spent some time today investigating the rest of the letter the unidentified woman left.

Now I think there are some pages missing. I could be right or wrong. It is JMOO.

I was able to find out that the rest of the pages contain a Dova, which I would translate as a prayer to Allah. Please know I am not a Bosnian and I am not a Muslim. I also do not speak Arabic. I am a linguist and do know quite a bit about
various languages and cultures, especially Bosnian. I am basing my opinions on my knowledge and experience but I could be wrong.

I found out that what I initially thought was Arabic was a phonetic version of it, meaning it was Arabic, but it was not written in Arabic alphabet, but exactly as it is prounounced. Each sound has one symbol. The Bosnian language is written phonetically and here Arabic is written phonetically using Bosnian alphabet. Bottom line, I believe it to be Arabic written the way it is pronounced using the Bosnian alphabet (Latin alphabet).

The Dova in the pages which were found with the deceased person is called Nur Dova.

Here is the wording I found on the Internet which matches what she had written.


Not sure this helps but here it is.

NUR DOVA
Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

Allahume ja nur. Tenevverte binnur. Vennuru fi nur. Nurike ja nur. Allahume ja aziz. Teazzezte bil izzeti. Vel izzetu fi izzeti. Izzetike ja aziz. Allahume ja dzelil. Tadzellelte bil dzelal. Vel dzelalu fi dzelal. Dzelalike ja dzelal. Allahume ja kadim. Tekaddemte bil kidemi. Vel kidemu fi kidemi. Kidemike ja kaddim. Allahume ja kadir. Tekadderte bil kadri. Vel kadru fi kadri. Kadrike ja kadir.
Allahume ja vehhab. Tevehhebte bil hajbeti. Vel hajbetu fi hajbeti. Hajbetike ja vehhab. Allahume ja alim. Teallemte bil ilmi. Vel ilmu fi ilmi. ilmike ja alim. Allahume ja hakim. Tebakkemte bil hikmeti. Vel hikmetu fi hikmeti. Hikmetike ja hakim. Allahume ja dzemil. Tedzemmelte bil dzemali. Vel dzemalu fi dzemali. Dzemalike ja dzemil. Allahume ja selam. Tesellemte bisselam. Vesselamu fi selam. Selamike ja selam. Allahume ja malik. Temellekte bil melekuti.Vel melekutu fi melekuti. Melekutike ja malik. Allahume ja kuddus. Tesabbente bissabri. Vessabru fi sabri. Sabrike ja sabur. Allahume ja mennan. Temennente bik minneti. Vel minnetu fi minneti. Minetike ja mennan. Allahume ja ferdu. Tefferedte bil ferdanijjeti. Vel ferdanijjetu fi ferdanijjeti. Ferdanijjetike ja ferdu. Allahume ja vahidu. Tevehhedte bil vahdanijjeti. Vel vahdanijjeti fi vahdanijjeti. Vahdanijjetike Ja vahidu.
Allahume ja rabb.Terebbejte birrubijjeti. Verrububijjetu fi rububijjeti. Rububijjetike ja rabb. Allahume ja kahar. Tekahherte bil kahri. Vel kahru fi kahri. Kahrike ja kahar. Allahume ja dzebbar. Tedzebberte bil dzeberuti. Dzeberutike ja dzebbar. Allahume ja kebir. Tekebberte bil kibrijai. Vel kibrijau fi kibrijal. Kibrijajaike ja kehir. Allahume ja kerim. Tekerremte bil keremi. Vel keremufi keremi. Keremike ja kerim. Allahume ja rahim. Terehhamte birrahmeti. Verrahmetu fi rahmeti. Rahmetike ja rahim. Allahume ja medzid. Temedzdzedte bil medzid. Allahume ja azim. Teazzemte bil azzameti. Vel azametu fi azameti. Azametike ja azim. Allahume ja halim. Tehallemte bil hilmi. Vel hilmu fi hilmi. Hilmike ja halim. Allahume ja lailahe illa ente. Alejke tevekkeltu. Ve entessemiul alim.
Subhanel hakim. Subhanel kadir. Subhanerrezak. Subhanel aziz. Subhanel dzebbar. Subhanel alim. Subhanel besir. Subhanel vehhab. Subhanel mudzib. Subhanel manii. Subhanel hajju. Subhanel kajjum.Subhanel evvel. Subhanel ahir. Subhanezzahir. Subhanel batin. Subhanessafi. Subhanel kafi. Subhanel maufi. Subhanesselamu. Subhanel mu'minu. Subhanel muhejminu. Subhanel maksudu. Subhanel medzidu. Subhanel vahidu. Subhanel ehadu. Subhanel ferdu. Subhanessamed. Subhanerrahim. Subhanel mukaddim. Subhanel muehhir. Subhanel baki. Subhanel mugni. Subhanel manii. Subhanennafii. Subhanel gaffar. Subhanessetar. Subhanel nur. Subhanel hadii. Subhanel kadir. Subhanel dzelil. Subhanerrekib. Subhanel dzemil.
Subhanallahi vel hamdulillahi ve lailahe illalahu vallahu ekber. Subhanel muktedir jefalu kajfe jeshau bi kudretihi. Ve jahkumu ma juridu bi izzetihi.
Subhanallahi ve bi hamdihi. Subhanallahil azim. Subhanallahi kade. Subhanel eala. Subhanehu ve te ala amma jekulune ulevven kebira. Subhanel izeti, vel azameti, vel dzeberuti. Subhanellezi la te'huzuhu sintenum vela nevm. Subbuhun kuddusun rabbuna ve rabbul malaiketi verruh. La ilahe illallahu vahdehu la serike leh. Lehul mulku ve hamdu , juhji ve jumit, ve huve ala kulli sej'in kadir. Ja Allahu ja Rahmanu ja Rahim. Ja hajju ja kajjum. Ja zeldzelali vel ikram. Ja nurennur. Ja la ilahe illa ente. Alejhi tevekkeltu ve huve rabbul arsil azim. Allahummagfirli bi hurmeti hazihil esmai. Allahume inni eseluke en tagfirli ve e'afuve anni. Ve an ustadi. Ve an evladi. Ve an abai ve ummehati, ve an ashireti, ve akribai. Ve sallallahu ala sejjidina Muhammedin. Ve alihi ve sahbihi edzmein. Ve la havle ve la kuvvete illa billa hil alijjil azim!

