FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[Truth Prevails]

Thanks so much Truth , that helps visualise things !

Are the pings definitely from in a car ? I assume the police can judge the manner and speed the mobile changes towers ?

Wow. You make a good point, here. I've never heard that they could, but your reasoning certainly makes me think you are onto something. I hope someone else jumps in with more information on this.

Also that area reaches right to the mall car park (blue martini )

The red circle area does. I question that, too. I'll add the quote from the old MSM article I have for that. I find it odd in that they begin by saying they believe her car came through the South John Young Parkway "corridor".

Then a couple of paragraphs down they expand out to include areas along Conroy Road and Americana Blvd. So, I'm not positive of their meaning there.

I'm sorry the old link from January 31, 2006 doesn't work anymore, but I have quoted as much as I dare of the article due to keeping with W/S copyright laws. I think they might still apply to old articles. The only part I didn't copy and past is about a search and flyer distribution.

Snipped quote: … ORLANDO, Fla. -- Police are using surveillance video from stores to try to find missing 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse. Officers have already taken the tapes from several businesses located near Jennifer's condo, which is near the Mall of Millenia.

Police are now releasing a timeline as to when they think Jennifer's car came through the South John Young Parkway corridor and detectives are scouring the store surveillance tapes hoping one of the cameras captured something to narrow the timeline.

Jennifer's car is still the best clue police have. A woman, who didn't want to be identified, but lives in the Huntington on the Green apartments where Jennifer's car was found last Thursday morning, remembers seeing the car a whole day earlier, Wednesday morning. She nearly hit it, in the lot.

"My kids were making noise in the car and I almost backed into it," she said. "I didn't notice that car before and, when I noticed it, I knew it wasn't somebody staying around here."

Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the Chevy Malibu anytime after 10pm Monday night, when Jennifer last spoke to her boyfriend, and Thursday morning at 8am, when the car was found.

Detectives think Jennifer herself, or someone else, was traveling on South John Young Parkway, between Texas and Americana and Conroy Road by the Mall of Millenia, during that time frame.

A manager at the 7-Eleven along John Young and Americana confirmed that police collected their outdoor surveillance tapes looking for clues.
http://www.wftv.com/news/6630167/detail.html

Its strange the car is returned within the area it presumably was moving with jenn/mobile phone ?

It makes me wonder if it ever left the area.

Then again Mr. Kesse says he believes there was about 11 pings; but hardly any gas used in Jenn's vehicle.

So then I wonder if the phone(s) was/were traveling with someone else in their vehicle.

Maybe Jenn was already in the trunk of her own vehicle with someone else driving in another direction? (And I'm sorry to type that about where Jenn might have been--I certainly don't know that for a fact and can hardly tolerate the thought).

I don't know. Makes a person wonder.

 

[liz b.]

I know this has been hashed over many times here, but I can't get past this: Why park the vehicle so close to the condo? If she had been taken outside the general area (several miles away, say) -WHY risk coming back so close to her condo? Why on earth would anyone want to be anywhere near it? Put the car anywhere else on the face of the earth, rather than near the condo, which seems to me to include so much risk.

I've thought about this quite a bit, and I'm thinking that everything that happened, happened very, very close to home. My guess is JK was never more than a few blocks away, unless she was eventually removed well after the crime. My guess is that crime happened within a blocks, if not feet, of HOTG.

Sorry if this is sort of a "nothing" post. I guess I'm just thinking aloud, and my thoughts are often waaaaaay behind everyone else's!

It's a great question. jmo Maybe because he needed to be able to get back to Jennifer's condo building fairly quickly, without a vehicle. Secondly, he both wanted to suggest that Jennifer was at HOTG at some time, and/or he believed that someone(s) might break into the vehicle at some point, contaminating it evidence wise. He was slick. JMO

 

[Markybug]

Wow. You make a good point, here. I've never heard that they could, but your reasoning certainly makes me think you are onto something. I hope someone else jumps in with more information on this.

The red circle area does. I question that, too. I'll add the quote from the old MSM article I have for that. I find it odd in that they begin by saying they believe her car came through the South John Young Parkway "corridor".

