FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[bbkitty]

How about Patty finding the condo Donna and Harvey rented for Wendi in May 2014? How did they know she was to be moving down there?
Do you know how she found this out?
She found a roof work order for Dans house ,or insurance filing by Wendi who lived in the said condo rented by her parents…the one rented BEFORE THE MURDER.

Isn’t that important new evidence?
So important, Patty contacted the FBI.

Patty is not the source of the 2014 Continuum lease.

 

[Knitpicker]

Patty is not the source of the 2014 Continuum lease.

She didnt say she was. She found the roof repair contract.

 

[Knitpicker]

Though I agree with you other points, there are several considerations that may but a damper on her ability to use her law degree consistently to generate income. These considerations could include:

- Little real world experience, a glut of attorneys, and a certain reputation that potential legal employers may shy away from.

Right.

 

[Knitpicker]

Patty is not the source of the 2014 Continuum lease.

You are right. I meant finding the roof repair contract. I should probably check my brain before writing.

 

[bbkitty]

She didnt say she was. She found the roof repair contract.

Well, I'm just saying the roof repair contract she sent to the FBI was not how they discovered the earlier Continuum lease.

 

[amicuscurie]

Well, I'm just saying the roof repair contract she sent to the FBI was not how they discovered the earlier Continuum

Oh, but just not from Patti. Makes sense. Although it’s pretty easy to look in various databases they must have access to for any addresses they’ve ever had, no? Or just interview people. People know where they lived. Katie knows the place was at Continuum. People met them when they moved down to South Beach. There are school records, it’s a public school and you have to have an address in the district. They must have sent out investigators. I’ve never understood why they didn’t interview Katie sooner than when they arrested her.

It does seem to me like the state has been sort of going with the assumption that they lived in the Icon this whole time. But they didn’t have to. Wouldn’t they at the very least have checked the Icon lease and found it puzzling that they only got it in 2015, when supposedly per Wendi they were spending weekends at a rental on South Beach before the murder? Did they think they were in Coral Springs still? With the boys in school in Miami?

I was surprised when the cop said at Charlie’s trial that the texts during Harvey’s birthday came from “the vicinity of the Icon.” It’s true that Continuum is “in the vicinity of the Icon.” Maybe they just didn’t want to confuse Charlie’s jury.

I do recall, now that I think about it, that they didn’t ask Wendi on the stand exactly where she went when she left Tallahassee with her parents. I think they said “South Florida,” but they didn’t ask her specifically. I don’t think they asked her when she moved to the Beach.

Remember, they’re not allowed to investigate anything they might have gotten from her answers, and they’re not allowed to use anything they’ve got unless they can show that they got it another way.

My guess is they didn’t ask her a lot of stuff they know.

 

[apeXperience]

After CA and now DA and the millions$ expended for their defense, who would ever think that once co-defendant Luis Rivera would be the wisest of the bunch.

Served his time, and his release date nears --

LUIS RIVERA
Register Number: 07850-104
Age:	41
Race:	White
Sex:	Male
Located at: Marianna FCI
Release Date: 05/16/2026

Inmate Locator

www.bop.gov

In 2014, Luis "King Tato" Rivera was sentenced to 12 years in Federal Prison subsequent to his RICO conviction, along other members of the Miami Chapter of Latin Kings.

While already in Federal custody in 2016, King Tato was identified as one of the 2 killers who gunned down Prof. Dan Markel in 2014. King Tato turned into State witness, and pointed to Sigfredo Garcia and Katherine Magbanua as his accomplices. As term of his plea deal, King Tato was convicted of 2nd degree felony murder and sentence to the max 19 years, concurrent to the 12 years from the RICO case. Hence in 2026, King Tato will be released from Federal prison, and transferred to FDC prison to serve until 2033.

Latin Kings nicknames such as King Tato are as meaningful as proper names in order to uniquely identifying them among the many Hispanic males who would be named Luis Rivera. Tato means younger brother, shorty, stammering boy in Spanish slang.