(El-Fatiha)

I also found out it has not been translated to English or Bosnian. I don't know about other languages. I read in several Bosnian forums there is a dispute about this Dova being used by the followers of Islam. One side says it must not be used while another side believes there is no reason not to use it. In any case, all agree that the dispute is the reason for it not being translated into other languages.

Again, I do not speak Arabic and cannot comment on any of it.

As far as this case is concerned, the woman apparently felt comfortable about this Dova. I don't see where it makes a difference in this case.

If the pages which were found with her body are the only ones found, I am not at all convinced this was a suicide note. On the other hand, there might have been more pages but they were not at the scene, perhaps blown away by the wind. Just speculating.

I believe this to be correct. If you think I am mistaken, please correct me.

What do you all think?
 
Another tidbit of information which might help or not:

I understand that Pero was/is this woman's son-in-law (her daughter's husband).

Pero is the nickname for the anme Petar (Peter or Petre in English).

That is a typical Croatian name, but also used in Serbia.

Therefore, the deceased person's daughter was in a mixed marriage (she being a Muslim and her husband being a Croat or less likely Serb).

I also believe the deceased person was in a mixed marriage. The language she uses is Croatian. I believe her to have been a Croat living in the Croatian part of Bosnia. Practically all the Croats are Catholics (with very few exceptions) but she had obviously converted to Islam. Meaning that her husband was probably a Muslim. That is a typical scenario.

Just guessing...

Maybe this might help?

Opinions, anyone?
 
I can't opine her background other than my original suspicion that she was a Bosniak.

as I recall, before the former Yugoslavia imploded, interreligious marriages were fairly common in Sarajevo although I can't speak for the countrysides. I would think conversions would have been uncommon but who knows? the text (assuming she wrote it) would imply that she was in fact Muslim and I doubt she would have prayed to her husband's god if they were still an interfaith marriage. also had she converted, that seems to be an awful lot of phonetic Arabic she would have had to memorize to write out that note.

so my inclination would be to say that she was in fact Muslim for her entire life. her son-in-law could be Christian as Peter (or its variants) is NOT Muslim a name.
 
I do believe you may be right.

Thank you for your opinion.

By working together and expressing our opinions, I believe, we will find the answer.
 
I can't opine her background other than my original suspicion that she was a Bosniak.

as I recall, before the former Yugoslavia imploded, interreligious marriages were fairly common in Sarajevo although I can't speak for the countrysides. I would think conversions would have been uncommon but who knows? the text (assuming she wrote it) would imply that she was in fact Muslim and I doubt she would have prayed to her husband's god if they were still an interfaith marriage. also had she converted, that seems to be an awful lot of phonetic Arabic she would have had to memorize to write out that note.

so my inclination would be to say that she was in fact Muslim for her entire life. her son-in-law could be Christian as Peter (or its variants) is NOT Muslim a name.