Then a couple of paragraphs down they expand out to include areas along Conroy Road and Americana Blvd. So, I'm not positive of their meaning there.

I'm sorry the old link from January 31, 2006 doesn't work anymore, but I have quoted as much as I dare of the article due to keeping with W/S copyright laws. I think they might still apply to old articles. The only part I didn't copy and past is about a search and flyer distribution.

Snipped quote: … ORLANDO, Fla. -- Police are using surveillance video from stores to try to find missing 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse. Officers have already taken the tapes from several businesses located near Jennifer's condo, which is near the Mall of Millenia.

Police are now releasing a timeline as to when they think Jennifer's car came through the South John Young Parkway corridor and detectives are scouring the store surveillance tapes hoping one of the cameras captured something to narrow the timeline.

Jennifer's car is still the best clue police have. A woman, who didn't want to be identified, but lives in the Huntington on the Green apartments where Jennifer's car was found last Thursday morning, remembers seeing the car a whole day earlier, Wednesday morning. She nearly hit it, in the lot.

"My kids were making noise in the car and I almost backed into it," she said. "I didn't notice that car before and, when I noticed it, I knew it wasn't somebody staying around here."

Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the Chevy Malibu anytime after 10pm Monday night, when Jennifer last spoke to her boyfriend, and Thursday morning at 8am, when the car was found.

Detectives think Jennifer herself, or someone else, was traveling on South John Young Parkway, between Texas and Americana and Conroy Road by the Mall of Millenia, during that time frame.

A manager at the 7-Eleven along John Young and Americana confirmed that police collected their outdoor surveillance tapes looking for clues.
http://www.wftv.com/news/6630167/detail.html


It makes me wonder if it ever left the area.

Then again Mr. Kesse says he believes there was about 11 pings; but hardly any gas used in Jenn's vehicle.

So then I wonder if the phone(s) was/were traveling with someone else in their vehicle.

Maybe Jenn was already in the trunk of her own vehicle with someone else driving in another direction? (And I'm sorry to type that about where Jenn might have been--I certainly don't know that for a fact and can hardly tolerate the thought).

I don't know. Makes a person wonder.

So police thought / still think ?? that the car was possibly mobile overnight? Tho the family think not.

Hopefully if the case files are released, this can be properly looked at again.

 

[liz b.]

This could be nothing , or it could be everything..?

A male , possibly unknown , knocks jenns door on the last evening she is ever heard from. Allegedly a neighbour, but assuming she didnt look , the person must have made some noise to make her think they were male? Surmise that she was on the phone at the time so there is a witness to this , but not necessarily Rob ? As she was on the phone a lot that evening.

Thank you for this summary, Marky Bug It is something that stands out, something about the evening/night that is a tad...off somehow.. I so wish Jennifer's disappearance could be classified as a cold case by LE. And if it is, I hope her family can receive the services of the Vidocq Society. I honestly believe that there is an solution to be found here, and the VS capable of finding it. JMO Not sure why OPD won't re-classify the case ?

 

[U2forever]

Respectfully snipped.

I think you have your answer right there about the shower. Jennifer might not have showered for work before bed, but after a grueling 12-hour day, anybody might take a quick shower before bed. Who wants to crawl into clean sheets grimy, sweaty, and smelly? She probably spread the towel out on the dryer because she intended to use it again in the morning and hoped it would dry overnight.

In my experience putting a damp towel on the washer or dryer does not dry it and me being the mildew freak, especially in Florida, I would hang it in the bathroom.

Does anyone know if her habit was to hang it in the bathroom or the laundry room?

I am a nut when it comes to wet things like towels. Every morning after DH showers I go in and make the bathroom livable again and in doing so I hang up the wet towels.
I go as far as using the hangars with the plastic clips and I clip on the towel and hang up on the shower rod until dry and fold and place back where it belongs. I do the same thing with washcloths too.

Go ahead and say it, I'm anal, but my towels are fresh and dry and no mildew smell what so ever. I also live in a hot as hell and humid sub tropical fry eggs on the sidewalk climate. LOL

Another thing, when I was reading about her contacts being out, was that out of the contact case itself like she was in the process of wearing them, or taking them out, or out and nowhere to be found?

