FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

Discussion in 'Jennifer Kesse' started by Harmony 2, May 9, 2017.

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  1. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    I do, too. But here is what bugs me about the cell phone data--they won't confirm the time of the first ping, and I have to wonder why.

    They don't mind giving out the end time. And although they tell us we shouldn't believe anything of it, they consistently say that both phones went dead at the same time.

    I think we have a missing piece between the end time (which they also won't confirm) of Jennifer's last landline phone call; and the time of the first of the 11 pings.

    This is a crucial time, so what could be behind the secrecy?
     
  2. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    Abridged.

    People are jumping to unsupported conclusions with this talk of Jennifer's having "gotten ready."

    She may have taken a 5-minute shower and then remembered that she needed something--anything--from her car.

    She might have put clean underwear in or she might have slipped on a pair of sweatpants without any underwear.

    She might have slipped on her heels because they were already next to her bed, or they might be a red herring. Some serial killers have taken similar items from victims and given them as gifts to their wives, girlfriends, or sisters; the perp may simply have stolen the shoes from Jennifer's car.

    Maybe Jennifer didn't even take a shower per se; maybe she got into the shower or tub in order to shave her legs, which is something she might not have wanted to spend time on in the morning.

    I don't know whether the evidence at Jennifer's apartment was staged or simply misinterpreted, but the phone pings seal the deal for me that she was abducted at night.

    A stranger could have lured her out by pretending to be LE or Mosaic security and telling her that her car had a flat tire or a broken window, for instance; a ruse like that might have lured her not only outside her apartment but outside her building. If she was abducted by a reJeCted suitor, it's a little more difficult to see how she could have been lured out, but maybe a good actor using the right pretense could have done it.
     
  3. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    I've read people saying she put them in the briefcase sometimes. That could just be speculation though. If she was known to put them in her briefcase and wear more comfortable shoes to her car, they could have been there. I wonder what's in that trunk that law enforcement doesn't want us to know.

    Do you think the perp has walked there before maybe or just the dog is off trail a bit?
     
  4. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    She sure was on the phone a lot that evening. It would leave little time to get ready to go out. There is even reference to hair products being out in the bathroom in the first thread. My #1 theory is that someone she knew knocked on her door unexpectedly, and she let them in or went with them. Then he came back and staged the apartment. I don't see a random construction worker staging. The staging seems intimate to me and tells me someone felt the need to mislead investigators because he was close to her. Also why stage if you're a random construction worker and you abducted her at night. The staging is to make you think she left that morning.

    The time lines are interesting to me. She was on the phone most of the evening so was she getting ready then? I also find it very interesting that the car was dumped almost right after they started looking for her. Also IF it is a random morning abduction the perp didn't have much time to carry out his crime, compose himself, and come up with a plan. He doesn't look panicked in the video. Just looks like he's on a well though out mission.
     
  5. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    Was the disposable camera on her nightstand ever developed? It's in the Greta walk thru.
     
  6. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    I am not as up to date on this case as other cases but I keep thinking that someone at her work who was quietly obsessed with her finally gave in to their obsession. Maybe overhearing about her recent trip pushed them over the edge. She wouldn't have turned them away if they came to her door because she would've known them. Maybe they used work as an excuse. I just think it is someone in her outer friend and acquaintance circle that no one would believe could be capable of harming her. I wish that this case would be solved for the family's sake. It's so sad.
     
  7. SpanishMossAntiques

    SpanishMossAntiques Well-Known Member

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    But yet she didn't grab her cell phone and reach out to anyone as was her habit when feeling uneasy. Why? A: I believe it's because she was very comfortable with the person who would have then abducted her - she trusted him, implicitly. If my best friend came over at 11pm, I wouldn't think twice about letting her into my home - if she wanted me to go out for coffee with her I wouldn't think twice about getting in her car.
     
  8. SpanishMossAntiques

    SpanishMossAntiques Well-Known Member

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    I still firmly believe that the person who abducted Jennifer was in her closest circle of friends/relationships.
     
  9. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Did she have keys to the office? Maybe they used the ruse they left something in the office?
     
  10. rd_jfc

    rd_jfc Well-Known Member

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    I agree, there's not enough basis to say she was getting ready to go out. There are a number of things that seem to be missing that are hard to account for without her going out to the car to drive somewhere close by, but finding out some it isn't missing could change that perception quickly.

