FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by wfgodot, Nov 27, 2012.

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  1. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Argument over loud music led to teen's fatal shooting, cops say (orlandosentinel.com)
    more at the link, with pictures

    ETA: Media/timeline reference thread - FL - Man alledgely shoots teen over loud music encounter in Park.Lot - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
     
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  3. tlcya

    tlcya <b><span style="color:#007C00;">WS Administrator</ Administrator

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    shades of Trayvon/Zimmerman confrontation?

    I really am not a fan of Florida's current gun laws, or maybe its simply how they are being interpreted and enforced that frightens me. Not sure.
     
  4. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Yeppers, first thought that came to mind.
     
  5. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    So they were in Jacksonville for a wedding and stopped at a convenience store, yet rather than making his purchase and leaving, the shooter felt it necessary to confront the teens over the volume of their music. (Moral: guns and girlfriends don't mix.)

    After an argument, the shooter fired "eight or nine times" into a car crowded with teenagers, killing a kid in the BACKseat! (Moral: guns and bullies don't mix.)

    Then the shooter and his girlfriend fled the scene and continued on to their Jacksonville hotel, where they learned of the killing from TV news. In response, they didn't call LE, but left abruptly and returned to the shooter's home, a couple of hours south.

    Doesn't anybody know how to dial 911 any more?
     
  6. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    This isn't anything like the TM/GZ case. If it went down the way the OS is reporting it, the kid was killed by an idiot that ran from the scene. He was then arrested and is being held without bond - how is this case even similar except for the color of their skin and the age of the victim? I see rage and probably racism here. JMO
     
  7. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    BBM: Things go so much faster when you answer your own question.

    I think the problem is private citizens carrying guns that make them "feel" like police officers--only without the training.
     
  8. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Agreeing almost totally yet not a few saw the "rage and racism" factor in Trayvon's case too. (Not trying to open up that can of worms here though.)
     
  9. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    I'm not sure what you mean, neither rage nor racism has been proven to have played a role in the TM/GZ case... but that is a different case.

    Latest article and video on the Dunn/Jordan case:
    http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...se-update-dunn-told-police-he-felt-threatened

    He should have called 911, no matter who he "felt" the teens might be affiliated with. I'm sure more of the story will come out - regardless, I see no justification for shooting a car up with teens in it and leaving the scene to hide out in a hotel room. Very slim chance he will be able to use SYG, IMO.
     
  10. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    Yes, and that was my point of stating, "if the article is accurate". Sometimes the media can be misleading - so far that seems not to be the case. Very disturbing, this one. Prayers for the boys family and the family of the other teens.
     
  11. vlpate

    vlpate Sleuther with a porpoise

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    I do agree with you here, to a certain extent - and this man is a perfect example of that - he should have ignored the music or called 911 to report the loud music, which is silly if he was about to leave. What a mess.

    I still can't help but wonder why this story makes the news and not the countless other stories of drive by shootings and senseless killings of teens and children that go on DAILY in Florida. He's not the first kid to lose his life in a senseless shooting in Jacksonville, not by a long shot, and it's doubtful he will be the last.
     
  12. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    I'm not a juror nor will I be a juror in Florida; so I'm not held to the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" in re this case.

    When white men start shooting white unarmed teenagers and claiming SYG, let's talk again.

    (I agree with you that shooting up a car full of unarmed kids is going to be tough to defend.)
     
  13. tlcya

    tlcya <b><span style="color:#007C00;">WS Administrator</ Administrator

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    young teenaged unarmed black male shot by armed white male after confrontation. Lawyers for both shooters claim self defense is the justification.

    This thread is for Jordan Russell Davis so I will not make it about TM/GZ but yes, to me there are many similarities.

    Prayers for Jordan's family.
     
  14. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    I think the SYG or potential-SYG claim makes this news. The other shootings you mention are criminal, without question. I grew up in the Florida and I can remember when they would have made the news; but there were far fewer Floridians back then.
     
  15. QueenD

    QueenD New Member

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    This happened where I live near. I know exactly where this took place. I am all for stand your ground, this guy was an idiot.
    This is defiantly not SYG. Are you kidding me? I would waste my life on shooting in a car over loud music. I say this man has some other issues.
     
  16. QueenD

    QueenD New Member

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    I recently completed my concealed weapons permit class and now have my CCW permit. The instructor really spent a lot of time on what is and isn't SYG!