 

[rd_jfc]

Is it possible that whoever took her was associated with the residency and had a key or was able to obtain a key to her apartment? I've read in these threads about her condo being used for a showing unauthorised?

Even if the dead bolt was on with a key used to gain entry you could slide your hand in the gap and unlatch it. Jen could have been having a shower at the time of the person entering. This is all I can think of to explain how she was lured out. Her mobile would be somewhere visible in the apartment hence that is missing and it would allow any additional staging or removal of items to occur or other items to be taken.

Does anyone know if Jens car had central locking on her car where lights flash on the car if you press it or make a noise when you try to unlock it from afar? Otherwise how did the offender know which car was hers? Her keys probably had the car brand logo stamped on them but still there could have been multiple chevy brand cars parked there. It seems to well organised to just be a random abduction every base seems covered and I dont think that would happen if a stranger just had a brainsnap and killed her there would be more evidence left behind.

A deadbolt is not a chain lock. In general I have usually had deadbolts on apartment doors (like my current one) and chain locks on hotel doors. A deadbolt is simply a bolt you slide across into the frame. There is no key way around it and no give whatsoever as in chain locks. It is highly secure and requires breaking the door frame or the door itself which requires massive force. Breaking the smallest window possible or jimmying a sliding door if they don't have a bar down in the floor groove. Knocking / breaking a sliding door off its frame would be preferable to dealing with a deadbolted door.

Of course all these leave evidence of breaking in.

 

[Truth Prevails]

So police thought / still think ?? that the car was possibly mobile overnight? Tho the family think not.

Hopefully if the case files are released, this can be properly looked at again.

They publicly say they now believe in a morning abduction.

I think all the “evidence” that made them think otherwise in the beginning still exists, but since it didn’t pan out, they basically filed it.

I think their public image really took a bruising over this case, and possibly still suffers from it.

I think it was decided by someone that their best course of action would be to try for a show of unity with the family.

But that hasn’t been working out so good for them, either.

I don’t think we will ever see the whole case file released—there would be polygraph results; informant’s names; DNA results; interrogation transcripts; people they possibly surveilled—who knows what all? And some of the people would be totally innocent. It could turn into an ugly witch hunt and never reveal Jennifer’s location.

I think even Mr. Kesse realizes he will never get the whole file and that’s why he has said he will be happy with the first two weeks of tips.

I hope they just give them to him. I can’t see any harm that would do—just give them to him and let him have his own people look.

It would be a true miracle and nothing but if they found their daughter. I can’t think of a family or a victim who deserve it more.

Barring a miracle, I would like to see law enforcement really start investigating this case again. Seriously investigating. Not just dumping a ton of money on a big bus and making a show for the public. They could start with a new detective, one with some ambition.

I wish they would start at Jennifer’s workplace. We spend a lot of time with the people we work with, and law enforcement missed a big red flag there in the beginning. The call from the workplace came in too quick—someone there at least knew enough to suspect something terrible had happened. I’m not suggesting anyone there was responsible for her abduction; only that someone had at least overheard something.

Someone there could provide the tiny piece that starts the unraveling.

But twelve years is a long time. People’s memories fade, we die, we move far away. Maybe it wouldn’t do any good, either.

Basically, Jennifer needs a miracle. This beautiful girl who was taught to reach for the stars deserves a miracle.

 

[Truth Prevails]

In my experience putting a damp towel on the washer or dryer does not dry it and me being the mildew freak, especially in Florida, I would hang it in the bathroom.

Does anyone know if her habit was to hang it in the bathroom or the laundry room?

I am a nut when it comes to wet things like towels. Every morning after DH showers I go in and make the bathroom livable again and in doing so I hang up the wet towels.
I go as far as using the hangars with the plastic clips and I clip on the towel and hang up on the shower rod until dry and fold and place back where it belongs. I do the same thing with washcloths too.

Go ahead and say it, I'm anal, but my towels are fresh and dry and no mildew smell what so ever. I also live in a hot as hell and humid sub tropical fry eggs on the sidewalk climate. LOL

Another thing, when I was reading about her contacts being out, was that out of the contact case itself like she was in the process of wearing them, or taking them out, or out and nowhere to be found?

