FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

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Have we ever got confirmed who was killed first or did we come to that conclusion cause of her location and how media "reported" it??

I have wondered if she was out there alone, at first, and there was some sexual attempt (underwear) and he drove up or came out to protect her

I wish we knew EXACTLY where each of the victims were located, other than in driveway and in the garage? Where exactly- does anyone know??

And the whole deal in the beginning with shorts being found nearby , and then supposedly not being not related- that is one heck of a coincidence for the same color shorts to be found in a gated community (as opposed to an ally) and then vanishing??


Pretty early on the Duffys video was out there, so why would someone not call (reporters that found them is really dumb IMO) and not think hummm a block away huge crime, we know suspect in white shorts, and they don't immediately contact LE and just let them sit there??

There also remains the mystery of if attually attended last semester. They said he did not live in the frat house. Noone has come up with an apartment neighbor? They said not in the dorm



Moms the whole semester?????????????????????Parents not wanting to say he started having a lot of trouble last semester and he took one off?? Parents minimized that ???? Cause it might indicate that his problems started becoming noticeable much earlier and they did , as far as we know, not attempt to have evaluated??

This (semester off?) would help the total lack of any comments by peer related folks except from quite some time ago?

Can anyone come with a reason why tox screen remains a secret - we know who the perp is?

speculation
 


.What the heck is this?

Prosecutors filed Sunday a demand for Harrouff’s alibi for 9:30 p.m. Aug. 15, showing he wasn't at 19010 Kokomo Lane, where's he's accused of killing two people.

Actual document\

http://media.local10.com/document_dev/2016/11/15/docketimage_1479226952656_8342812_ver1.0.pdf

Local 10 News reporter Shyann Malone spoke with Fisher's father, Steve Fisher, who also witnessed the attack. I do not remember this part?
"I saw that guy on top of John and I thought they were wrestling, and come to find out it was something else," he said.


Sooooooooooooo, does this mean the defense has given them a sense that they are gonna say he was not there?

How can that even be - LE drove up on him---- "on him"


help?

http://www.local10.com/news/crime/prosecutors-seek-alibi-from-face-eating-suspect-austin-harrouff-

attorney Robert Watson Tuesday.

Watson waived his 19-year-old client’s appearance for arraignment that was scheduled for Wednesday morning and asked for a trial by jury.
 
It was stated early on Michelle was found in the garage, I believe John was in the hard or driveway. I can't imagine him trying to say he has an alibi. Refer to my post on previous page. That's as good as it gets, for me, anyway.
This trial will probably have a lot of sensationalism...may save tox screen to come out at trial to keep everybody's attention focused on Austin. Poor little teenager, is mentally I'll, and blacked out and killed two people, or whatever.
 
There's a big difference in the words "mentally ill" and "legal mental insanity".

AH was making slightly odd videos and acting rather strange, but we really don't know why. It seems wrong to only have his videos as a way to diagnose him now. (Yeah, he killed people, but he was insane cause he made odd videos.) Some of what he was saying about superpowers could be from him taking drugs. Yes, he was having some mental disturbances, but we don't know enough to deem him mentally insane. No one in his own family or circle of friends has stated he was acting anything but odd. As far as I know, he was never diagnosed with any mental illness or ever saw a professional in the mental health field.

He's a murderer now. He brutally murdered two people and he seemed to know what he had done. I need convincing on him using the legal mental insanity defense because just about every criminal wants to claim that after they commit horrible crimes.

Just my own doubts, thoughts, and opinions.
 
CARIIS said:


.What the heck is this?

Prosecutors filed Sunday a demand for Harrouff’s alibi for 9:30 p.m. Aug. 15, showing he wasn't at 19010 Kokomo Lane, where's he's accused of killing two people.

Actual document\

http://media.local10.com/document_dev/2016/11/15/docketimage_1479226952656_8342812_ver1.0.pdf

Local 10 News reporter Shyann Malone spoke with Fisher's father, Steve Fisher, who also witnessed the attack. I do not remember this part?
"I saw that guy on top of John and I thought they were wrestling, and come to find out it was something else," he said.


Sooooooooooooo, does this mean the defense has given them a sense that they are gonna say he was not there?

How can that even be - LE drove up on him---- "on him"


help?

http://www.local10.com/news/crime/prosecutors-seek-alibi-from-face-eating-suspect-austin-harrouff-

attorney Robert Watson Tuesday.

