FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[Zedzded]

Then the relocation petition is denied, at some point hypothetically the plan is alleged to have switched to murder, and suddenly, if I understand you correctly, Donna’s plan, hypothetically, is for them not to live in Coral Springs, but to rent a condo in Miami for them all to live in, have Harvey commute two hours a day, send the boys to public school, have them share a room, and have Wendi try to get a job there.

But it could just be argued that it was a place for them to stay when they came down from Tally for the weekend?

 

[IQuestion]

..But it could just be argued that it was a place for them to stay when they came down from Tally for the weekend?

ZZ most landlords/rental companies usually engage in tete-a-tete discussions with potential tenants when they are applying to rent/lease: Are you new to town? How long do you expect to stay? How did you find out about us? (And since I am infamous for exploring hypothetical situations...) Wouldn' t it be awfully incriminating if rented in May 2014, with the landlord being told "for our daughter who is a recent widow" or "our relocating daughter wants her children to start school in this district" or something to that affect.??? Also current employment, who will be occupying the residence, proof of income etc. Here in "Earthquake Shores", CA one usually must show income 3 times the amount of rent. ie a renter(s) must have $9000 a month combined income for a $3,000 per month rental. (Thank you to @Knitpicker for making us think more about this...hope you are feeling better.) We have seen the rental contract...but have we seen the original application?
edt to add: application gives landlord access to information about a person’s credit, income, liabilities, previous landlords (if any) and even if convicted of a crime etc

 

[61Montcalm]

We have seen the rental contract...but have we seen the original application?
edt to add: application gives landlord access to information about a person’s credit, income, liabilities, previous landlords (if any) and even if convicted of a crime etc

That's an absolutely brilliant question - certainly one I hadn't thought of - I bet that Georgia has seen it, studied every detail of it, knows it back to front, and it will be very interesting to see what comes out at Donna's trial.

 

[Zedzded]

Can anyone confirm where DA and HA were living at the time of the murder?

 

[Knitpicker]

Yup I agree. The apartment rental doesn't really mean a hell of a lot.

But now the drive by on the night of the murder is? Saw your post on Reddit. Remember months ago I brought this up here?

And it bugged you to no end…just sayin…I wouldn’t have known if you didn’t say there who you were here. And talk about this crazy person “Knitpicker” who is so annoying…. So just surprised you actually posted what you did there today. And if they didn’t block me, (still can’t figure out why), I’d make a comment there about it.

So yes, we will soon find out just where Donna and Harvey (if Harvey was not in Tallahassee) were before that money drop. It certainly wasn’t “on the way” if they left from the family home.

It’s too bad we don’t know if Harvey went to work July 14-July 16th as he should have those days. The software for his practice has been gone when his practice was sold in 2021. Thats too bad. Lots of info. Patient records only have to be kept in Florida for 7 years or so.
Unless he state has it. If Harvey wasn’t in the office those days, I;d say it’s very suspicious as to his whereabouts that week.

 

[Knitpicker]

Can anyone confirm where DA and HA were living at the time of the murder?

They were living at least in the Coral Springs home M-W (As Harvey worked those days at the time), as we had the conversation here months ago about it. At least I did. I posted the maps and they took it down here, but there was a lot of discussion on my end here about it. That it was going out of the way to “pass” Charlies house. AT the time you didn’t think it mattered, but I guess now it does to you (because of your new post on R-eddit?)

Because of the new conversation now about the rentals?
You went on there and told someone (and named me by my name here) that I was making a big deal out of this.In January or so.

 

[Knitpicker]

T

TH 13 is definitely 3 BR, that’s the address Wendi lists on the application to do work on the Tally house.

Where are you seeing any lease for a 2BR? I’ve only seen a lease signed by Harvey which doesn’t give the unit number.

On one of the bump calls, Donna is speaking to Charlie about Rob. She is talking about how he came to Harvey’s 70th. If I recall correctly, she refers to him going “downstairs.” TH 13 is a 2 story townhouse.

Ok just a few minutes before I have a full day of lectures.
Theres Charlie on the stand-talking about moving from a small place (to small for them all),to his parents getting a larger place.
Theres Wendi answering that her parents lived in Coral Springs 2012-2016
Yesterday ,you said Harvey signed a lease July 2014.
That was news to me..
We know there was a lease signed May 2014 from Patty.
We also know there were 2 condos rented at the Icon.
The one D and H were living in when the bump happened-conversation about renting another in the same building.
We also know they were at the contunuim Father’s Day.

