FL - Ryan Rogers, 14, fatally stabbed, Palm Beach Gardens, 16 Nov 2021 *Arrest*

BeginnerSleuther

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I think mentally ill people can also be evil. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Most mentally ill people aren’t murderers. Even with paranoid delusions, many schizoid/schizophrenic people know right from wrong. I would say that Williams is not only mentally ill, but evil.

So schizoid isn't a mental illness, per se (at least not a severe mental illness). It's a personality disorder. It's called Schizoid Personality Disorder and these people are not psychotic. They avoid people because they like being alone, but they are fully functional individuals. They have problems with trusting others that can look like paranoia, but they are not the type who think the government is bugging their phones. It's a different thing than schizophrenia (as is schizotypal which is also a personality disorder).
 

BeginnerSleuther

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We're a hell of a lot closer to YouTube channels with hours of the rantings of insane people, who in hindsight turn out to be murderers than we are to a five part TV News documentary from 1968. The social media presence of these people gets locked down awfully fast but more and more often not before it gets archived. Regardless of or despite the cultural agenda, people are becoming increasingly aware of problems that fifty years ago were common knowledge.

Absolutely not true. I'd be curious to see some of these rantings because the vast majority of murderers are NOT mentally ill. They're just not. That's based on evidence. The way we did things 50 years ago was WRONG by all standards of humanity and human rights. What happened to this young boy was awful, but to suggest this is common is just plain factually inaccurate and unfair to the mentally ill community.
 

BeginnerSleuther

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As much as it's a tragedy the how's and the why's Ryan died, calling a mentally ill person a monster is demonizing a segment of the population who suffer from mental illness. Especially, when there is no plan in place to help these people.

Psychiatric Illness And Criminality - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

When a person with schizophrenia kills someone schizophrenics are demonized. When a person with autism or Asperger's kills someone they are demonized. When good old Joe from down the street kills someone? Meh. Why is that? Because that old saying, There but for the grace of God....the only people the general population can relate to is good old Joe. And because most murderers don't suffer from any kind of mental illness.

Violence and mental illness: an overview

When people like Semmie Williams kill someone the issue of them falling through the cracks comes up. The crack must be a fissure a mile wide because there is no proper system in place to deal with them. They are left to their own devices.

I'm not making excuses for SW; he probably snuffed out the life of a vibrant, intelligent young man. But is it enough that we incarcerate people when they finally commit murder when the warning signs have been evident for decades?

Psychiatrists evaluate for dangerousness in every meeting with every patient. If one is deemed to be an imminent danger to himself or others, then they are admitted on a psychiatric hold and sent to a psych hospital for full evaluation. In most states, the hospital psychiatrist has 48-72 hours to complete the eval. If the patient is not dangerous, they are released. If the patient is still deemed to be dangerous, then the psychiatrist files for a court hearing, usually held within a week, and a judge rules on involuntary commitment.

For individuals who are not an imminent threat, but may be if they don't take their meds, we have community commitments, which mean that the individual can live in the community, but is required to take meds. So for monthly antipsychotic injectables, the patient is generally picked up by a law enforcement officer and brought to the clinic for a shot. If the patient flees, then they usually end up homeless and fall through the cracks.
 

Seattle1

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Also, can someone point me to where it was confirmed this guy has a mental health diagnosis or condition? Are we all going by his rantings? Because that doesn't prove a mental health diagnosis.
^^rsbm

ITeam News 12 also questioned whether or not SW had a diagnosed mental condition and if so -- how did he manage to get released early and often...

I Team: Semmie Williams criminal history
 

007mom

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Since I have not seen it mentioned yet, I wanted to share some quick observations that I picked up from Semmie’s comments in his YouTube videos. Note that these comments were random and did not come from one specific video. Instead, as I listened to the videos, I listened specifically for things that I hoped would give me some kind of insight as to why Semmie might feel threatened by Ryan and/or why he would attack someone so obviously innocent and who would not have been a threat to Semmie in any way. These are just a few of the things I heard Semmie say. Note that I’m paraphrasing. I didn’t write down actual quotes as I intended to do so later. I didn’t consider that YouTube would remove his account. Semmie’s world view was loaded with symbolism.

