Objectively very true.He was reportedly yelling at her and pointing at her---but she was in her vehicle and he was on a cycle. He was not in a position to harm her in any way.
She was a woman alone. Easy to pick on, and easy to bully. Could sexism be an issue here?Objectively very true.
Applying the same level of objectivity to the three men, they had her license plate, and also had identified where she lived and.... had called the police.
Yet, Derr still had a further "conversation" with her as she entered her home. Objectively, there was no reason for Derr talk to her again about anything.
The fact that he spoke to her again as she was entering her home also implies that they were following her closely as in chasing.
Going subjective.... I wonder if Derr would have had the same tone of voice and eagerness to "converse" if Sara Morales had been say: Sam Morales, probably armed and wearing colors of the famous / infamous Outlaws 2% motorcycle group?
My guess is: "No". Likewise, I bet the other two riders would have quickly concluded that chasing "Sam Morales" anywhere was probably not a good idea.
As soon as the license plate number was relayed to law enforcement, the chase is composed of one victim and three vigilantes.
Three vigilantes who could have waited on the sidewalk/curb/edge of public property until LE arrived.
OR empty an entire magazine into a human, if you are a vigilante.
jmho ymmv lrr
If she really did swerve into his motorcycle, in an attempt to knock him off his bike, then she was the one who escalated things. I can understand why he would want to follow her and have police come and investigate her actions.
She was inside her home, with 2 weapons, and the police on the phone with her. There was no need for her to go outside and confront them. They were on the sidewalk, not trying to enter her home. JMO
She was not a law enforcement officer and that is not how police stop someone from speeding. Your narrative makes it sound like she committed reckless driving, which is the willful disregard for the safety of another. That's a 2nd degree misdemeanor in FL: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online SunshineIf the motorcycle was exceeding the legal speed, then the driver of that motorcycle is the criminal, not someone who made a legal lane change (assuming she used her blinker).
I don't know how fast he was going, but I often see motorcycle riders zipping by on "crotch rockets" doing what must be in excess of 100 m.p.h.
If he was driving that fast, then maybe she changed lanes in front of him in order to teach him a lesson or force him to slow down.
How do you get away from someone by swerving into them with your car?
Isn't that the same thing as attempted murder
if you try to run into a motorcyclist with your car? That is a very aggressive move on her part.
He was reportedly yelling at her and pointing at her---but she was in her vehicle and he was on a cycle.
He was not in a position to harm her in any way.
Running her vehicle into him, almost knocking him over, is a very irresponsible act and I see no excuse for that, imo.
So he was speeding? Not that unusual for a motorcycle to go speeding past a vehicle. Poor driving skills on her part, to pull in front of a cycle speeding past in the next lane though. They were both at fault, imo.
She had already retreated by going inside and locking her doors.
'Fighting' back against what? The 3 witnesses were outside on the public sidewalk, speaking to the police.
How is it 'victim blaming'? She was the one who introduced GUNS into the situation
She was the one that created the gun fight. There was no reason to do so. She deserves the criticism. It is not 'victim blaming' to criticise someone for greatly escalating a situation that was under control into a gun fight.
I disagree that he shouldn't have followed her when she left the scene. He and two witnesses seemed to think she tried to knock him off his bike with a moving vehicle. I can't blame him for being upset.
She had no excuse for swerving her vehicle purposely into his motorcycle---she could have killed him or another motorist by doing so.
I don't understand why people are acting as though she was the total victim here. She escalated things so insanely, at least twice. None of this had to happen so tragically. JMO
She was not a law enforcement officer and that is not how police stop someone from speeding. Your narrative makes it sound like she committed reckless driving, which is the willful disregard for the safety of another. That's a 2nd degree misdemeanor in FL: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
Personally, I think that Derr proved that he was a threat when he was harassing her on his bike. I think that she would have been totally justified in running him off the road or running over him; it would have been self defense. We now know that he was armed; who's to say he wouldn't have shot her while they were both on the road?So picture this. Derr in the left lane, Morales in the right lane. Derr harassing her. She can't speed up very much because of the car in front of her. So she speeds up as much as she can and gets into the left lane to get away from him. Alternatively, say there's a middle lane and he's in the middle lane. She slows down and swerves into his lane in order to get to the left lane and pass him. We really don't know what her intent was and giving her intent when she isn't here to defend herself is victim blaming.
Not even a little bit. Look, if you're harassing me on the road, I don't care if you're on a motorcycle, a sedan, or a limo. I'm getting away from you. If he was so concerned about his life, then (a) he shouldn't have been speeding and (b) he shouldn't be harassing people on the road.
Except you're assigning her intent without knowing what her intention was. If she was trying to kill him, it would have been fairly easy to do. Not only did she not kill him; she didn't even injure him (well, except his ego).
So what? If some driver is aggressive enough to be speeding and then pull up and start yelling at me while he's supposed to be driving, you bet I'm going to try to get out of there. For all she knew, he was armed and ready to shoot at a traffic light. My answer is going to be to get out of there however I can and get safely home.
Of course he was. Did you read the thread. I linked three separate stories of road rage incidents in which people got out of their vehicle to attack the person they felt slighted them. Just because he was on a motorcycle doesn't mean he couldn't have done the same.