So the question is what two apartments were rented May 2014 and July 2014?
It doesnt’t really matter-I guess like to some it didn’t matter that driving to Charlie’s the night of the murder was going out of the way for D and H, unless they were coming from the condo rented May 2014.
I thought -common sense, that W and the boys would be going to the Coral Springs home since Wendi cleaned out her childhood room> I didn’t think she would go automatically to Miami without at least a short time in the family home. It made sense that Donna would have been there not in Miami the night of the money drop.
So Charlie’s was totally out of the way to get to Orlando -Tallahassee.(Look at the conversation I had in January about all this-the site took the maps down here that I posted)

So, to summarize, the rental issues—-it showed that both Charlie and Wendi lied on the stand.(Of course W can say she told a “partial” truth. But a partial truth is a lie.

Wendo lied by not including the Miami condo her parents were living in May 2014 (if they were in fact living there part time),and answering “Coral Springs”, and for sure they were living there from 2014-2016 (that she didn’t address in the question from Georgia).
Charlie lied by saying his parents rented a larger apartment, when the larger apartment was the one they originally had (you stated that here and I know we all saw photos of the duplex).

And of course, I’ll bring up again the money drop, and whether they left from Ccoral Springs or Miami or whether Harvey was even in Miami or Coral Springs that night (Rashbaum made it a point during C’s trial to say he was in the shower when Wendi called from the precinct)
I find it beyond odd that when Wendi called, if Harvey was in the shower (wendi said to put her on speaker), that Donna didn’t go running to the shower and yell “Harvey, Dan was murdered!!”…no she just calmly sits there talking to Wendi…
So imo, something is also up with that.


Gotta go get ready for a long day. Later…

 

[amicuscurie]

But it could just be argued that it was a place for them to stay when they came down from Tally for the weekend?

It could. I’m saying that IMO it’s unlikely.

 

[amicuscurie]

But now the drive by on the night of the murder is? Saw your post on Reddit. Remember months ago I brought this up here?

And it bugged you to no end…just sayin…I wouldn’t have known if you didn’t say there who you were here. And talk about this crazy person “Knitpicker” who is so annoying…. So just surprised you actually posted what you did there today. And if they didn’t block me, (still can’t figure out why), I’d make a comment there about it.

So yes, we will soon find out just where Donna and Harvey (if Harvey was not in Tallahassee) were before that money drop. It certainly wasn’t “on the way” if they left from the family home.

It’s too bad we don’t know if Harvey went to work July 14-July 16th as he should have those days. The software for his practice has been gone when his practice was sold in 2021. Thats too bad. Lots of info. Patient records only have to be kept in Florida for 7 years or so.
Unless he state has it. If Harvey wasn’t in the office those days, I;d say it’s very suspicious as to his whereabouts that week.

It was a Friday. They may have been in South Beach that day as W says in her interview. She maybe could possibly have only said that just to work in the fact that they had that condo before the murder. She was asked only where they live, not why they had the condo, but she volunteered it that it was a place Charlie had gotten them to see how they liked living there. The evidence is that they did not sell the CS place until 2015, and they did spend some weekends in SoBe prior to the murder.

 

[amicuscurie]

Ok just a few minutes before I have a full day of lectures.
Theres Charlie on the stand-talking about moving from a small place (to small for them all),to his parents getting a larger place.
Theres Wendi answering that her parents lived in Coral Springs 2012-2016
Yesterday ,you said Harvey signed a lease July 2014.
That was news to me..
We know there was a lease signed May 2014 from Patty.
We also know there were 2 condos rented at the Icon.
The one D and H were living in when the bump happened-conversation about renting another in the same building.
We also know they were at the contunuim Father’s Day.

So the question is what two apartments were rented May 2014 and July 2014?
It doesnt’t really matter-I guess like to some it didn’t matter that driving to Charlie’s the night of the murder was going out of the way for D and H, unless they were coming from the condo rented May 2014.
I thought -common sense, that W and the boys would be going to the Coral Springs home since Wendi cleaned out her childhood room> I didn’t think she would go automatically to Miami without at least a short time in the family home. It made sense that Donna would have been there not in Miami the night of the money drop.
So Charlie’s was totally out of the way to get to Orlando -Tallahassee.(Look at the conversation I had in January about all this-the site took the maps down here that I posted)

So, to summarize, the rental issues—-it showed that both Charlie and Wendi lied on the stand.(Of course W can say she told a “partial” truth. But a partial truth is a lie.

Wendo lied by not including the Miami condo her parents were living in May 2014 (if they were in fact living there part time),and answering “Coral Springs”, and for sure they were living there from 2014-2016 (that she didn’t address in the question from Georgia).
Charlie lied by saying his parents rented a larger apartment, when the larger apartment was the one they originally had (you stated that here and I know we all saw photos of the duplex).

And of course, I’ll bring up again the money drop, and whether they left from Ccoral Springs or Miami or whether Harvey was even in Miami or Coral Springs that night (Rashbaum made it a point during C’s trial to say he was in the shower when Wendi called from the precinct)
I find it beyond odd that when Wendi called, if Harvey was in the shower (wendi said to put her on speaker), that Donna didn’t go running to the shower and yell “Harvey, Dan was murdered!!”…no she just calmly sits there talking to Wendi…
So imo, something is also up with that.


