FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

BeginnerSleuther

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I'm curious. Those of you saying she should have stopped, are you familiar with these types of incidents?

Video: Suspects sought in brutal road rage assault on I-5 in Hazel Dell

Woman brutally attacked during road rage incident in Jenkintown, Pa.

The Bristol Press - Bristol man convicted in connection with assault following road-rage incident

Per witnesses, Derr became aggressive before Morales struck him (whether intentionally or not) so I can't for the life of me understand the argument that she should have stopped. Who would have stopped, especially when three men are now ganging up on you? I would rather just get the hell out of there and take the consequences by the law rather than pull over so some man who's already been aggressive toward me can take me down. Then they follow her home for absolutely no reason (they already gave her plates to 911). She had every right to get her gun. IMO, had the situation been reversed and Derr was killed, Morales would have had every right and reason to claim self defense and she likely would have gotten off because HE's the one who chased her home. Whatever she did on that roadway does not excuse that.

The more I research this case, the more I think this was murder.
 

Cryptic

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I think the law has the separate the incidents. Here is what I come up with as I understand it.

Both of them, if they were alive, would be in trouble I think because this was a series of events that spiraled out of control with shared culpability. With her dead, after pointing a gun at him, I don't know if that changes the calculus at all.

I agree. The events might be legally broken down into:

Scene I Traffic dispute.
Scene II Shooting incident at home.

The big legal questions could be:

- Question 1: Did Derr participate in a mutual "one upping" contest in Scene I?
- Question 2: If Derr did enter a "one upping" contest, does that detract from, but not totally eliminate, his ability to claim self defense in Scene II?

I dont know the full answer to question 1 (witnesses seem to give different versions of who did what to whom first and why). But.... I suspect that there will be enough evidence for a "yes" answer.

If question one is a yes, the answer to question 2 also seems to be "yes" based on pretty similar cases that I found. But... those were not in Florida.
 
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CocoChanel

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ADMIN NOTE:
People may be sleuthed if and when they have been named as the suspect of a crime, or charged as the perpetrator of a crime.

In this case, LE has not made a determination of that public at this time.
Until there is official word that someone has been named as the suspect or perpetrator of a crime, that person may not be sleuthed.

UPDATE: It has been determined that Sara Morales may be sleuthed as the deceased person.
 
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Spyralflare

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This case really bothers me. I just find it hard to believe a pregnant woman deliberately hit a biker. And once 3 bikers were enraged at her, I can see why she would flee.
however, why she drove home instead of driving to the nearest police station is another valid question, IMO.
 

katydid23

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This case really bothers me. I just find it hard to believe a pregnant woman deliberately hit a biker. And once 3 bikers were enraged at her, I can see why she would flee.
however, why she drove home instead of driving to the nearest police station is another valid question, IMO.
That^^^ is a valid question. I wonder if she had her cell phone in the car with her? I think I'd have called 911 from the car and said I was being chased in a road rage incident.
 

everybodhi

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That^^^ is a valid question. I wonder if she had her cell phone in the car with her? I think I'd have called 911 from the car and said I was being chased in a road rage incident.
She did, the 911 calls are online. She talked to them until she got home, told the dispatcher they were at her house followed by the gunshots which can be heard on her 911 call.
 

katydid23

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She did, the 911 calls are online. She talked to them until she got home, told the dispatcher they were at her house followed by the gunshots which can be heard on her 911 call.
But I wonder why she went to her home. I wouldn't want them to know where I lived. I wish she had driven to police station.
 

cujenn81

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Y’ALL! I’m responding to myself to totally say that I posted this in my sleep… lol.

I have a really bad habit of doing such things because I fall asleep reading on my Kindle every night. I also read books via the Kindle app on my phone sometimes, so I turned off the sleep settings to prevent my screen from going dark every time I step away for a minute or two. Unfortunately, my finger likes to make decisions without my consent if I fall asleep without locking my screen. The worst example of this was the morning my finger decided to land on the red emergency button and I woke to a 9-1-1 dispatcher loudly demanding I tell them my emergency. Talk about embarrassing! I was super worried the lady wasn’t going to buy my “Sorry, I was asleep” story.