1. People wearing black and yellow are racists and want to harm/kill him. He would consistently point people out wearing these colors. Unfortunately, based on mom’s description of Ryan’s clothing that night, he was wearing a black hoodie with yellow Barcelona writing on it, black shorts, and black Nike shoes.

2. People on bikes, skateboards, and scooters were working for “bad” law enforcement and were a part of the group spying on him and gang stalking him. One bike got too close to him and Semmie reacted and said something to the guy about it. He became confrontational and the bike rider ignored him and kept going.

3. Semmie said that “bad” law enforcement used children to help them stalk and mentally torture him. He said that was indicative of how evil these people are.

A person who is mentally healthy would quickly see that Semmie lived in a perpetual state of paranoia. These comments were taken from his videos cumulatively and not one specific video. But these three things may have possibly been why Semmie saw sweet Ryan as a threat. It makes my heart break to think what Ryan must have faced when he encountered Semmie. Semmie exists in a heightened state of fear that most everyone around him wanted to harm or kill him. Just some food for thought for those studying this case and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.
 

scriabina

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Since I have not seen it mentioned yet, I wanted to share some quick observations that I picked up from Semmie’s comments in his YouTube videos. Note that these comments were random and did not come from one specific video. Instead, as I listened to the videos, I listened specifically for things that I hoped would give me some kind of insight as to why Semmie might feel threatened by Ryan and/or why he would attack someone so obviously innocent and who would not have been a threat to Semmie in any way. These are just a few of the things I heard Semmie say. Note that I’m paraphrasing. I didn’t write down actual quotes as I intended to do so later. I didn’t consider that YouTube would remove his account. Semmie’s world view was loaded with symbolism.

1. People wearing black and yellow are racists and want to harm/kill him. He would consistently point people out wearing these colors. Unfortunately, based on mom’s description of Ryan’s clothing that night, he was wearing a black hoodie with yellow Barcelona writing on it, black shorts, and black Nike shoes.

2. People on bikes, skateboards, and scooters were working for “bad” law enforcement and were a part of the group spying on him and gang stalking him. One bike got too close to him and Semmie reacted and said something to the guy about it. He became confrontational and the bike rider ignored him and kept going.

3. Semmie said that “bad” law enforcement used children to help them stalk and mentally torture him. He said that was indicative of how evil these people are.

A person who is mentally healthy would quickly see that Semmie lived in a perpetual state of paranoia. These comments were taken from his videos cumulatively and not one specific video. But these three things may have possibly been why Semmie saw sweet Ryan as a threat. It makes my heart break to think what Ryan must have faced when he encountered Semmie. Semmie exists in a heightened state of fear that most everyone around him wanted to harm or kill him. Just some food for thought for those studying this case and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

I remember those comments too, especially the specific bad colors and bicyclists. It's just devastating. I wonder how the guy managed to catch Ryan on his bike. Did Ryan perhaps fall off the bike first? I feel like Ryan would be able to out-bicycle someone who was on foot.
 

007mom

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I remember those comments too, especially the specific bad colors and bicyclists. It's just devastating. I wonder how the guy managed to catch Ryan on his bike. Did Ryan perhaps fall off the bike first? I feel like Ryan would be able to out-bicycle someone who was on foot.
If they met each other in passing on the narrow path shown in crime scene photos, I wonder if Ryan stopped his bike to let Semmie pass by and a verbal encounter took place. That’s how I visualized it must have occurred, but I obviously don’t really know how things played out that night. It’s devastating. Based on all that has been said about what a wonderful young man Ryan was, I could easily see him stopping his bike as a courtesy to let Semmie pass by. In his paranoid mind, Semmie may have felt threatened by the gesture. It’s just so sad to imagine how terrified Ryan must have been.
 