Gotta go get ready for a long day. Later…

The CS house was 5BR, which is enough for her and the boys to each have one, plus one to spare, so cleaning out her room for one of the boys to use might not have been necessary (she could hypothetically gave moved into her old room).

 

[Knitpicker]

The CS house was 5BR, which is enough for her and the boys to each have one, plus one to spare, so cleaning out her room for one of the boys to use might not have been necessary (she could hypothetically gave moved into her old room).

I never said she cleaned out her room for one of the boys to use.

 

[Knitpicker]

It was a Friday. They may have been in South Beach that day as W says in her interview. She maybe could possibly have only said that just to work in the fact that they had that condo before the murder. She was asked only where they live, not why they had the condo, but she volunteered it that it was a place Charlie had gotten them to see how they liked living there. The evidence is that they did not sell the CS place until 2015, and they did spend some weekends in SoBe prior to the murder.

My reference to M-W was about Harvey possibly being in Tallahassee the week of the murder.
I know the murder was Friday and I know it’s been said they/she could have left from Miami.
The point is that they lived there M-W, so they were not moved out of the Coral Springs home. And she could have just as easily left from the family home.
Remember, this was no “normal” Friday.

 

[IQuestion]

My reference to M-W was about Harvey possibly being in Tallahassee the week of the murder.
I know the murder was Friday and I know it’s been said they/she could have left from Miami.
The point is that they lived there M-W, so they were not moved out of the Coral Springs home. And she could have just as easily left from the family home.
Remember, this was no “normal” Friday.

"K" bbm (you definately have a lot of details! and my head is spinning!) Wouldn't the issue of HA's location be easily verified through Cellbrite positioning? He would have to be in contact with his dental office at least once to verify something for a patient/office or emergency...hmmm, but interesting to consider. Of course my question (first thought) is why would he even need to be there (in Tally)?
ps. Know you are busy, so dont feel obligated to address my question...anyone can chime in with their thoughts on this....thank you in advance

 

[amicuscurie]

I never said she cleaned out her room for one of the boys to use.

Oh, sorry, I thought you said she might have been out her room in preparation to move into the CS home. IMO, moving out is a better reason to clean out a room. Sure, she could have been clearing it out for herself to move in.

ETA- if you’re going from Miami Beach to Orlando, you can take the turnpike, and you would get on it before you get to Ft. Lauderdale. Sunpass records would reflect that.

If, however, you were going from Miami Beach to FLL and stopping there, you would probably not use the turnpike, though you might if the place you were going was right off of it. In that case, sunpass records might reflect that you got on it North of Miami and then got off it. I’m not sure where to tolls are collected, or if they have sensors at each exit.

If you are leaving from Coral Springs and going to Tallahassee, it is not necessary to pass FLL at all on the turnpike.

 

[Knitpicker]

Oh, sorry, I thought you said she might have been out her room in preparation to move into the CS home. IMO, moving out is a better reason to clean out a room. Sure, she could have been clearing it out for herself to move in.

ETA- if you’re going from Miami Beach to Orlando, you can take the turnpike, and you would get on it before you get to Ft. Lauderdale. Sunpass records would reflect that.

If, however, you were going from Miami Beach to FLL and stopping there, you would probably not use the turnpike, though you might if the place you were going was right off of it. In that case, sunpass records might reflect that you got on it North of Miami and then got off it. I’m not sure where to tolls are collected, or if they have sensors at each exit.

If you are leaving from Coral Springs and going to Tallahassee, it is not necessary to pass FLL at all on the turnpike.

I know the routes from Miami to Ft Lauderdale. Charlie really lived more in Davie than Ft Lauderdale. He was pretty far fromt he Atlantic-close to his dental school.
Right now tho we weren’t talking about the sun pass.
I was discussing that if they left from the family home, it would be out of the way, not “passing by”.
Unless “passing by” didn’t mean they were actually passing by.

 

[Knitpicker]

Oh, sorry, I thought you said she might have been out her room in preparation to move into the CS home. IMO, moving out is a better reason to clean out a room. Sure, she could have been clearing it out for herself to move in.

ETA- if you’re going from Miami Beach to Orlando, you can take the turnpike, and you would get on it before you get to Ft. Lauderdale. Sunpass records would reflect that.

If, however, you were going from Miami Beach to FLL and stopping there, you would probably not use the turnpike, though you might if the place you were going was right off of it. In that case, sunpass records might reflect that you got on it North of Miami and then got off it. I’m not sure where to tolls are collected, or if they have sensors at each exit.

If you are leaving from Coral Springs and going to Tallahassee, it is not necessary to pass FLL at all on the turnpike.