    The contact lenses are one. I would imagine if they had been in her condo, her family would have found them. If not taken out and switch to glasses during the evening, she surely would have removed them after the phone call, wouldn't she? But she could have gone out to the car to get the DVD player before she did that.

    Drivers license. Is it possible she kept it in the car? That would be unusual and known by those close to her, wouldn't it? Also a wallet with bank cards and such are normally accounted for, and there's nothing that says her wallet was found or is missing? If not found by family in her condo, then whether it was found in the car or not, it was taken to the car.

    I think it would be clear that the family didn't find her wallet back in her condo, part of the expectations she was going to work. In fact, that's part of what makes this night disappearance so difficult, it resembled going out for the day to her family.

    Her new heels is another. Doesn't indicate a whole lot to me if was in a briefcase that was in the car, but missing is really hard to explain.

    Friend's phone. We've suggested as a stretch that she took the phone out to the car when going to get the DVD player, otherwise, gets difficult to explain that missing. One question. Was there any discussion between Jennifer and the owner about shutting it down? I recall seeing something about her telling him there were some calls. Did she keep it on after talking to him? Was there anything said about about powering it off to send it to him, maybe assumed, but anything actually said?

    If dealing with it in any way such as taking it out to her car while getting the DVD player, I would expect she would based on her conversation with their friend the owner to power it off at that time or keep it on, for whatever reason that was, but I wouldn't be surprised that the phone would be powered off by Jennifer by 10:20 pm if she hadn't powered it off before. Maybe the owner (Travis I think) has shed light on that?

    Security apparatus. I don't know the details of this case like I do Chandra Levy's details of her disappearance, but like with Chandra, I think I read that a security device Jennifer would normally carry was left in her condo? Maybe she had more than one and was actually carrying her normal security on a key ring and that is unsure and not known? Stepping outside for any reason would be unusual if she didn't have her keys and security device (pepper spray, etc.) with her. Again missing or not missing makes a lot of difference.

    Shower. I agree, could have been short of a shower. Could have been shaving legs, I don't know, but not like a shower I'm going out thing. Maybe washing hair? Or maybe a shower even to drive to take a short drive to take the phone somewhere. But I wouldn't characterize as getting ready to go out based on what we know.

    Also, if Jennifer didn't drive away a short distance before being abducted, indications are that of a very fast abduction along with the missing items and behavior of a prepared criminal. I know that to try to explain how someone got to Jennifer that someone she was familiar with is seen as the answer, but the behavior of her abduction says otherwise.
     
  11. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    BBM - Unsuported conclusions? What conclusions have we reached?

    What it seems to me we are doing is jumping off each others thoughts on points or topics specific to Jennifer's case, that we want to discuss. I think we make every effort to base our topics or points on facts as much as we can--and by that I mean a statement by the Kesses; a photo; or something that has appeared in the MSM.

    Our discussion is our own thoughts and observations, but I believe that is allowed.
     
  12. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    I would hazard a guess that the POI had walked there before.


    Regarding the hair products, yes, Mrs. Kesse is still consistent with this. I believe she mentions specifically a curling iron and possibly a handheld hair dryer, or maybe even both. I don't see a sign of either in the bathroom picture.

    Regarding the bold by me: I'm totally on board with this. It was one of the very first observations which occurred to me when I began following Jennifer's case. The crime was so meticulous--very little evidence; no sign of a struggle; dropping Jenn's vehicle at high noon in a crime infested area Jenn would never go to--but near her condo--and walking away--somewhere--without being witnessed; cleverly having his side profile snapped not once but twice with a gate post blocking the visual. (He made a mistake at the palm tree but got away with that, too; because no one will acknowledge it).

    All within a four hour window? I realize the abduction itself would only take two or three minutes at the most and I believe the planning was in place; but there would have been quite a few important things that still had to be done. It makes sense to me that this person--this careful and meticulous planner--would give himself more time before the "heat" was turned up. As it turned out, he barely made it to his destination.

    And I know some people have luck, but the kind of luck required here is really pushing the limits of my comprehension.


    Kudos to you for noticing that--I certainly never have. Just my two cents: it probably belonged to Mr. and Mrs. Kesse as they were staying there by that time. I hope it indicates that they had the foresight to snap a few pictures before things got disturbed too much. It's possible that they turned them over to law enforcement and we have never seen them, because what we have seen doesn't seem to be a very good match to what they describe.

    But for confirmation for myself if you would be so kind--you weren't able to see a pair of glasses on the night stand either? So, no glasses in the bathroom near the contact case, and no glasses on the night stand by her bed?
     