 

[Seattle1]

They are often referred to as having been toddlers, but the older boy was almost 5, if I recall correctly. Speaking generally from my own experience, and not about this particular case, children remember things that happened and people they knew when they were 4 and 5. These children experienced the death of a parent and then within days they were moved hundreds of miles from their home, school, friends, and the only life they had known.

I don't think trauma experienced by children at any age can be discounted on how it may affect the memory of their lost parent.

For example, I just watched a program on the brutal Ohio murder of Ashley Biggs in 2012 by her baby daddy (Cobb) and his then wife Erica Stefanko. (There's a thread for this case).

Ashley was delivering pizzas for Dominos when the murdering couple lured her to a dark office park in the guise of somebody working late at an office in the park.

This case also involved a custody battle over Cobb and Ashley's 7 yr old daughter, Grace. (Ashley granted custody and dad had regular visitation). Cobb took a plea deal for the murder but his then wife Stefanko was not arrested until years later.

In 2020, Grace, then 14, testified during the trial of Stefanko that she had no memory of her mother, Ashely. In 2024, at the retrial of Stefanko, Grace now age 18 testified again that she has no memory of her mother. Here, the child was 7 when Mom was murdered, and she was was raised by her grandparents after the loss of both parents.

Seriously, who's to say what traumatized children of any age remember including the Markel boys. MOO

 

[amicuscurie]

I don't think trauma experienced by children at any age can be discounted on how it may affect the memory of their lost parent.

For example, I just watched a program on the brutal Ohio murder of Ashley Biggs in 2012 by her baby daddy (Cobb) and his then wife Erica Stefanko. (There's a thread for this case).

Ashley was delivering pizzas for Dominos when the murdering couple lured her to a dark office park in the guise of somebody working late at an office in the park.

This case also involved a custody battle over Cobb and Ashley's 7 yr old daughter, Grace. (Ashley granted custody and dad had regular visitation). Cobb took a plea deal for the murder but his then wife Stefanko was not arrested until years later.

In 2020, Grace, then 14, testified during the trial of Stefanko that she had no memory of her mother, Ashely. In 2024, at the retrial of Stefanko, Grace now age 18 testified again that she has no memory of her mother. Here, the child was 7 when Mom was murdered, and she was was raised by her grandparents after the loss of both parents.

Seriously, who's to say what traumatized children of any age remember including the Markel boys. MOO

True. Trauma affects everyone differently. Kids can form memories at that age, they might not, though.

 

[Knitpicker]

Oh, but just not from Patti. Makes sense. Although it’s pretty easy to look in various databases they must have access to for any addresses they’ve ever had, no? Or just interview people. People know where they lived. Katie knows the place was at Continuum. People met them when they moved down to South Beach. There are school records, it’s a public school and you have to have an address in the district. They must have sent out investigators. I’ve never understood why they didn’t interview Katie sooner than when they arrested her.

It does seem to me like the state has been sort of going with the assumption that they lived in the Icon this whole time. But they didn’t have to. Wouldn’t they at the very least have checked the Icon lease and found it puzzling that they only got it in 2015, when supposedly per Wendi they were spending weekends at a rental on South Beach before the murder? Did they think they were in Coral Springs still? With the boys in school in Miami?

I was surprised when the cop said at Charlie’s trial that the texts during Harvey’s birthday came from “the vicinity of the Icon.” It’s true that Continuum is “in the vicinity of the Icon.” Maybe they just didn’t want to confuse Charlie’s jury.

I do recall, now that I think about it, that they didn’t ask Wendi on the stand exactly where she went when she left Tallahassee with her parents. I think they said “South Florida,” but they didn’t ask her specifically. I don’t think they asked her when she moved to the Beach.

Remember, they’re not allowed to investigate anything they might have gotten from her answers, and they’re not allowed to use anything they’ve got unless they can show that they got it another way.