Her family believe she was wearing them at the time of her abduction. Her contact case was empty and her glasses were left behind.

 

[rd_jfc]

I see we're going down Monday and scheduled back up on Wednesday. Hope all goes well and all this helpful info on Jennifer is just as helpful on the flip side.

 

[Truth Prevails]

A deadbolt is not a chain lock. In general I have usually had deadbolts on apartment doors (like my current one) and chain locks on hotel doors. A deadbolt is simply a bolt you slide across into the frame. There is no key way around it and no give whatsoever as in chain locks. It is highly secure and requires breaking the door frame or the door itself which requires massive force. Breaking the smallest window possible or jimmying a sliding door if they don't have a bar down in the floor groove. Knocking / breaking a sliding door off its frame would be preferable to dealing with a deadbolted door.

Of course all these leave evidence of breaking in.

BBM - I discovered Jennifer's condo didn't have a sliding door. It appears to have a large window and then a nice door, also with windows, and what appears to be a good deadbolt. (Overlooking and leading out to her balcony).

 

[Ozoner]

A deadbolt is not a chain lock. In general I have usually had deadbolts on apartment doors (like my current one) and chain locks on hotel doors. A deadbolt is simply a bolt you slide across into the frame. There is no key way around it and no give whatsoever as in chain locks. It is highly secure and requires breaking the door frame or the door itself which requires massive force. Breaking the smallest window possible or jimmying a sliding door if they don't have a bar down in the floor groove. Knocking / breaking a sliding door off its frame would be preferable to dealing with a deadbolted door.

Of course all these leave evidence of breaking in.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying there's "no key way around" a deadbolt. I've had several deadbolts, and every one of them could be unlocked with a key.

Some older deadbolts were keyed inside and out so that they could only be opened with a key. Those aren't made any longer because sometimes people would get trapped inside of burning buildings, unable to unlock the deadbolt because the key couldn't be found.

 

[U2forever]

Her family believe she was wearing them at the time of her abduction. Her contact case was empty and her glasses were left behind.

Thank you! :daisy:

 

[rd_jfc]

I'm not sure what you mean by saying there's "no key way around" a deadbolt. I've had several deadbolts, and every one of them could be unlocked with a key.

Some older deadbolts were keyed inside and out so that they could only be opened with a key. Those aren't made any longer because sometimes people would get trapped inside of burning buildings, unable to unlock the deadbolt because the key couldn't be found.

Well, I learned something. I didn't know deadbolt was a generic term for both keyed and thumb turn only.
Thumb turn only, or as catagorized in Wikipedia, class-room function or single cylinder deadbolts, are the only deadbolts worthy of the name. They only open and close by hand turning from the inside.

Bolts that turn with a key are just locks that can't be jimmied, such as we've done back in the day with opening a motel door with a drivers license.

My door has all three. An unkeyed doorknob with the latch that could be jimmied open with something, above it a keyed bolt (stealing the term deadbolt, shame on it) which turns with a key, the way the door is locked and unlocked, and above it a deadbolt, turned from inside, no keyhole in it on inside, no presence of it on outside. You would have to drill through the door to get to it.

That's the only thing worthy of the term deadbolt.

Despite it's generic term use for both keyed and unkeyed, the thumb turn only from inside as additional unkeyed safety lock is what I've had on a few apartment doors through the years and what I presume was on Jennifer's door and any door of similar apartments and condos. If you could turn it with a key, it pretty much defeats the purpose.

If it were me, I would just use the terms keyed bolt and deadbolt to differentiate but apparently class-room function deadbolt has to be said. That's just sad, bordering on pathetic.

 

[shelly111]

what i mean is a chain lock or a swing bar door guard
which turn from inside and prevent the door to open all the way so someone can't come in from outside. no key needed.
If Jennifer had either one,the door guard or chain lock, the only way he could have come inside is if he opened the door with a key and slide.his hand, jiggled it and takes the screws off.
Before,while jennifer was at work ,he came to unscrew the lock a little so it will be
easy later on to open the door

 

[fridaybaker]

Well, I learned something. I didn't know deadbolt was a generic term for both keyed and thumb turn only.
Thumb turn only, or as catagorized in Wikipedia, class-room function or single cylinder deadbolts, are the only deadbolts worthy of the name. They only open and close by hand turning from the inside.

