FL - Latifa, 46, & Maksmilla Lincoln, 3, hazmat deaths, 2 June 2016

Discussion in 'Bizarre and Off-Beat News' started by debirlfan, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. debirlfan

    debirlfan New Member

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    Not sure if this is the right place for this, but it's certainly bizarre.

    Woman and child found dead in vehicle on highway, when police break into vehicle they're confronted by some sort of very powerful fumes. Three police taken to hospital for treatment (later released). Entire car with bodies still inside apparently hauled off to medical examiner. Police are saying very little about this. Reportedly NOT drug related. A quick google shows lots of stories, this is one of the most extensive:
    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-turnpike-hazmat-reports-20160722-story.html
    another story with video here:
    http://www.wesh.com/news/turnpike-closed-due-to-crash-in-osceola-county/39868866
     
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  3. meanmaryjean

    meanmaryjean Verified RN (Pediatrics Specialty)

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    What the actual heck?
     
  4. eucalyptuz

    eucalyptuz Well-Known Member

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    Awful.
    This report says they suspect carbon monoxide and that the car showed recent signs of repair/service:
    http://www.wftv.com/news/local/sour...he-likely-died-from-carbon-monoxide/328786342

    So perhaps a leaky exhaust repair causing the driver to become drowsy and running off the road and then becoming unconscious before being able to rescue herself and child?
     
  5. eucalyptuz

    eucalyptuz Well-Known Member

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  6. debirlfan

    debirlfan New Member

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    I don't buy it. Police reported a strong odor coming from the car - strong enough that they moved everyone at least 200 or 250 feet away. Carbon monoxide is odorless.

    On the other hand, a repair could have damaged the battery, assuming it was lithium battery powered car. I've been doing some reading, and apparently there is some nasty stuff in those batteries - some associated with a strong odor.

    It appears they were coming from the Las Vegas area - I wonder where she bought the car and how long she'd been driving it?
     
  7. meanmaryjean

    meanmaryjean Verified RN (Pediatrics Specialty)

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    CO poisoning would account for the red skin - but not the 'rash' and vomiting the article describes. And a post-mortem exam can measure CO level in the blood.

    But the puzzling part is that CO is odorless- which is why it kills. The noxious fumes make no sense. And the mechanic's slip would be a standard part of the buy here/ pay here type of place from which she purchased the vehicle. I am truly puzzled.
     
  8. Indy Anna

    Indy Anna Well-Known Member

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  9. meanmaryjean

    meanmaryjean Verified RN (Pediatrics Specialty)

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    The carbon tetrachloride theory is not going anywhere IMHO- it is long-term exposure that makes it dangerous. And this being a new (to them) car seems like it had to be timed release as they had (if I'm reading this correctly) purchased it in Vegas and driven it to FL.

    Tragic- and fascinating at the same time.
     
  10. meanmaryjean

    meanmaryjean Verified RN (Pediatrics Specialty)

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    Anything new on this?
     
  11. debirlfan

    debirlfan New Member

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    I've been looking, and can't find a thing. I don't know if they're waiting for lab results, or if the powers that be are just hoping everyone forgets about this. If it -was- a battery problem, maybe they're keeping it quiet so they don't panic people.
     
  12. debirlfan

    debirlfan New Member

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    Finally a couple new stories - although not much new info. Definitely doesn't sound like CO.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-turnpike-hazmat-records-20160804-story.html

    http://www.wftv.com/news/local/dead...olving-mother-child-still-a-mystery/417243909

    http://www.wesh.com/news/voicemail-released-in-floridas-turnpike-deaths-of-mother-child/41043772

    The two videos show car repair papers that were in the car. I know some here are good at enhancing photos - can anyone tell what work was done on the car?
     
  13. Indy Anna

    Indy Anna Well-Known Member

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    From a link in debirlfan's post:

    [snipped]

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-turnpike-hazmat-records-20160804-story.html

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    I wasn't able to see the type or date of service for car repairs. I also don't know a lot about cars. But, if the car's air filter had been replaced when it was serviced, and a toxic chemical was accidentally spilled on the filter either at the repair shop or manufacturer, how long would it take the chemical to circulate through the air ducts, i.e., at a high enough concentration to be lethal? I'm sure it would depend on the toxin and the amount spilled on the filter, right?
     
  14. meanmaryjean

    meanmaryjean Verified RN (Pediatrics Specialty)

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    Formaldehyde would not cause the burning sensation- it stinks to be sure, but is not caustic. Ammonia? Maybe? But why would she not roll down the windows? She must have been quickly overcome. I'm still leaning something time-released in the vehicle. Something poisonous, planted by ?????
     