ETA: Andddd I don’t even see the quoted post attached to this response. Anyway, it’s up a few posts in the thread.
 

Razz

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Y’ALL! I’m responding to myself to totally say that I posted this in my sleep… lol.

I have a really bad habit of doing such things because I fall asleep reading on my Kindle every night. I also read books via the Kindle app on my phone sometimes, so I turned off the sleep settings to prevent my screen from going dark every time I step away for a minute or two. Unfortunately, my finger likes to make decisions without my consent if I fall asleep without locking my screen. The worst example of this was the morning my finger decided to land on the red emergency button and I woke to a 9-1-1 dispatcher loudly demanding I tell them my emergency. Talk about embarrassing! I was super worried the lady wasn’t going to buy my “Sorry, I was asleep” story.

ETA: Andddd I don’t even see the quoted post attached to this response. Anyway, it’s up a few posts in the thread.
Good to know.
 

everybodhi

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Y’ALL! I’m responding to myself to totally say that I posted this in my sleep… lol.

I have a really bad habit of doing such things because I fall asleep reading on my Kindle every night. I also read books via the Kindle app on my phone sometimes, so I turned off the sleep settings to prevent my screen from going dark every time I step away for a minute or two. Unfortunately, my finger likes to make decisions without my consent if I fall asleep without locking my screen. The worst example of this was the morning my finger decided to land on the red emergency button and I woke to a 9-1-1 dispatcher loudly demanding I tell them my emergency. Talk about embarrassing! I was super worried the lady wasn’t going to buy my “Sorry, I was asleep” story.

ETA: Andddd I don’t even see the quoted post attached to this response. Anyway, it’s up a few posts in the thread.
o
lol
 

GatorFL

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So what happens now? Is there still an investigation going to determine if there will be charges, are her family pressuring?
Gotta be an investigation going on. Usually in cases like this the sheriff will make a statement on why they are or are not charging the person who fired their weapon. I don't know if this is part of the Stand Your Ground law here or if that is just what I've noticed in other cases.
 

Ozoner

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Nothing about this seems right. How do 3 bikers chase a pregnant woman to her HOME and then when she gets her weapon from INSIDE her HOME to protect herself, one shoots her and claims self defense?!?!

In Snoods’ link above, it states that she has an 11 year old daughter. Was the daughter with her at the time? If my kids were with me, or even in the house, and I felt threatened by some bikers who had followed me home, I would have gotten my weapon too.

i may not have gone back outside with it… idk. Fear can make people react differently that they think they would.

<modsnip: referenced post removed>

moo
She should have fired her weapon immediately.

I don't own a gun, but a CPL holder once told me, "Don't pull a gun unless you're going to use it," and I consider that very good advice.
 

Cryptic

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Gotta be an investigation going on.

Usually in cases like this the sheriff will make a statement on why they are or are not charging the person who fired their weapon.

Though this article is dated, it mentions that the local Sheriff is working with State Attorney's Office.

Though these guys and girls are prosecutorial legal heavy weights, their investigations can take a long time. Another good thing is that as they are state level, they are not intimidated by local sentiments regarding a case.

For example, this off duty police officer was not indicted by the local grand jury (swore that he absolutely had no other choice but to near empty a magazine after he was violently shoved to the ground by an autistic adult.

The local District Attorney seemed hesitant to purse the matter after the grand jury rejected the charges. State level prosecutors then filed charges- about eight months later.

Ex-LAPD officer charged with voluntary manslaughter in Corona Costco shooting – Press Enterprise
 

Razz

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Razz

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Sorry, I copied where her mother said she (SM) had her boyfriends gun and it was loaded but she couldn't pull back the chamber so the gun was essentially useless.

She was on the phone with police when she went outside and while speaking to 911, she was shot 5 times.
 
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