My guess is they didn’t ask her a lot of stuff they know.

She was asked and said “Coral Springs”. Which is why the roof info is important. She lied

 

[Knitpicker]

Well, I'm just saying the roof repair contract she sent to the FBI was not how they discovered the earlier Continuum lease.

Ok I mispoke-see my comment to Amiscurie.

 

[Seattle1]

Hence in 2026, King Tato will be released from Federal prison, and transferred to FDC prison to serve until 2033.

^^RSBM

I'm curious if LR is on the State's witness list to testify in DA's trial -- does OP know?

I ask because there's at least one letter floating around addressed to GC (filed 7/26/2022) from LR where he's requested her help to facilitate filing a Motion to amend his overlapping sentence to end with his federal term in 2026, citing his life in danger by the LK if/when he's housed in Florida DOC. LR has reported that due to his 'snitch' status, he'd likely be housed in isolation for any time he serves in Florida DOC. If he's on the list to help the state convict DA, he might be seeking something in return from GC.

Nonetheless, 7 years in Florida gets discounted to 85% of your sentence or 5.9 years so his release date would be earlier than 2033. MOO

ETA: Disregard question re. LR on the witness list. This was answered/produced in 11/30/23 Discovery -- designated category A which is otherwise aka "witnesses."

 

[amicuscurie]

She was asked and said “Coral Springs”. Which is why the roof info is important. She l

Wow! I did NOT remember that. Her lawyers might argue that she did go sur them to Coral Springs at first. Did she say when she moved? Of course, my understanding is that her own prior testimony cannot be used against her or presented at her trial.

 

[Knitpicker]

The son had to be registered where he started school mid August.
As per yesterdays conversation, even if D and H got the Continuim as their first condo , isn’t it coincidental that it was rented in May 2014?

 

[JerseyPride]

The whole thing seems like a bad idea to me.

Par for the course. This sentence applies to literally everything the co-conspirators did.

 

[amicuscurie]

The son had to be registered where he started school mid August.
As per yesterdays conversation, even if D and H got the Continuim as their first condo , isn’t it coincidental that it was rented in May 2014?

Yep.

 

[Going Rogue]

The son had to be registered where he started school mid August.
As per yesterdays conversation, even if D and H got the Continuim as their first condo , isn’t it coincidental that it was rented in May 2014?

No it’s not coincidental. Aren’t we 99.99% sure Donna was in on the plot? If we are at least 99.99% sure, then it’s not a coincidence, I think we can make a logical deduction that it was part of the plan. I think you are hung up on where Wendi ‘lived’ or said she lived after she moved to S. Florida. Unless they can ‘find’ something that ties Wendi to the decision (maybe a money trail or email) before the murder about Donna and Harvey’s apartment lease, it’s a big nothing burger as it relates to ‘evidence’ on Wendi. It’s similar to all the other ‘indicators of guilt’ discussed in social media - assumption and conjuncture laced. I know you will probably say that’s me ‘defending’ Wendi, but it’s just a very realistic take on the data available AND stating that doesn’t mean I think she is innocent .

 

[amicuscurie]

No it’s not coincidental. Aren’t we 99.99% sure Donna was in on the plot? If we are at least 99.99% sure, then it’s not a coincidence, I think we can make a logical deduction that it was part of the plan. I think you are hung up on where Wendi ‘lived’ or said she lived after she moved to S. Florida. Unless they can ‘find’ something that ties Wendi to the decision (maybe a money trail or email) before the murder about Donna and Harvey’s apartment lease, it’s a big nothing burger as it relates to ‘evidence’ on Wendi. It’s similar to all the other ‘indicators of guilt’ discussed in social media - assumption and conjuncture laced. I know you will probably say that’s me ‘defending’ Wendi, but it’s just a very realistic take on the data available AND stating that doesn’t mean I think she is innocent .