I mean, if we're going to victim blame here, then the excuse is that Derr shouldn't have been speeding and shouldn't have been harassing others on the road.
No way. If he is speeding and she is changing lanes, her not seeing him is not poor driving on her part. It's actually reckless driving on HIS part. He was responsible for this, not her. She didn't do anything wrong until she made contact and that was AFTER he sped down the road. If I start going 70 in a 45 and another car changes lanes in front of me, guess who the cops will ticket. It won't be the other driver.
And yet, they didn't leave. So she comes outside. That isn't a crime, neither is waving her gun.
You know that in hindsight, but in that moment, she had no idea. What she knew is she's driving along and some jerk speeds down the roadway, then starts harassing her when she has the nerve to change lanes. Then, three of them start chasing her home. Her fear has been documented in real time, both to the cops and per her mom. She had no idea they were just going to wait there. She likely felt, as most people would, that her life was in danger at that point because quite literally no one does that unless they're looking for a fight. Derr already had her plate number. He didn't need to make a citizen's arrest. The fact that he chased her home tells me his intentions were not as pure as he'd like people to believe.
THEY chased her home. You just don't do that. It's not reasonable. It's not logical. It's the action of someone who has lost emotional control.
First, she had no idea anything was under control because Derr was very out of control. You and I can play Monday morning quarterback, but the facts were that you have a young pregnant woman being chased home by three men, one of whom has already been aggressive. How would she know this was under control? She came out, waved the gun in hopes of scaring them away. Instead he shot her 5 times.
But listen to what you just said. He was right to follow her home because he was upset? No. Just no. Vigilantism is not good, especially when he wasn't even injured. Some states outlaw you doing that actually. I don't know if FL is one of them. All he needed was her plates. He didn't need to chase her home.
Again, you don't know that it was on purpose. No one does.
Please read the thread. Every single person commenting on Morales's behalf has said that she shares the responsibility and if she were alive, both should have been charged. But she died, in part because of her actions but also because of his egregious behavior for which he should be criminally responsible.
This is complicated case. There are apparently multiple crimes committed by Morales and perhaps by Derr.But it's not a capital offense and yet, she's dead because the other person in this scenario who isn't a law enforcement officer took the law in his own hands.
100% a crime in the state of FL, without a doubt. I shared the link for the statute in my other post.And yet, they didn't leave. So she comes outside. That isn't a crime, neither is waving her gun.
I thought so even before I read that after he killed her he twice complained to the police about her “yapping” at him. I doubt he would have said the same casually sexist remarks about “Sam” Morales. (It’s in the lengthy article that has kindly been posted several times in the last few pages.)She was a woman alone. Easy to pick on, and easy to bully. Could sexism be an issue here?
100% a crime in the state of FL, without a doubt. I shared the link for the statute in my other post.
This is complicated case. There are apparently multiple crimes committed by Morales and perhaps by Derr.
I think the speeding is irrelevant because it was not clocked by laser or radar and so any report of speeding is anecdotal.
I can't be sure but I don't think police in FL cite speeders based upon reports. They witness it and prove it through one of the devices I mentioned or by pacing the speeder. So, speeding is not going to be a part of this case.
She swerved into his lane, 100% a reckless driving charge.
Additionally she contacted his motorcycle and did not pull over. That is leaving the scene of an accident.
She went home and broke the law (so did her mother) by brandishing a gun.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
I am not sure if Derr broke the law by shooting her. I think that he had a reasonable fear for his life. She tried to run him off the road and contacted his bike. Adding in her brandishing a weapon and it is reasonable that he feared for his life and stood his ground. That is not taking the law into his own hands.
You keep posting your thoughts without considering the laws, all of which I have posted for you both in this post and earlier in the thread. This is what the authorities have to work with, and nothing more.
100% a crime in the state of FL, without a doubt. I shared the link for the statute in my other post.
What was he yelling at her?snipped & bbm
He was reportedly yelling at her and pointing at her---but she was in her vehicle and he was on a cycle. He was not in a position to harm her in any way.
She was the one who introduced GUNS into the situation. She was the one that created the gun fight. There was no reason to do so. She deserves the criticism. It is not 'victim blaming' to criticise someone for greatly escalating a situation that was under control into a gun fight.
If you’re in an accident with no injuries and minor damage and the other party is threatening you so you keep driving while calling 911, I don’t think that is “hit and run”.I just read the FL statute posted above about hit and run. It doesn't mention drivers involved in an accident in which there were no injuries.
I just got off work and it's late so maybe I'm missing it if someone wants to double check me.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
It wasn't self defense because she didn't use it. She brandished it, Derr shot her as a result. 100% a crime on her part.Brandishing is only a crime in Florida if it is “not necessary in self defense,” per the statute. This situation is still ambiguous, with some facts yet to be determined. Depending on exactly what happened at the Morales home, a case could be made in favor of Morales for self defense.
Derr was on Morales’ property, and Florida “stand your ground” doctrine does not favor Derr, because he was not in a place where he had a right to be.
You didn't look at the right statute. Proper one would be leaving the scene of an accident: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online SunshineI just read the FL statute posted above about hit and run. It doesn't mention drivers involved in an accident in which there were no injuries.
I just got off work and it's late so maybe I'm missing it if someone wants to double check me.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine