FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

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jjenny

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Sounds like none of the common drugs were found in his system, so FBI is now doing the testing for less common drugs. Hopefully they are doing tests for steroids. Steroid use can cause "roid rage" and also unmask an underlying psychiatric disorder.

'I can anonymously attest that this guy had gotten bigger and bigger at alarming rates throughout our first year of college.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lesh-victim-s-face-abdomen.html#ixzz4Hz7AAVZE
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Jax49

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Florida has a Baker Act, if they tried they could have sent him for a 48 eval. Doesn't seem they even tried though. But, that will all come out in trial soon enough.

Totally agree. Baker Acting isn't as difficult as people believe.
 

Jax49

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And he reportedly gave police a fake name-suggests he knew what he was doing was wrong (if perp knows right from wrong, by definition perp is not legally insane).

Thank you. I had missed that detail.
 

jjenny

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It might be harder in other states but I found Florida to have the easiest process.

As far as I can tell from what has been reported, he wasn't threatening anyone. Is claiming to have superpowers enough to have one committed?
 

cece5300

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And he reportedly gave police a fake name-suggests he knew what he was doing was wrong (if perp knows right from wrong, by definition perp is not legally insane).

I am not intending to defend this animal, BUT the ID he had on him was a fake ID (it said his name was Austin Moore). Frighteningly enough, many college students have fake IDs. I'm assuming that's what they mean by saying he gave police a fake name. I could be wrong! But I read that's why it took so long for police to ID him. His mom called police 3 hours after he left the Duffy's, but by then he'd already committed the horrible acts, and they just hadn't put the pieces together because they didn't have his right name.
 

Curious Me

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He didn't threaten to hurt himself or others in all the things he said that week.

I wonder if there's more to what he said at the restaurant before he left. Why'd his mother call police 3 hrs. after he left the restaurant? He'd said strange things for a week, but nothing about killing people, yet that night she finally called police.
 

LolaMoon08

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I am also not willing to give him the "insane" defense yet.

For all I know, his ego was severely bruised because he went from a High School Star Athlete from a small Florida town and he just wasn't good enough to make the cut in College. He was probably pampered his entire life and more than likely got away with a lot of things we don't know about. I am sure he felt like a "Big Man" in his little town and High School, but College is a much bigger pond and I could see where he probably didn't fit in with the people he wanted to fit in with. He could have turned to steroids, alcohol and any number of lesser known drugs (even prescription with his father being a doctor).

I'll wait until toxicology tests come back.
 

Jax49

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As far as I can tell from what has been reported, he wasn't threatening anyone. Is claiming to have superpowers enough to have one committed?

I'm no expert, but my opinion is it would be sufficient to at least get an evaluation done. He might have been released before 48 hours, but at least they could have tried.
 

Ray_of_hope

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"Harrouff sustained serious injuries during his arrest and underwent surgery on his hand after the attack. He remains hospitalized in stable condition, but he has not yet given police a statement because he is on a breathing tube that prevents him from speaking."

He may have also sustained serious injuries to his hand as he was stabbing the victims with his own knife, IMO.

So Harrouff was found several miles away from the diner where he had attacked his victims. Certainly plenty of time to have let off steam for "slow service".
I guess they're also looking at N-Bomb, "considered the world’s deadliest designer drug. N-bomb, promoted as an LSD substitute, killed at least 19 people between 2012 and 2013, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse."

The bizarre ramblings re: having superpowers and being immortal by Harrouff may be indicators of a psychotic manic break possibly exacerbated by drug use. This is so very bizarre. I feel so sorry for the victims and their loved ones. How can anyone possibly make sense of such a bizarre tragedy?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...couple-dared-cops-drug-test-article-1.2759161
 

Vail

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They stuck a K9 on him, which is my guess for his injuries (among other things like his general state of mind etc)
 

iridized

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As far as I can tell from what has been reported, he wasn't threatening anyone. Is claiming to have superpowers enough to have one committed?
No it isn't. Clearwater Florida is full of Scientologists who claim to have superpowers.
 