You make such good points. Thank you. I hope we can solve this case together.

I am just trying to help using my background and knowledge. You offer much more in addition to it. Thank you!!!!

Dear Webrocket, please continue to post your opinions. I firmly believe you are on the right track.

I also want to thank everyone else. You are such a wonderful group. I feel honored to "know" you. May God bless you all!
 
just chiming in. I lived in the former yugo for a while. I agree this woman sounds like she was Bosnian muslim. However her note seemed excessively religious with its prayers to allah, which is not very typical for bosnian muslims who are generally not very devout. Maybe that was part of her mental illness. This is just based on my observations while living there in the late 1990 early 00's. The name Pero is typically a croatian nickname for peter so it is kind of odd she would choose a croatian name over a muslim name being that she seems like a practicing muslim. People from the former yugoslavia are pretty sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can mention someones name and they all have an opinion where they are from and their religion based on the person's name. of course nothing is written in stone there are many exceptions, just mentioning what is typical.
 
there are plently of scenarios we can speculate about. husband murdered in the old country, she gets out with her daughter and son in law. they settle in FL but she is depressed, feeling lonely, guilty, whatever and kills herself. you'd think the daughter and maybe grandchildren would wonder where grandma was.

it is not like she could have gotten on a plane and gone back to Bosnia.
 
I agree this woman sounds like she was Bosnian muslim. However her note seemed excessively religious with its prayers to allah, which is not very typical for bosnian muslims who are generally not very devout. Maybe that was part of her mental illness.

maybe she is asking forgiveness for committing suicide and hence the over-religious nature of the note.
 
just chiming in. I lived in the former yugo for a while. I agree this woman sounds like she was Bosnian muslim. However her note seemed excessively religious with its prayers to allah, which is not very typical for bosnian muslims who are generally not very devout. Maybe that was part of her mental illness. This is just based on my observations while living there in the late 1990 early 00's. The name Pero is typically a croatian nickname for peter so it is kind of odd she would choose a croatian name over a muslim name being that she seems like a practicing muslim. People from the former yugoslavia are pretty sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can mention someones name and they all have an opinion where they are from and their religion based on the person's name. of course nothing is written in stone there are many exceptions, just mentioning what is typical.
f


This is very interesting. Please share with us anything and all you can and want. I, for one, would love to hear it.

Thank you for sharing!
 
just chiming in. I lived in the former yugo for a while. I agree this woman sounds like she was Bosnian muslim. However her note seemed excessively religious with its prayers to allah, which is not very typical for bosnian muslims who are generally not very devout. Maybe that was part of her mental illness. This is just based on my observations while living there in the late 1990 early 00's. The name Pero is typically a croatian nickname for peter so it is kind of odd she would choose a croatian name over a muslim name being that she seems like a practicing muslim. People from the former yugoslavia are pretty sensitive to that kind of stuff. You can mention someones name and they all have an opinion where they are from and their religion based on the person's name. of course nothing is written in stone there are many exceptions, just mentioning what is typical.

I just realized you were living there during the very dangerous war times. Please share with us your opinions and feelings, even if they do not directly relate to this case. Still, I believe that anything you might or will say will relate to thsi case in some way. Just MOO
 
I had friends in Yugoslavia before the breakup. She was a western-educated Bosnian Muslim, he was a Croatian Catholic from a mixed Catholic-Jewish marriage. She said their family was not unusual; Sarajevo especially was an open, melting pot sort of region. They fled to England before the really bad part of the war.
 
I was living in Croatia at the time, i didnt see much of the war, I do remember driving by signs that said danger landmines, do not leave the road. That was pretty scary. There were lots of UN vehicles everywhere.
But back to the case, what I find odd is this womans religous zeal. How she knew or memorized all those prayers. Because Yugoslavia was socialist/semi-communist before the war, the population was not very religious. Mostly religious in name only- as in non-practicing. there were no fanatical muslims in bosnia until after the war. During the war there was an arms embargo, croatia and serbia already had weapons because they had the remnants of the yugoslav army but Bosnia was getting there weapons from the Mujahedin who infiltrated from the middle east. After they arrived the Muslims became more devout.
 
I am now wondering if it is really a suicide note. Maybe its a letter someone gave to her and she had it with her.

Also, one site said she had cuts on her and the other said she overdosed. The one that mentioned the cuts didn't mention the OD and the one that mentioned the OD didn't mention the cuts.

She was wearing a bathing suit and something about that doesn't tell me this was well planned, plus she was found in a parking lot.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
75
Guests online
707
Total visitors
782

Forum statistics

Threads
589,921
Messages
17,927,691
Members
228,002
Latest member
zipperoni
Back
Top