    I have not bought a weapon yet cause when I do I want to know the gun inside and out on how to use. I do have an instructor just haven't made the time.

    I mainly got the permit because of being SWF and the area I work in and have to drive to work in.
     
  17. tlcya

    tlcya <b><span style="color:#007C00;">WS Administrator</ Administrator

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    I am not a gun control activist by any means, I am a huge supporter of the right to bear arms and a huge proponent of responsible gun ownership and use. I take exception with the way Florida's SYG law has been interpreted / overused / incorrectly used as an excuse to get away with murder IMO.

    Best of luck with your planned purchase, you are taking the responsibility seriously it seems. I just wish more people would.
     
  18. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    In fairness to Florida, the only SYG cases we hear about in California are those where the prosecutor decides to file charges. So if Floridians are casually shooting one another and getting away with it, it isn't making the national news.

    Note to QueenD: Thank you for your strong sense of gun responsibility.
     
  19. daisy7

    daisy7 Retired WS Staff

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    Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...t-saw-shotgun-shot-self-defense#ixzz2DX9uDWpF

    If he thought he was really shooting in self-defense, why did he leave?
     
  20. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    OT
    You are doing the right thing and planning your purchase + training.

    I have been a responsible gun owner + CC permit owner for many years and the key is I hope to never have to ever use a gun in self defense. The nice thing is I know I have the protection I need in the very rare situation that it would ever be needed. The bottom line is my life would have to be on the line before I would ever go for my weapon, and that is a very rare situation and luckily has never happened, and hopefully never will happen.

    As far as the type of weapon, just be sure it fits comfortable in your hand, and be sure you know ALL the safety features and how it works. Then, take it to the range and practice as much as you need to until it becomes second nature in using it. It takes quite a lot of shooting practice to become very comfortable with it. The small foam earplugs are great and cheap.

    This is just my opinion, but for inexperienced gun owners, sometimes a revolver is the better option because of the simplicity of its use and to me it is a safer weapon. Semi-automatics are a little more complex in their use. Some females find it difficult to cycle the action to load a round in a sem-automatic, where the revolvers loading is simple.
    The main thing is to not let anyone choose for you. Pick whatever you are most comfortable with and can learn to operate it until it is second nature.
    And, of course, always keep it out of the reach of any children that could visit or come over. I have a huge gun safe where I keep all my weapons if any visitors are coming over. I never allow any guns to be out of the safe if anybody is in the house.

    Anyway, good luck and do whatever you feel is best. Some people decide to never own a gun and I totally understand that. I have been brought up as a child to learn to use them, so the training part for me was very early and has helped me become a safe responsible gun owner.
     
  21. Steely Dan

    Steely Dan Former Member

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    BBM

    We have people in Florida who've been kicked out of police academy, paranoids who see boogeymen around every corner, racists of all colors, superhero wannabes, and a myriad of other people who shouldn't be carrying guns without mandatory extensive training.

    In some cases the only person who can say what happened is the one who shot the other. I'm guessing in every case where that happens it turns out that the shooter's story is that he/she was justified.

    It's possible that this story is treated with more coverage because it's such a :censored: up thing to do. Most of us get gang violence. I'm not saying it's right, just that most understand that gangs hate each other and kill each other.

    It's not every day that you hear about a guy shooting another guy because he was playing loud music at a 7-11. This is the first case of this happening that I can remember in my 48 years on this earth. Weird stories have a way of working into the news cycle because they're more interesting. It also shows another case of the misuse of handguns in society by a registered handgun user. Which is a hot topic since the TM shooting.

    As noted below, if he was in the right then why did he run? Why didn't he call the police right after the shooting to report it. Supposedly he has an airtight reason for doing it. My answer to that question is that he probably just got angry and shot the kid for mouthing off to him.

    My favorite part of this article;

    ...“He acted the way any responsible firearms owner would act in a similar situation because a shotgun was aimed at him,” she said.

    Jacksonville police said no weapon was found in the car.

    “How hard did they look,” Lemonidis said. “Have they done an entire search?”...


    She's got a point. A cop could have just shined a flashlight into the car and decided there was no shotgun. They probably didn't look under the seats or in the back or in the front or under the car. They probably never interviewed any witness' or looked at the videotape from the 7-11 outside cam, I'm pretty sure it would have one, (All of the 7-11 in my area have them.) and they probably didn't look for evidence of how the shooting occurred. I'm sure when someone is killed with a gun the cops just let it go. :rolleyes:
     
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