  15. Indy Anna

    Indy Anna Well-Known Member

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    I wonder who she was in contact with that day. Possibly it was planted but she may have had her windows down earlier and just turned on the A/C. Apparently, though, even with the doors open LE could not get close to the car.
     
  16. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    Interesting case.

    I was wondering if she had recently exited the turnpike to have the car serviced and was just back on the road traveling. But the name and address on the car repair receipts (which was the only thing of importance that I could actually read - Pep Boys 10548 Atlantic Blvd, Jacksonville, FL) is quite a distance from mile marker 224.

    Anyone know if the bodies have been released to the family?? Anyone found obits??

    Is the ME awaiting (additional/in-depth) tox reports??

    Lastly, per the OSHA link below it does appear there are symptoms associated with formaldehyde exposure, but... I really don't have the brain space nor patience to figure out parts per million, length of exposure, etc

    Acute Exposure

    1. Inhalation (breathing): Formaldehyde is highly irritating to the upper airways. The concentration of formaldehyde that is immediately dangerous to life and health is 100 ppm. Concentrations above 50 ppm can cause severe pulmonary reactions within minutes. These include pulmonary edema, pneumonia, and bronchial irritation which can result in death. Concentrations above 5 ppm readily cause lower airway irritation characterized by cough, chest tightness and wheezing. There is some controversy regarding whether formaldehyde gas is a pulmonary sensitizer which can cause occupational asthma in a previously normal individual. Formaldehyde can produce symptoms of bronchial asthma in humans. The mechanism may be either sensitization of the individual by exposure to formaldehyde or direct irritation by formaldehyde in persons with pre-existing asthma. Upper airway irritation is the most common respiratory effect reported by workers and can occur over a wide range of concentrations, most frequently above 1 ppm. However, airway irritation has occurred in some workers with exposures to formaldehyde as low as 0.1 ppm. Symptoms of upper airway irritation include dry or sore throat, itching and burning sensations of the nose, and nasal congestion. Tolerance to this level of exposure may develop within 1-2 hours. This tolerance can permit workers remaining in an environment of gradually increasing formaldehyde concentrations to be unaware of their increasingly hazardous exposure.

    2. Eye contact: Concentrations of formaldehyde between 0.05 ppm and 0.5 ppm produce a sensation of irritation in the eyes with burning, itching, redness, and tearing. Increased rate of blinking and eye closure generally protects the eye from damage at these low levels, but these protective mechanisms may interfere with some workers' work abilities. Tolerance can occur in workers continuously exposed to concentrations of formaldehyde in this range. Accidental splash injuries of human eyes to aqueous solutions of formaldehyde (formalin) have resulted in a wide range of ocular injuries including corneal opacities and blindness. The severity of the reactions have been directly dependent on the concentration of formaldehyde in solution and the amount of time lapsed before emergency and medical intervention.

    3. Skin contact: Exposure to formaldehyde solutions can cause irritation of the skin and allergic contact dermatitis. These skin diseases and disorders can occur at levels well below those encountered by many formaldehyde workers. Symptoms include erythema, edema, and vesiculation or hives. Exposure to liquid formalin or formaldehyde vapor can provoke skin reactions in sensitized individuals even when airborne concentrations of formaldehyde are well below 1 ppm.

    https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10078
     
  17. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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  18. debirlfan

    debirlfan New Member

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    Based on some of the speculation on one of the Facebook posts, I'm wondering if the car was a hybrid, and if so, if it could have been a leaking/damaged battery? I'm not a chemical engineer, but from what I read online it sounds as if there's some really noxious stuff in those batteries. If there was work done on the car, maybe something wasn't tightened, or the battery was damaged somehow and started leaking? I could see the police playing it close to the vest if that were the case - the manufacturer probably wouldn't appreciate them publicizing a "defective battery" if it was something an auto shop had done wrong and not a manufacturing problem.
     
  19. debirlfan

    debirlfan New Member

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    Some speculation in the comments of the most recent Orlando Sentinel article (linked above) that the car could have been a diesel. Also a theory that -could- explain CO deaths and a strong odor in the car (initial cause of odor also causing exhaust to be backed up into the car. Interesting.
     
  20. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it seems to be related to Adblue (DEF - diesel exhaust fluid) leak

    ETA: I keep thinking the ammonia exposure should be fairly easy to detect by the medical examiner IF that's what caused their deaths. IDK?
     
  21. meanmaryjean

    meanmaryjean Verified RN (Pediatrics Specialty)

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    But diesel would be a recognizable smell to a patrol officer- to almost anyone really. And CO is odorless- neither would be what they described 'caustic'.

    I. Am. Truly. Baffled.
     

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