Watson waived his 19-year-old client’s appearance for arraignment that was scheduled for Wednesday morning and asked for a trial by jury.
Click to expand...
What on earth is this about I wonder? :thinking:
He was arrested there, he was there. There was the other man who tried to help and was attacked, he seen him. Police and I assume medics and so on seen him there. Am I reading this wrong...?
 
Curious Me said:
There's a big difference in the words "mentally ill" and "legal mental insanity".

AH was making slightly odd videos and acting rather strange, but we really don't know why. It seems wrong to only have his videos as a way to diagnose him now. (Yeah, he killed people, but he was insane cause he made odd videos.) Some of what he was saying about superpowers could be from him taking drugs. Yes, he was having some mental disturbances, but we don't know enough to deem him mentally insane. No one in his own family or circle of friends has stated he was acting anything but odd. As far as I know, he was never diagnosed with any mental illness or ever saw a professional in the mental health field.

He's a murderer now. He brutally murdered two people and he seemed to know what he had done. I need convincing on him using the legal mental insanity defense because just about every criminal wants to claim that after they commit horrible crimes.

Just my own doubts, thoughts, and opinions.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%.
HUGE jump between the two. Mental illness is real, yes. So is insanity but two different animals.
This was a horrific crime, he did it. Period. They need some very good people in the mental health field to sort this out, hopefully the prosecution is already on this. We do want a correct diagnosis.

I do want to add... IF he voluntarily used illegal drugs, flakka or whatever... that was HIS choice as an adult to do, and anything he did while under influence of said drug, can't be excused because of the drug. That is simply MO.
 
I've loosely followed this case, and I know people who work in our regional mental hospital. Some may know better but others have such horrible impulse control that they are dangerous. Especially if they are paranoids, schizophrenics, or a combo of the two. We're talking seriously deranged people who's minds have gone round the bend. They have to have staff shadow some of them to ensure that they don't get out of hand, even w/meds. AH was 19. There was not a darn thing his parents could do once he hit 18, if he didn't want to seek treatment or take meds. The mental health resources in the U.S. are rather lacking, too.
 
I know in Kansas, if an adult needs alcohol or drug treatment, a family member can get help having them committed for tx, thru the county govt, and mental health. However, I don't know for certain if that could be done just for mental health reasons or not. And, of course, every state is different.
 
glf said:
I know in Kansas, if an adult needs alcohol or drug treatment, a family member can get help having them committed for tx, thru the county govt, and mental health. However, I don't know for certain if that could be done just for mental health reasons or not. And, of course, every state is different.
Click to expand...

I think you can have family committed if you can prove that they are an imminent threat to causing bodily harm to themselves and/or others. That's not all that easy to prove though.
 
Something just occurred to me, that should have a long time ago. Austin was just at his mother's and drank cooking oil an hour or so before the murders. Street drugs DID NOT show up in his initial blood tests, despite the fact he admitted to smoking pot and drinking that day. I wonder if the oil had anything to do with throwing the tests off? If that is possible, did the FBI find anything in his blood stream? The sample the hosp would have drawn would have been shortly after he was admitted. I wonder how long it was before a sample was drawn and sent to the FBI lab? If we have any lab techs on this forum, plz help!
 
glf said:
Something just occurred to me, that should have a long time ago. Austin was just at his mother's and drank cooking oil an hour or so before the murders. Street drugs DID NOT show up in his initial blood tests, despite the fact he admitted to smoking pot and drinking that day. I wonder if the oil had anything to do with throwing the tests off? If that is possible, did the FBI find anything in his blood stream? The sample the hosp would have drawn would have been shortly after he was admitted. I wonder how long it was before a sample was drawn and sent to the FBI lab? If we have any lab techs on this forum, plz help!
Click to expand...

Yes, some important questions need to be answered to determine AH's state of mind. LE thought he acted like he was on flakka, or on some wild new drug, and not that he was mentally insane. It also could've been roid rage. Sorry, if I sound like a broken record, but I think it matters what he put in his system, too, before we go right to the mental insanity defense. .

:drink: Why guzzle oil? Is there any logical reason he left the restaurant the first time, walked to his mother's to drink oil? His mother made him add parmesan cheese to the oil. Nobody sounds aware of what's really going on in these stories leading up to the crimes, or maybe this kid always acted a little strange. Anyways, I think his father mentioned AH suddenly disappearing other times that week. Was he going off to do some pot? Was the pot hidden over at Mom's? Where'd he drink alcohol? Did he drink on the walk with his father that day? Did he do the pot with any family members or friends that day or evening? I've never heard of any oil masking drug tests. What about other drugs? What about his steroid use?

