FL FL - Sumter Co, 'Little Miss Panasoffkee', WhtFem 17-24, 470UFFL, Feb'71

The state, the month, the clothing, coloring, and age are pretty close to Debora's- who went missing in Feb a year later. Could the same person have killed them both?

"Clothing: A yellow blouse, black pants with vertical rose stripes and a tan poncho."

FL - FL - Debora Lowe, 13, Pompano Beach, 29 Feb 1972
 
Sorry, I misread the Cook thinking Cook County (I have family there). This actually seems like a good match.

Oh, I see. Yes, I misread that the first time, too, then went back and reread and figured it out.

If you try to see her face without those crazy glasses (not criticizing, I used to wear them too! :D ) and compare her to CarlK's recon, there's quite a similarity.

I would have thought it was more likely that her husband would have taken her somewhere along his route to where he was working, but maybe he thought going the opposite direction would make it less likely he'd be associated with her even if she was found.

Map showing Lake Panasoffkee where she was found, Highland City where Mrs. Cook disappeared from, and West Palm Beach where the husband is said to have worked: Google Maps
 
I don’t think it’s her. Mary is 4’11 and 145-150 lbs. LMLP was 5’0-5’5 (I’d average it to around 5’3) and 110-120 lbs.
 
Hm. On closer reading, she'd be ruled out on dentals.

Mary's Charley project file says "She had excellent teeth in 1970 and had never needed dental care." Mary Margaret Cook – The Charley Project

Our Jane Doe had "Extensive dental work, including several silver fillings and a porcelain crown on one of her top middle teeth." 470UFFL
 
I wish there was a photo of the ring available, it could help us see if it might've been a wedding/engagement ring or not (possibly).
 
This is a wild theory, but here's my 50 cents:

Could LMLP be prison escapee Sylvia Torgow?

She really resembles the 2012 reconstruction from USF. According to NamUs, she escaped in April of 1970 and is originally from Collister, FL. Collister is only an hour away from Lake Panaosffkee. While it does say she had blonde hair, maybe she dyed it when she made it to Florida to hide her ID, perhaps explaining the high carbon in her hair? She matches the height and weight ranges for Miss Panasoffkee. What do you guys think?
Missing Person Case (namus.gov)

ProfileImage.aspx
500
 
There have been quite a few matches made in which the age was as much as 20 years off, and also significant discrepancies in other identifying data.

The problem that you run into (besides typos) is that identifying data tends to get repeated over and over, sometimes "corrected" and sometimes never. On the internet, any typo or miss statement lasts forever.

And you have to ask where did the information come from? With an unidentified body, medical examiners are usually pretty careful to measure and weigh them, but if there has been a lot of deterioration of the body - or if it is just skeletal remains or partial remains - then what you get is a wide ranging guess.

With regard to missing persons, again the weight, height, etc. is often just a guess made by someone who is reporting them missing and it could be way off - either accidentally or intentionally.

My point is that you have to consider listed factors as estimates rather than absolutes.

When comparing "Little Miss Panasoffkee" with Mary Margaret Cook, I considered the following similarities:
- The age is within a year
- Height is within about 3 inches
- Weight within about 20 pounds
- Hair color same
- White and American Indian race
- Two previous children born
- Time frame between Mary's disappearance and LMP's discovery is 3 months.
- Distance between disappearance and body discovery about 60 miles.
- Similar facial features
- The mention in both cases regarding green colored clothing.
- A "birthmark" on Mary's right ankle could be a scar from an operation as noted on LMP. (Often a form asks for "identifying marks, scars, etc." in one small block)

The dental information on Little Miss Panasoffkee would tend to rule out Mary Margaret Cook - assuming that she truly did have "excellent" teeth which required no dental work. However, consider the reliability of that information. Excellent teeth could mean that dental work had taken place. Or, it is possible that the person supplying the information about "excellent" teeth might have lied about it.

I have studied and written on both of these cases over the years in their separate threads. I do not know if they are connected, and don't know if LE has ever considered a possible match.

If DNA is available on LMP it could be compared with DNA from Mary's sons.
 
Last edited:
This article was in the 50th anniversary press release regarding LMLP. It says a woman believes this girl was a runaway named "Carol" who was present in the Clearwater Beach area in the summer and fall of 1970. She was last seen in the fall of '70 leaving with three unidentified men from Tampa. The woman came to the conclusion after seeing the bust of LMLP done by Betty Pat Gatliff. Personally, I think this is a good match.
226
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4515.jpg
    IMG_4515.jpg
    177.5 KB · Views: 35
I read the other page of the article and it said Carol had an ankle injury previously. She was also noted to be 18-20. I don't know about you guys, but I think LMLP and "Carol" are the same person.
 

Attachments

  • D063FDFD-2EB8-4EC4-AAFA-F0E9E09029FB.jpeg
    D063FDFD-2EB8-4EC4-AAFA-F0E9E09029FB.jpeg
    133.5 KB · Views: 18
Last edited:
Usually the initial assumptions on a case turn out to be the most accurate, so I think there may be something to that.
However, "Carol" is described as a "street person".
LMLP wore clean, matching, highly fashionable clothing that would be way impractical for someone homeless (the cape! It does not keep you warm, it doesnt keep you dry and you cant sleep on it, either). And she wore expensive jewelry and a nice watch and had extensive dental care and was of great overall health.
That does not match someone living on the streets, not even someone who was homless for a shorter period of time only, as even a short period of no consistent dental hygiene takes a huge toll.