The evidence per Donna’s own emails is that Donna originally wanted W and the boys to move into the house in Coral Springs, attend a private school, have their own rooms, and she even got W a job at a law firm nearby. That’s all in her emails to Wendi about the relocation petition, after the divorce.

The evidence (per Jeff), is also that Wendi loved Miami, went down every chance she got. Per Epstein’s book, She also lived in Miami with Dan for a while when he got a job at UM, and per Epstein’s book she stayed there when his job ended and he went back to Tally.

Then the relocation petition is denied, at some point hypothetically the plan is alleged to have switched to murder, and suddenly, if I understand you correctly, Donna’s plan, hypothetically, is for them not to live in Coral Springs, but to rent a condo in Miami for them all to live in, have Harvey commute two hours a day, send the boys to public school, have them share a room, and have Wendi try to get a job there.

 

[IQuestion]

Yea, but they usually break fingers . If you are a 'non traditional' lender, murdering your 'client' is a great way to guarantee you will never be paid back.

Levity aside, I would agree a "non traditional lender" wouldn't get paid back if they killed their client...But, this was not a borrower/lender situation. IMO, WA did not see it as a repayment of a loan...it was her entitlement. And, the murder of DM was the one way WA could assure receipt of the funds ($120K), avoid ever escalating attorney fees, save her public/professional career, have sole custody of the children (no doubt thrilling DA), Max Soc Sec benefits for the children, no more scrutiny over food/religious observance/school choices, 2 million in life insurance proceeds (her attempt to get control was thwarted) and move back to South Florida (civilization?). As CA said, "At least she no longer sees herself as a victim." That, in my mind is how she manipulated her family...I am being victimized by Dan and I want to come home. Catalyst or co-conspirator?

For they sow the wind and they shall reap the whirlwind.

PS: Simply having knowledge a murder/grievous act is about to rained down upon an innocent man is not a crime? But, what if she made the call to ensure the event doesn't occur "when my children are around?" For example: IE, Gee whiz golly, I'm so upset DM is going to pick up the boys early to go swimming? Oh don't worry, my hired killers will be sure they kill him before he goes to the daycare. Hold on while I call KM (the 18 minute call & hold time) and make sure it happens long before 2PM.
Okey dokey, I just got off the phone with KM and it is a go! BTW go out to lunch with some girlfriend(s) in the opposite direction of the crime scene.... the more witnesses who can attest to your shock and dismay, the better.
OOPS!! Dammit WA I said the opposite direction!!

 

[Going Rogue]

The evidence per Donna’s own emails is that Donna originally wanted W and the boys to move into the house in Coral Springs, attend a private school, have their own rooms, and she even got W a job at a law firm nearby. That’s all in her emails to Wendi about the relocation petition, after the divorce.

The evidence (per Jeff), is also that Wendi loved Miami, went down every chance she got. Per Epstein’s book, She also lived in Miami with Dan for a while when he got a job at UM, and per Epstein’s book she stayed there when his job ended and he went back to Tally.

Then the relocation petition is denied, at some point hypothetically the plan is alleged to have switched to murder, and suddenly, if I understand you correctly, Donna’s plan, hypothetically, is for them not to live in Coral Springs, but to rent a condo in Miami for them all to live in, have Harvey commute two hours a day, send the boys to public school, have them share a room, and have Wendi try to get a job there.

All I’m saying is that it’s not a coincidence Donna & Harvey rented the apartment in May of 2014. IMO, Donna wanted a second place in anticipation of Wendi’s arrival and it’s possible Wendi was part of that plan. Not sure if that was a short-term plan or long-term, but I believe the decision to rent the place at the Continuum was 100% driven by Wendi's pending relocation to S. Florida. What the specific plan was as to who 'stayed' or ‘slept’ where on any given day / night is anyone’s guess. I could be completely wrong and Donna and Harvey just wanted a place in S. Beach and it had nothing to do with the plan to murder Dan and Wendi's move to S. Florida.