evilwise

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Absolutely not true. I'd be curious to see some of these rantings because the vast majority of murderers are NOT mentally ill. They're just not. That's based on evidence. The way we did things 50 years ago was WRONG by all standards of humanity and human rights. What happened to this young boy was awful, but to suggest this is common is just plain factually inaccurate and unfair to the mentally ill community.
Not to offend the "mentally ill community" and with all due respect, in my humble opinion only a huge part of the problem is that "ranting delusional homeless people" and "people prone to random violent rage" are not considered mentally ill while "people who can't pay attention in school" and "people who cry about things they read on the internet" are. Not to belittle anyone in the bottom two categories but this is exactly the mechanism by which the resources that exist to treat mental illness are squandered with relatively little benefit to society as a whole
 

kinder

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Since I have not seen it mentioned yet, I wanted to share some quick observations that I picked up from Semmie’s comments in his YouTube videos. Note that these comments were random and did not come from one specific video. Instead, as I listened to the videos, I listened specifically for things that I hoped would give me some kind of insight as to why Semmie might feel threatened by Ryan and/or why he would attack someone so obviously innocent and who would not have been a threat to Semmie in any way. These are just a few of the things I heard Semmie say. Note that I’m paraphrasing. I didn’t write down actual quotes as I intended to do so later. I didn’t consider that YouTube would remove his account. Semmie’s world view was loaded with symbolism.

1. People wearing black and yellow are racists and want to harm/kill him. He would consistently point people out wearing these colors. Unfortunately, based on mom’s description of Ryan’s clothing that night, he was wearing a black hoodie with yellow Barcelona writing on it, black shorts, and black Nike shoes.

2. People on bikes, skateboards, and scooters were working for “bad” law enforcement and were a part of the group spying on him and gang stalking him. One bike got too close to him and Semmie reacted and said something to the guy about it. He became confrontational and the bike rider ignored him and kept going.

3. Semmie said that “bad” law enforcement used children to help them stalk and mentally torture him. He said that was indicative of how evil these people are.

A person who is mentally healthy would quickly see that Semmie lived in a perpetual state of paranoia. These comments were taken from his videos cumulatively and not one specific video. But these three things may have possibly been why Semmie saw sweet Ryan as a threat. It makes my heart break to think what Ryan must have faced when he encountered Semmie. Semmie exists in a heightened state of fear that most everyone around him wanted to harm or kill him. Just some food for thought for those studying this case and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.
To add to this, and in hopes someone with expertise can evaluate and diagnose:
  1. Colors and numbers seemed a code for something else - seemingly conspiracy related.
  2. Frequently asserted that he was not homosexual; that his privates had been touched by cops in the past, and male passers-by had exposed themselves.
  3. People or things were trying to give him AIDS (e.g. bus drove my with image of Magic Johnson on it was trying to give him AIDS).
  4. Frequently said black cops were paid off by the white cops. Cops were racist.
  5. Anyone and everyone he encountered on video was a spy or following him or out to get him.
  6. Said he was implanted with microchips.
  7. IMO, sound of his voice reminded me of Grover from Sesame Street.
  8. IMO, he had been educated at some point in his life because his spelling of words seemed mostly accurate in video titles/descriptions and he spoke in mainstream American vernacular.
  9. IMO, he was intelligent to be able to survive and navigate the streets and public transit, to be able to take videos and upload to Youtube.
  10. IMO, he was receiving some sort of financial assistance to purchase food, use public transit and have a cell phone with service.
 
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SuziQ

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Maybe don't equate being poor or mentally ill with criminal behavior.

We have thousands of people locked up on non-violent drug offenses (addiction) while violent mentally ill people are put out into the street to randomly stab children to death.

Omg, I agree with you. Violent criminals should be locked up, period. Mental illness should not factor into this at all.

Moo.
 

SuziQ

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I thought about this post after reading this article where a 24-year-old man comes around a corner quickly and drop-kicks an 84-year-old gentleman in the face that was sitting on his walker chair, waiting at a bus stop. No words were even exchanged-- just a cruel, evil act by a person that's allegedly mentally ill. This kick -- knocking the 84-year-old off his walker to the ground could have easily killed him. The elderly man will live in fear for his remaining days, and will never be the same. It was awful to watch the video replay. :eek:

Asian man, 84, who was kicked in the face while waiting for the bus faces his attacker in court | Daily Mail Online

Mental illness should not be a get out of jail free card. I feel bad for the poor victim in his case. The injuries he suffered could have ended his life. And now the perpetrator is free to hurt or kill someone else.