  13. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    You have taken a statement I made in a rather lengthy comment out of context.

    My point was if not for the very obvious reason you have stated, then what else could it be.

    Two things: Where did you pull the 11 pm time from? Also, Mr. Kesse stated that Jennifer did not drink hot coffee or tea.

    See below for the time frame of the phones being either destroyed or having their batteries physically taken out: I, for one, have heard no mention of Jennifer and a female friend driving around later that evening seeking a coffee; nor do I find it plausible.

    Drew Kesse: And within that conversation, I was told that at a certain point the phones were not powered down, but either destroyed or batteries physically taken out. And I was told the time—and I think the time was somewhere between 10:40 and—10:20 and 10:40 PM on the 23rd; the night before we reported Jennifer missing.
    https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward
     
  14. Markybug

    Markybug Well-Known Member

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    Truth ,

    What and where is the “seedy area” police mention ?

    With the information from her parents re her afterwork routine, i can only envision someone coming to her flat , or someone calling her in distress? ( for a night time abduction)

    Daytime, has to be workmen imo.
     
  15. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course you are right. It's just that I think it would be a little unusual for Jennifer to tell Rob she was ready for bed and not even have her contacts out. I doubt she would have termed that ready for bed, but I don't know for sure. People are all different.


    They just say her purse was missing--nothing is so much as alluded to regarding the contents of the purse. But--when they finally went through Jennifer's unpacked luggage--they discovered the purse they thought was missing. To this day, they insist a purse was missing but say there is no description available. I suggest they need to believe a purse is missing because they realize that Jennifer would not have left for work without a purse of some sort.

    Jennifer's Florida driver's license is listed as a stand alone missing item and really does stand out like a sore thumb, as far as being mentioned as a stand alone item. No one has come forward to say where she routinely kept it.

    We know nothing about her wallet and all that it would contain; or where it was or is. They say her bank records show zero activity since the gas fill-up on the evening of the 22nd, but that information would come from a subpoena--not from the information on her credit cards, etc, contained in her wallet.

    She was just returning from a short vacation; so, maybe, her things weren't exactly where she normally kept them.


    But one of the things they could indicate if actually missing, is that Jennifer left for work that morning. See my point above about the purse regarding this necessity.


    I don't know where you are taking this; but, yes. It's rumored that Jenn told him the battery was almost depleted and he agreed to her powering it off. They discussed how he could call in to the message center to retrieve his messages.


    Yeah, you've got it about right here; or at least we are in agreement with the rumors.

    Logan stayed in that condo for at least three days while his sister was on vacation--is it not possible he could confirm whether that can of mace was on the counter while he was there? However, we never hear anything like that--only that they believe Jennifer took it off her key ring before she left on vacation.


    LOL From a woman's perspective that's evidence of getting ready to go out. (Maybe not out on a date, though).

    No matter how much we want to overlook it--and believe me I do--I feel there is some suggestion of preparing to go out. And the really important thing to me here is that we have to see it and accept it in order to believe she was in or near her vehicle at the time of abduction.


    Bolded by me. Okay. This is the point I was trying to get at in my poor, round about way, in one of my other comments. Actually, I think we have been politely debating this a bit.

    I feel that there could be at least the possibility that Jennifer's abductor was known to her and trusted by her and accepted in her circle of friends. This would be when he has his mask on.

    Also, I think it would be possible that he was/is highly knowledgeable in the behavior of a prepared criminal. In other words, he could be a smart predator that did his research well. This would be when his mask slips and his rage takes over. Few, if any, would have seen this side of him.
     
  16. rd_jfc

    rd_jfc Well-Known Member

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    Truth Prevails wrote: "I don't know where you are taking this; but, yes. It's rumored that Jenn told him the battery was almost depleted and he agreed to her powering it off. They discussed how he could call in to the message center to retrieve his messages."

    Thanks for this info, Truth. I find this very odd. I would expect that she would power off the phone while talking to Travis or immediately after. She's probably holding it and looking at it talking to him about it. And yet the info is that both phones were, as you quoted above, actually not even powered down but destroyed or batteries removed. Which would mean she never turned if off. That's hard for me to believe.

    Where I was going with that is the above. I would expect that Jennifer would have powered off the phone by 10:20 pm in dealing with it in any way, shape, or form for it to be missing. And yet it's included with this info of both phones having their batteries taken out.