I know the routes from Miami to Fort Lauderdale.
The subject is going out of their way to “pass Charlies”.
PS. My computer froze so I had to reboot and didn’t see that my above comment went through..

So, what condo lease was signed July 2014th?

 

[Knitpicker]

"K" bbm (you definately have a lot of details! and my head is spinning!) Wouldn't the issue of HA's location be easily verified through Cellbrite positioning? He would have to be in contact with his dental office at least once to verify something for a patient/office or emergency...hmmm, but interesting to consider. Of course my question (first thought) is why would he even need to be there (in Tally)?
ps. Know you are busy, so dont feel obligated to address my question...anyone can chime in with their thoughts on this....thank you in advance

We have not gotten the full information on cell phone locations for July 18th evening as far as H and D.
I am hoping by Georgias questioning to Wendi “So your parent(s) (I have to double check if she said specifically Donna) usually picked you up and drove back with you”?
“Where were your parents living 2012-2016”?, are important.
Here’s another one.

I think Harvey may have been up there for an other attempt.
I’ll leave it at that for now..

Yes, the patient records are very important.
Unless they looked at that years ago he, I suspect they are gone.
Unless they can get insurance company records for EOB’s (explanation of benefits) on whether Harvey actually treated someone and billed for it -we will never know.
The reason imo this is important is that it shows that Harvey not only knew , but was part of it.
So D and H were there the weekend before the murder.
.
Wendi claims she “drove the boys” up. But she doesnt mention Harvey snd Donna being there.

I don’t want to confuse anyone, so I will double check but I believe there is proof that a car was rented on that Monday 7/14th.
I am thinking that it could have been Donna going back down.
So I am not trying to start conspiracy theories, but it bugged me greatly that Rasghbaum announced that Harvey was in the shower when Wendi called Donna.
Maybe he read some of my comments on SM lol.
I have not heard anyone else mention this, or that Donna could have been alone when Wendi called her.
I think it’s because people don’t know the areas they lived, where C lived, and where the condo was.

Donna did not say when W said to put her on speaker “Oh your dad is in the shower”, or she didn’t run to the shower to tell Harvey.” That whole scenario is very odd.

Wendi would have surely needed support up there and Having Harvey there would have helped her. Once again, this is just my opinion.
Donna was 64 then, not an old woman and one that was used to driving up to get Wendi and bring her to S Florida. Wendi confirmed this ont he stand. Harvey did not have to be there with Donna the night of 7/18th.
I’m done with my conference….thx for the thoughtfulness!!

 

[Zedzded]

I know the routes from Miami to Fort Lauderdale.
The subject is going out of their way to “pass Charlies”.
PS. My computer froze so I had to reboot and didn’t see that my above comment went through..

So, what condo lease was signed July 2014th?

Correct. So if they left from Coral Springs then they would have had to have gone South for 25mins to be "outside" CA's house then travel North.

 

[Zedzded]

We have not gotten the full information on cell phone locations for July 18th evening as far as H and D.
I am hoping by Georgias questioning to Wendi “So your parent(s) (I have to double check if she said specifically Donna) usually picked you up and drove back with you”?
“Where were your parents living 2012-2016”?, are important.
Here’s another one.

CA stated to KM "oh my parents were just here" on the 18th of July around 10.45PM.

 

[amicuscurie]

I know the routes from Miami to Fort Lauderdale.
The subject is going out of their way to “pass Charlies”.
PS. My computer froze so I had to reboot and didn’t see that my above comment went through..

So, what condo lease was signed July 2014th?

No, I apologize for the confusion, I did not see a July lease.

I’ve seen no lease except the one from May that Harvey signed for a place in Continuum (with unit number redacted) for 13k a month.

I did see on Zillow that the 3BR townhouse (the same one W listed in her application for work on the Tally house, per Patty’s video), was listed for rent for 13K in July, 2014. But- I saw another real estate website that said it was listed for rent for 13k IN MAY.

These websites vary in accuracy, I think only official MLS listings are really accurate as to when something was listed for rent, and I don’t have access to those.

IF the 3BR townhouse (the one W listed on her application for work on the Tally house) was listed for rent for 13k in MAY, that would certainly be interesting to me. If I recall correctly, Harvey signed a lease for a condo for 13k a month at the same address, IN MAY.

I have seen, to date, no evidence of anyone in the family renting a SECOND unit in Continuum. The only evidence for that is Charlie’s testimony.

From what I understand, H and D moved into a 2BR in Icon sometime in 2015, and W moved to her 2BR in the Courts in 2015. From what I understand, H and D sold the CS house in 2015.

H and D are living in the Icon during the bump, and Harvey is committing to CS several days a week.

Donna in 2016 on a bump call with Charlie, discusses possibly moving to another unit in Icon that is for rent, I don’t know whether that happened.