Moo.
 

BeginnerSleuther

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Not to offend the "mentally ill community" and with all due respect, in my humble opinion only a huge part of the problem is that "ranting delusional homeless people" and "people prone to random violent rage" are not considered mentally ill while "people who can't pay attention in school" and "people who cry about things they read on the internet" are. Not to belittle anyone in the bottom two categories but this is exactly the mechanism by which the resources that exist to treat mental illness are squandered with relatively little benefit to society as a whole

I'm sorry, what? Relatively little benefit to society as a whole? On what basis is this comment made? Are you not aware of all the potentially dangerous mentally ill patients hospitalized in the US?

Your comment is offensive to the mentally ill community. And I'm not sure what you're talking about, but there is no diagnosis for "people who cry about things they read on the internet." That isn't a thing.
 

SuziQ

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Actually, those struggling with addiction are far more likely to be violent than someone with schizophrenia. If you take with someone with schizophrenia who also has a substance abuse problem, then the risk increases exponentially.

We do commit people against their will if they're a danger to self or to society. I would need to know more about this case, but I am wondering why that wasn't done since this individual was clearly a danger to others.

I would like to see diversion programs end for both groups if they are violent offenders. They can get treatment behind bars.

Does anyone care about victims anymore?

Moo.
 

BeginnerSleuther

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To add to this, and in hopes someone with expertise can evaluate and diagnose:
  1. Colors and numbers seemed a code for something else - seemingly conspiracy related.
  2. Frequently asserted that he was not homosexual; that his privates had been touched by cops in the past, and male passers-by had exposed themselves.
  3. People or things were trying to give him AIDS (e.g. bus drove my with image of Magic Johnson on it was trying to give him AIDS).
  4. Frequently said black cops were paid off by the white cops. Cops were racist.
  5. Anyone and everyone he encountered on video was a spy or following him or out to get him.
  6. Said he was implanted with microchips.
  7. IMO, sound of his voice reminded me of Grover from Sesame Street.
  8. IMO, he had been educated at some point in his life because his spelling of words seemed mostly accurate in video titles/descriptions and he spoke in mainstream American vernacular.
  9. IMO, he was intelligent to be able to survive and navigate the streets and public transit, to be able to take videos and upload to Youtube.
  10. IMO, he was receiving some sort of financial assistance to purchase food, use public transit and have a cell phone with service.

If anyone gives him a diagnosis based on these things without evaluation, run from that person. No professional mental health expert should diagnose someone they haven't met. As for the things you list, that does not confirm mental illness (which is why no one should diagnose without evaluating for themselves). As I said previously, a number of medical conditions can and do present with the same exact symptoms noted above. In order to diagnose mental illness, all other causes must be ruled out and given that we know next to nothing about his medical status, we can't do that. Drug intoxication with certain drugs, such as cocaine, PCP, and LSD, can also lead to delusions, paranoia, and hallucinations. These drugs can also make someone very violent and combative. Likewise, withdrawal from certain drugs, including alcohol, can also lead to delusions, paranoia, and hallucinations. Longterm drug use can also damage the brain to the point that you experience psychotic symptoms as can dementia, AIDS, syphilis, some autoimmune conditions, some legit medications, and a number of other diseases.

What really argues against mental illness in his case is the fact that he is able to record videos, edit (?), and post to YT. YT isn't as easy a platform as say Twitter or Instagram. Most people who have true schizophrenia or psychotic illness don't have the organizational skills and executive function to be able to do that.
 

BeginnerSleuther

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Mental illness should not be a get out of jail free card. I feel bad for the poor victim in his case. The injuries he suffered could have ended his life. And now the perpetrator is free to hurt or kill someone else.

Moo.