Bolts that turn with a key are just locks that can't be jimmied, such as we've done back in the day with opening a motel door with a drivers license.

My door has all three. An unkeyed doorknob with the latch that could be jimmied open with something, above it a keyed bolt (stealing the term deadbolt, shame on it) which turns with a key, the way the door is locked and unlocked, and above it a deadbolt, turned from inside, no keyhole in it on inside, no presence of it on outside. You would have to drill through the door to get to it.

That's the only thing worthy of the term deadbolt.

Despite it's generic term use for both keyed and unkeyed, the thumb turn only from inside as additional unkeyed safety lock is what I've had on a few apartment doors through the years and what I presume was on Jennifer's door and any door of similar apartments and condos. If you could turn it with a key, it pretty much defeats the purpose.

If it were me, I would just use the terms keyed bolt and deadbolt to differentiate but apparently class-room function deadbolt has to be said. That's just sad, bordering on pathetic.

Off topic, but I had to laugh at this! Having lived in the city for quite some years, my door looked like yours, except with maybe a couple more types of locks. Locks were very important in that time of my life and, including back and front, I remember I checked no fewer that 8 locks at night before turning in.

Also, I very much agree that anything you can open with a key isn't worthy of the name "deadbolt". 'Used to be, in days of old, that deadbolt meant something you, essentially, couldn't get through -keys, picks, awls, credit cards, etc. Nothing.

 

[rd_jfc]

what i mean is a chain lock or a swing bar door guard
which turn from inside and prevent the door to open all the way so someone can't come in from outside. no key needed.
If Jennifer had either one,the door guard or chain lock, the only way he could have come inside is if he opened the door with a key and slide.his hand, jiggled it and takes the screws off.
Before,while jennifer was at work ,he came to unscrew the lock a little so it will be
easy later on to open the door

Truth posted she was able to determine that Jennifer had a deadbolt, not the chain lock.

 

[shelly111]

Truth posted she was able to determine that Jennifer had a deadbolt, not the chain lock.

rdjfc
what kind of deafbolt did jennifer had ?
thank you

 

[rd_jfc]

rdjfc
what kind of deadbolt did jennifer had ?
thank you

I don't know, but typically there are two, one with a key and one that's closed or opened from inside by turning the lock. If there's no chain lock then typically there is the hand turned inside deadbolt. But I don't know what specifically Jennifer had, just what Truth posted from her research.

thanks

 

[windrower]

JMO.

I don't think this case will be solved, nor Jennifer found, until EVERY bit of information is disclosed and examined without bias, until LE fully answers her family's questions, and until her family fully and unambiguously answers the questions put to them. For example: Why is it a secret (to us, anyway) when the call to Jennifer's boyfriend began and ended? Why is that information such as that kept from the general public? (I do understand that LE should maintain the integrity of an investigation, but after twelve years, maybe it's time to try something different.)

Start the investigation over, without ANY preconceived ideas about anyone remotely involved, including Jennifer. What does the evidence say? Let the story tell itself. Why anyone feels the need at this point to "protect" Jennifer from whatever the evidence might say is simply beyond my scope of understanding. And I don't think Jennifer was cheating on her boyfriend--but so what if she was? The only reason it would matter is if it had a direct bearing on her disappearance.

I should probably stop there. But I don't understand the reluctance to share any and all information, especially twelve years later! EVERYONE in Jennifer's life should be reexamined, even if the Kesses think someone they know just could not have harmed Jennifer.

Because someone did harm her, and it could be anyone.

In my mind, this was a night time abduction--the phones being disabled between 10:20 and 10:40 the night before Jennifer was reported missing pretty clearly show that. Especially if Jennifer ALWAYS used her phone as an alarm clock, as has been stated. Something happened that night to prevent her using her phone for an alarm, since her phone was shut down.