Unless "Carol" lived with her parents in a stable environment and just occasionally met with "bad guys", I dont think it is her. Besides, the memory is really anecdotical and the tipster was not sure herself LMLP was "Carol". She did not even know much about "Carol".
 
Usually the initial assumptions on a case turn out to be the most accurate, so I think there may be something to that.
However, "Carol" is described as a "street person". LMLP wore clean, matching, highly fashionable clothing that would be way impractical for someone homeless (the cape! It does not keep you warm, it doesnt keep you dry and you cant sleep on it, either). And she wore expensive jewelry and a nice watch and had extensive dental care and was of great overall health.
That does not match someone living on the streets, not even someone who was homless for a shorter period of time only, as even a short period of no consistent dental hygiene takes a huge toll.

I totally agree. I almost posted the same thing.
 
Usually the initial assumptions on a case turn out to be the most accurate, so I think there may be something to that.
However, "Carol" is described as a "street person". LMLP wore clean, matching, highly fashionable clothing that would be way impractical for someone homeless (the cape! It does not keep you warm, it doesnt keep you dry and you cant sleep on it, either). And she wore expensive jewelry and a nice watch and had extensive dental care and was of great overall health.
That does not match someone living on the streets, not even someone who was homless for a shorter period of time only, as even a short period of no consistent dental hygiene takes a huge toll.
Maybe Carol was living in better conditions at the time of her death. Remember, the witness saw Carol until the fall, when she left with 3 men in the fall of '70.
 
The tipster said Carol was a frequent runaway and that her parents hired a private investigator who tracked her down and brought her home the last time she ran away.
If it was only a week or so she was missing before she ended up in the lake, that may be a possibility.
If she was on the street longer, no way she could have been able to keep all her clothing and jewels together and neat. Even if she stays overnight at various "friends" and does not sleep on the street, still her watch and jewelry would be stolen or she may pawn them to buy food, drugs or alcohol for herself or her "friends".
 
The tipster said Carol was a frequent runaway and that her parents hired a private investigator who tracked her down and brought her home the last time she ran away.
If it was only a week or so she was missing before she ended up in the lake, that may be a possibility.
If she was on the street longer, no way she could have been able to keep all her clothing and jewels together and neat. Even if she stays overnight at various "friends" and does not sleep on the street, still her watch and jewelry would be stolen or she may pawn them to buy food, drugs or alcohol for herself or her "friends".
True. This scenario only works if she ran away right before she died.
 
There have been quite a few matches made in which the age was as much as 20 years off, and also significant discrepancies in other identifying data.

The problem that you run into (besides typos) is that identifying data tends to get repeated over and over, sometimes "corrected" and sometimes never. On the internet, any typo or miss statement lasts forever.

And you have to ask where did the information come from? With an unidentified body, medical examiners are usually pretty careful to measure and weigh them, but if there has been a lot of deterioration of the body - or if it is just skeletal remains or partial remains - then what you get is a wide ranging guess.

With regard to missing persons, again the weight, height, etc. is often just a guess made by someone who is reporting them missing and it could be way off - either accidentally or intentionally.

My point is that you have to consider listed factors as estimates rather than absolutes.

When comparing "Little Miss Panasoffkee" with Mary Margaret Cook, I considered the following similarities:
- The age is within a year
- Height is within about 3 inches
- Weight within about 20 pounds
- Hair color same
- White and American Indian race
- Two previous children born
- Time frame between Mary's disappearance and LMP's discovery is 3 months.
- Distance between disappearance and body discovery about 60 miles.
- Similar facial features
- The mention in both cases regarding green colored clothing.
- A "birthmark" on Mary's right ankle could be a scar from an operation as noted on LMP. (Often a form asks for "identifying marks, scars, etc." in one small block)

The dental information on Little Miss Panasoffkee would tend to rule out Mary Margaret Cook - assuming that she truly did have "excellent" teeth which required no dental work. However, consider the reliability of that information. Excellent teeth could mean that dental work had taken place. Or, it is possible that the person supplying the information about "excellent" teeth might have lied about it.

I have studied and written on both of these cases over the years in their separate threads. I do not know if they are connected, and don't know if LE has ever considered a possible match.

If DNA is available on LMP it could be compared with DNA from Mary's sons.

Good points as always, Richard, and you're right, we never know where there might be errors that would prevent a match. People lie, people are mistaken, forms are filled out wrong, information is transcribed wrong, etc. etc. etc.

One constant error I've seen is that for many missing people, the height and weight information is taken from the person's driver's license, and many people exaggerate their height and underestimate their weight.
 
Ive worked with archeological databases for quite some time and they work similarily to forensic/LE databases.
They are only as good as the data put in and also data tends to detoriate the more people modify the entries over the years and decades.
So I dont put so much emphasis on details such as height or weight because those really tend to be inaccurate. Sometimes even during initial autopsy, it is difficult to determine them exactly.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
199
Guests online
2,241
Total visitors
2,440

Forum statistics

Threads
589,955
Messages
17,928,238
Members
228,016
Latest member
ignoreme123
Back
Top