No, it shouldn't. And in most cases, it isn't a get out of jail free card. Not by any means. Even people who claim NGRI are often committed for decades (years longer than a prison sentence in many cases)
 

007mom

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To add to this, and in hopes someone with expertise can evaluate and diagnose:
  1. Colors and numbers seemed a code for something else - seemingly conspiracy related.
  2. Frequently asserted that he was not homosexual; that his privates had been touched by cops in the past, and male passers-by had exposed themselves.
  3. People or things were trying to give him AIDS (e.g. bus drove my with image of Magic Johnson on it was trying to give him AIDS).
  4. Frequently said black cops were paid off by the white cops. Cops were racist.
  5. Anyone and everyone he encountered on video was a spy or following him or out to get him.
  6. Said he was implanted with microchips.
  7. IMO, sound of his voice reminded me of Grover from Sesame Street.
  8. IMO, he had been educated at some point in his life because his spelling of words seemed mostly accurate in video titles/descriptions and he spoke in mainstream American vernacular.
  9. IMO, he was intelligent to be able to survive and navigate the streets and public transit, to be able to take videos and upload to Youtube.
  10. IMO, he was receiving some sort of financial assistance to purchase food, use public transit and have a cell phone with service.
And the thing about FedEx trucks/vans. I can’t remember the specifics because there were so many things. He saw danger in just about everything. Three people walking together were referred to as triangles. So much symbolism and he saw it everywhere, even people in wheelchairs.
 

BeginnerSleuther

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I would like to see diversion programs end for both groups if they are violent offenders. They can get treatment behind bars.

Does anyone care about victims anymore?

Moo.

The vast majority of crime is not connected to psychotic illness. Something like 95% of violent crime is committed by people who are not suffering from severe mental illness.
 

007mom

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If anyone gives him a diagnosis based on these things without evaluation, run from that person. No professional mental health expert should diagnose someone they haven't met. As for the things you list, that does not confirm mental illness (which is why no one should diagnose without evaluating for themselves). As I said previously, a number of medical conditions can and do present with the same exact symptoms noted above. In order to diagnose mental illness, all other causes must be ruled out and given that we know next to nothing about his medical status, we can't do that. Drug intoxication with certain drugs, such as cocaine, PCP, and LSD, can also lead to delusions, paranoia, and hallucinations. These drugs can also make someone very violent and combative. Likewise, withdrawal from certain drugs, including alcohol, can also lead to delusions, paranoia, and hallucinations. Longterm drug use can also damage the brain to the point that you experience psychotic symptoms as can dementia, AIDS, syphilis, some autoimmune conditions, some legit medications, and a number of other diseases.

What really argues against mental illness in his case is the fact that he is able to record videos, edit (?), and post to YT. YT isn't as easy a platform as say Twitter or Instagram. Most people who have true schizophrenia or psychotic illness don't have the organizational skills and executive function to be able to do that.
I wasn’t diagnosing anyone as I’m not qualified to do so. I was merely pointing out what Semmie Williams said in his YouTube videos. That in no way whatsoever constitutes “diagnosing.” No one should make assumptions or criticize the comments of another in these threads. That’s not what this forum is about. I personally think his comments in his YouTube videos - filmed before and after Ryan’s attack - are relevant. That certainly doesn’t mean I’m diagnosing him. I’ve yet to read anything that stated he was officially diagnosed as mentally ill. Based on his criminal history, I do think it’s safe to say that he is a threat to others. If our criminal justice system worked as it should, he would’ve still been incarcerated and incapable of posing a threat to innocent people in society. Our criminal justice system could use a serious overhaul and judges should more often enforce the law instead of offering leniency where it isn’t warranted. Judges need to be held accountable for their decisions made on the bench, especially when they allow people with an extensive criminal history that includes violence, to walk free.
 

BeginnerSleuther

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I wasn’t diagnosing anyone as I’m not qualified to do so. I was merely pointing out what Semmie Williams said in his YouTube videos. That in no way whatsoever constitutes “diagnosing.”

I didn't say you were diagnosing. I was responding to the other poster who said "To add to this, and in hopes someone with expertise can evaluate and diagnose:"

I also wasn't criticizing anything you were saying. I was merely pointing out that we cannot diagnose this individual without an evaluation. I am in agreement that violent criminals should be in prison, mental illness or not. I just don't like seeing individuals scapegoated as being mentally ill when, in fact, they either may not be or their mental illness didn't make them homicidal. It stigmatizes mental illness.
 
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