SeesSeas

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It's very hard to commit someone even when parents know their offspring is mentally ill. Him saying he was a superhero wouldn't get him committed, he has to be a known danger to himself or others. As he wasn't saying he was going to kill people and chew their face off, I don't think parents could have gotten him committed.
Yes jjenny – You are correct. Parents could not have easily gotten AH committed.
Involuntary admission of a person under the statutory criteria of The Baker Act in Florida is challenging.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0300-0399/0394/Sections/0394.463.html

The 2016 Florida Statutes
PUBLIC HEALTH | MENTAL HEALTH
394.451 Short title.—This part shall be known as “The Florida Mental Health Act” or “The Baker Act.”
394.463 Involuntary examination.—
(2) INVOLUNTARY EXAMINATION.—
(a) An involuntary examination may be initiated by any one of the following means:
1. A circuit or county court may enter an ex parte order stating that a person appears to meet the criteria for involuntary examination and specifying the findings on which that conclusion is based. The ex parte order for involuntary examination must be based on written or oral sworn testimony that includes specific facts that support the findings. . . […]
2. A law enforcement officer shall take a person who appears to meet the criteria for involuntary examination into custody and deliver the person or have him or her delivered to an appropriate, or the nearest, facility within the designated receiving system pursuant to s. 394.462 for examination. . . […]
3. A physician, clinical psychologist, psychiatric nurse, mental health counselor, marriage and family therapist, or clinical social worker may execute a certificate stating that he or she has examined a person within the preceding 48 hours and finds that the person appears to meet the criteria for involuntary examination and stating the observations upon which that conclusion is based. … […]
 

Caffeine

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They stuck a K9 on him, which is my guess for his injuries (among other things like his general state of mind etc)
True. Although, the surgery on his hand I believe was from his use of a weapon, maybe his pocket knife.

I believe it was mentioned that he ingested something that caused an problem with his health...I'm definitely interested in the report once he leaves the hospital.
 

LolaMoon08

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"Harrouff sustained serious injuries during his arrest and underwent surgery on his hand after the attack. He remains hospitalized in stable condition, but he has not yet given police a statement because he is on a breathing tube that prevents him from speaking."

He may have also sustained serious injuries to his hand as he was stabbing the victims with his own knife, IMO.

So Harrouff was found several miles away from the diner where he had attacked his victims. Certainly plenty of time to have let off steam for "slow service".
I guess they're also looking at N-Bomb, "considered the world’s deadliest designer drug. N-bomb, promoted as an LSD substitute, killed at least 19 people between 2012 and 2013, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse."

The bizarre ramblings re: having superpowers and being immortal by Harrouff may be indicators of a psychotic manic break possibly exacerbated by drug use. This is so very bizarre. I feel so sorry for the victims and their loved ones. How can anyone possibly make sense of such a bizarre tragedy?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...couple-dared-cops-drug-test-article-1.2759161

In earlier reports, they were saying he was in such bad shape from whatever he had ingested which made it sound like nothing the officers did caused the injuries that put him in such critical health. So, now it's because of dog bites and knife injuries he sustained during his murderous rampage? :gaah:
 

glf

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Actually three people-two killed and one wounded.
He was described as abnormally strong. He is an athlete, young, fit. So not that hard for him to kill 2 people and wound another one..
Too bad the neighbor wasn't armed with a baseball bat!
 

glf

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Not sure how the mom overlooked her son telling her for a week that he had super natural powers....
If one of mine said that, I would ask what kind of weird movie had they watched, smell their breath to find out if they had been drinking, and then if it continued, take them to the doctor!
 

ohreally

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I havent read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned. A few years ago there was a man in Miami that was (wish there was a gentler way to put it) eating a man's face. He was thought to of taken 'bath salts'. They were never able to find anything in his system but cannibas. I wonder if there is some new drug out there that is not detected during any drug testing. One of the things that makes me question that is in this case he says they will not find any drugs in his system. Also interesting is that Jupiter is only one and a half hours from Miami. Is it possible for a new drug out their that there is not a way to detect it yet? The Miami case can be found by googling Miami cannibal attack to see if anyone thinks there could be a link.
 
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