It has also been stated that Jennifer ALWAYS took showers before work in the morning, so she must have been abducted getting ready for work on that Tuesday morning, since the shower was damp when the family got into her apartment that afternoon.

Why is one ALWAYS (the shower) believed to be true, and not the other (the phones)? Especially if the phone pings information from that Monday night is correct. Common sense should lead us to believe whatever happened, happened that Monday night after she talked to her boyfriend.

Comments about the apartment, and how maybe things weren't how Jennifer usually had them. Well, she had just returned from a trip. Her makeup could have been out and not in its usual spot because she was unpacking and setting things out to put away later. Same for the blow dryer, and other items that seemed to be in places they were not usually kept. She obviously had not finished unpacking completely if there were still items in her bag.

Someone upthread (sorry, cannot remember who) said s\he thought someone Jennifer knew (friend, coworker, etc.) came to her door, with a reasonable request or problem that s\he needed Jennifer's help with. Jennifer probably wouldn't have felt the need to do a "safe call" because she was with someone she knew. I tend to agree with this.

Start investigating with a clean slate, no preconceived ideas about what someone certainly would or would not do, and as I said before, let the evidence tell the story. Because I think it will if given the chance without the chains of supposition holding it back.

As does any missing person and the families impacted so terribly by the unknown, Jennifer deserves to be found, and her family deserve answers and justice.

 

[windrower]

JMO.

I don't think this case will be solved, nor Jennifer found, until EVERY bit of information is disclosed and examined without bias, until LE fully answers her family's questions, and until her family fully and unambiguously answers the questions put to them. For example: Why is it a secret (to us, anyway) when the call to Jennifer's boyfriend began and ended? Why is information such as that kept from the general public? (I do understand that LE should maintain the integrity of an investigation, but after twelve years, maybe it's time to try something different.)

Start the investigation over, without ANY preconceived ideas about anyone remotely involved, including Jennifer. What does the evidence say? Let the story tell itself. Why anyone feels the need at this point to "protect" Jennifer from whatever the evidence might say is simply beyond my scope of understanding. And I don't think Jennifer was cheating on her boyfriend--but so what if she was? The only reason it would matter is if it had a direct bearing on her disappearance.

I should probably stop there. But I don't understand the reluctance to share any and all information, especially twelve years later! EVERYONE in Jennifer's life should be reexamined, even if the Kesses think someone they know just could not have harmed Jennifer.

Because someone did harm her, and it could be anyone.

In my mind, this was a night time abduction--the phones being disabled between 10:20 and 10:40 the night before Jennifer was reported missing pretty clearly show that. Especially if Jennifer ALWAYS used her phone as an alarm clock, as has been stated. Something happened that night to prevent her using her phone for an alarm, since her phone was shut down.

It has also been stated that Jennifer ALWAYS took showers before work in the morning, so she must have been abducted getting ready for work on that Tuesday morning, since the shower was damp when the family got into her apartment that afternoon.

Why is one ALWAYS (the shower) believed to be true, and not the other (the phones)? Especially if the phone pings information from that Monday night is correct. Common sense should lead us to believe whatever happened, happened that Monday night after she talked to her boyfriend.

Comments about the apartment, and how maybe things weren't how Jennifer usually had them. Well, she had just returned from a trip. Her makeup could have been out and not in its usual spot because she was unpacking and setting things out to put away later. Same for the blow dryer, and other items that seemed to be in places they were not usually kept. She obviously had not finished unpacking completely if there were still items in her bag.

Someone upthread (sorry, cannot remember who) said s\he thought someone Jennifer knew (friend, coworker, etc.) came to her door, with a reasonable request or problem that s\he needed Jennifer's help with. Jennifer probably wouldn't have felt the need to do a "safe call" because she was with someone she knew. I tend to agree with this.

Start investigating with a clean slate, no preconceived ideas about what someone certainly would or would not do, and as I said before, let the evidence tell the story. Because I think it will if given the chance without the chains of supposition holding it back.

As does any missing person and the families impacted so terribly by the unknown, Jennifer deserves to be found, and her family deserve answers and justice.