His father grabbed him by the collar at the restaurant and said, "What's wrong with you?" So, was he just acting stoned on pot or drunk, or having a psychotic break from reality?
 
Did the FBI release any results of the blood work or is it still confidential?

Thanks,
GeeEm~
 
Jax49 said:
"just kill me, I want to die", "kill me, kill me, shoot me, I deserve to die", etc.

He could have skipped killing two people and almost killing a third if all he wanted was to die...SMH.
Click to expand...

You got that right Jax49!!! SMH too!

Such a L O S E R!

Thanks,
GeeEm ~

jmo
 
FBI reportedly has finished testing, but nothing has been released.
 
Curious Me said:
Yes, some important questions need to be answered to determine AH's state of mind. LE thought he acted like he was on flakka, or on some wild new drug, and not that he was mentally insane. It also could've been roid rage. Sorry, if I sound like a broken record, but I think it matters what he put in his system, too, before we go right to the mental insanity defense. .

:drink: Why guzzle oil? Is there any logical reason he left the restaurant the first time, walked to his mother's to drink oil? His mother made him add parmesan cheese to the oil. Nobody sounds aware of what's really going on in these stories leading up to the crimes, or maybe this kid always acted a little strange. Anyways, I think his father mentioned AH suddenly disappearing other times that week. Was he going off to do some pot? Was the pot hidden over at Mom's? Where'd he drink alcohol? Did he drink on the walk with his father that day? Did he do the pot with any family members or friends that day or evening? I've never heard of any oil masking drug tests. What about other drugs? What about his steroid use?

His father grabbed him by the collar at the restaurant and said, "What's wrong with you?" So, was he just acting stoned on pot or drunk, or having a psychotic break from reality?
Click to expand...

BBM

It is rumored that drinking cooking/vegetable oil will allow you to drink more alcohol before getting drunk. Another reason for drinking the cooking oil is, that some folks who are trying to "bulk up" will drink it to get their allotted calorie content. He may have put the Parmesan in it to help with the taste, and get it down. Some people trying to bulk up will try to get in the amount of daily calories that would cause me to weigh a metric ton in about three months. Just a thought, since he was into body building from what I recall. As I said, I'm following kinda loosely so please forgive if this has been mentioned.

As far as pot, it won't make you chew someone's face off, nor stab them to death. Synthetic pot, possibly.
 
Here I go with something that will definitely give my age away! I used to watch Quincy, M.E. re-runs in the mid 80's thru mid 90's, after I became interested in the medical field. Quincy was so well studied,cyou could pretty much bank on what they said as being backed up with science. One of the episodes had a man brought in for an autopsy, and several hours after the stated TOD, the man wasn't showing signs of rigor mortis, and, they were having problems with blood samples under the microscope. They discovered he had mineral oil (alot) throughout his blood stream and tissues. THAT did stop the rigor, and, cause the blood cells to have strange anomalies. That's why I wish we had a lab tech to tell us if this could also be accomplished with cooking oil. I do know mineral oil is heavier than cooking oil, but in large quantities, might be able to alter test results?
 
Interesting glf.

After rsd1200 mentioned the rumor that oil might be used to drink longer before getting drunk, I found an interesting article that suggests that dry active yeast would add an enzyme that would do that. I'll pass it on as another rumor. I don't even drink, so I can't test it.

Since active dry yeast contains ADH, if we consume it before drinking, the enzyme will be able to attack the alcohol in the stomach first—before it gets into the bloodstream and ultimately the liver.

http://food-hacks.wonderhowto.com/h...all-night-long-without-getting-drunk-0154713/
Click to expand...

It's true, rsd1200, that people drink oil to gain bulk, lose weight, have bowel movements, induce labor, and reasons I haven't thought of yet. It's the same with Apple Cider Vinegar, or Tea Tree Oil, where there's lists of hundreds of remedies people swear by. AH's father made it sound like a strange, new behavior AH was doing, but maybe he'd done it before to bulk up.
 
Checked for updates this morn, couldn't find anything even recent, much less new. I get the feeling this is going to fade into the woodwork until something judicial starts happening.
 
That is how it goes...we wait and wait on the legal system. I have 4 cases I am following that are stalled out until something legal and worthy of taking note of happens.
 
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