    It's often suggested that the battery could have run down and look like it was taken out, and I would say it's quite possible with the friend's phone as she described it earlier in the evening. I find the concept of her not powering it off as she is talking to Travis about the depleted condition of the battery incomprehensible. Unless she put it in a battery charger and kept it on in case a call came through on it. I can see that happening.

    Except they agreed she would power it off, if that info from Travis is valid. Even if it isn't, it's what I would expect, and the info is that it didn't happen. So I find that inexpicable, and we don;t need more inexplicable things here.
     
  17. liz b.

    liz b. Well-Known Member

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    Have been reading avidly. Wonder if LE contacted the local electric utility company. This could have shown if there was any use of electricity that morning, when JK would have normally been getting ready for work. And it would also show definitively when the electricity use stopped the night before. Of course it could not determine if anyone else was in the condo using the electricity, and it could be misleading if JK slept with any lights on. But, this could be determined by examining her daily electricity usage patterns.
    There is some reason why both LE and the family, believe in the morning abduction scenario, and I can't imagine it is all based on a damp towel, and a wet shower area. JMO, though.
     
  18. rd_jfc

    rd_jfc Well-Known Member

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    Truth Prevails wrote: "I feel that there could be at least the possibility that Jennifer's abductor was known to her and trusted by her and accepted in her circle of friends. This would be when he has his mask on.

    Also, I think it would be possible that he was/is highly knowledgeable in the behavior of a prepared criminal. In other words, he could be a smart predator that did his research well. This would be when his mask slips and his rage takes over. Few, if any, would have seen this side of him. "

    I understand. What needs to be observed is that this eliminates any harsh words anger fight etc. scenario which is what most people think of as someone who comes there that Jennifer is familiar with. This is someone acting out a planned kidnapping and removal from her home using her own car. That is a very strange scenario, of course all these crimes are evil strange, but strange even considering other crimes.
     
  19. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    BBM - Now, I'm likely to make a laughing stalk out of myself trying to explain this because I know there are a lot of people who at least read here who are much more familiar with the area than I am.

    But I don't mind giving it a try and then maybe someone more knowledgeable will step in and help me out. (Please). :)

    So, think about the image we have of the facial view of the POI standing near the palm tree--if he were to continue just a little ways further he would be standing on the corner of South Texas Avenue and Americana Boulevard. If he were to take a left at the corner and walk about 18 minutes according to Google Maps he would be on South Orange Blossom Trail and at that point he would have totally crossed the area in question.

    Now, if we back him up to the corner of South Texas Avenue and Americana Boulevard, and have him turn right at the corner; he would be able to walk to Jennifer's complex in about 20 minutes. (At least to the broken fence area). Just before he reaches Jennifer's complex the street name changes to Conroy Road and has a better reputation.

    But it is the "Texas Ave to the west; Orange Blossom Trail to the east; Oak Ridge Road to the south; Holden Avenue to the north" area in question. They did a big grid search of that area looking for Jennifer around about the 1st of February, 2006; and then a couple of weeks later they raided that rooming house based on a highly vetted tip that Jennifer was there--turned out to be the prostitute. (The boarding house is just a little ways up from the grid search area). There were other searches in this area, too. Orange Blossom Trail and Oak Ridge Road come up again and again in searches for Jennifer.

    But it's all right near Jennifer's complex--it wouldn't take much gas to get there. And it's an area where people would go to buy drugs, and I suppose, stolen goods, etc. And who knows what after 10 o'clock at night?

    I believe Mrs. Kesse when she said Jennifer was aware. Jennifer would never go to that neighborhood to try and mail a cell phone that could have easily waited until the next day. If the phone was pinging in this neighborhood--Jennifer was already abducted. Whatever time we are talking about--they had her or they had separated her from her cell phone somehow.

    To support my claim that the phone was pinging in this area, I use the following, but it's no accident that so many searches were done in the area.

    Mr. Kesse: At any rate, when we had the ping study, we were brought into a room with the law enforcement and they explained to us basically, quote, unquote, that, really, Mr. and Mrs. Kesse, you didn’t know your daughter.

    She was out up here in a bad area [unclear].

    https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward
     
  20. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    I think that picture of the bathroom isn't the way Jenn left it. I would love to see how it looked when they originally entered the condo.

    I don't see any glasses on the nightstand. I see something black in front of the camera that could be a glasses case. I'm not sure though.

    I think he dropped the vehicle at noon because he found out they were looking for her already.
     
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