FL - Terri Schiavo Court Case

[Jules]

This is a case that people will never agree on. It is not a case that has a "gray" area - it's either black or white. We could keep this thread going for years and still have the same feelings. No one can type anything on this thread that will make me change my mind on how I view this case. I'm sure others feel exactly the same way.

For Terri's sake, I think it'd be nice to turn the attention to her and let her rest in peace. There is nothing either side can write in a book that will change the facts of what happened to her.

JMO...

 

[partyuv5]

we can't bring her back. What is done is done. let it go!

 

[KrazyKollector]

Well, since the only ones quoted were a Brother O'Donnell and a Janice Sanford (besides the usual ones), do you care to elaborate?

Thank you Marel for posting that link.

My own heart about stopped when I read the article as I know indirectly someone quoited and I just want to say that if that said person was so concerned about life she would have been a better mother and her own son would possibly now be with his wife and child rather then deceased.

Sorry to take it off topic but I just think that when reading in the media the source should be considered and I can tell you first hand that source is a flake cake.

 

[Hbgchick]

I am on the same page - with you. We already know the Schlinders side of the story. What could possibly be new? Schiavo was certainly villianized. IMO, he did the right thing, and he did it with class. I will probably read his book.

Me too.

My question to the folks who think Michael is so horrible...what if it were YOU. What if what happened to Terri happened to YOU. Would you want to stay in a vegitative state for years upon years, have your poor drooling face that used to be so beautiful plastered all over the news? I personally don't believe Michael had anything to do with her collapse...but even if he did? She STILL shouldn't have been kept alive artificially for so long. And if he did, why in the world would he stand by her so long? I just don't see the logic in the argument.

 

[Gabby]

Me too.

My question to the folks who think Michael is so horrible...what if it were YOU. What if what happened to Terri happened to YOU. Would you want to stay in a vegitative state for years upon years, have your poor drooling face that used to be so beautiful plastered all over the news? I personally don't believe Michael had anything to do with her collapse...but even if he did? She STILL shouldn't have been kept alive artificially for so long. And if he did, why in the world would he stand by her so long? I just don't see the logic in the argument.

Adultry, being hateful to the parents who WANTED to continue taking care of her.. If it were me, I would expect that there be NO OTHER WOMAN or children until I died, and I would expect my parent's to be treated respectfully....if he didn't want to continue my care, give it to someone who DID...

 

[Hbgchick]

Thanks for the response, but the answer unfortunately did not have any bearing on the question asked.

 

[Details]

Adultry, being hateful to the parents who WANTED to continue taking care of her.. If it were me, I would expect that there be NO OTHER WOMAN or children until I died, and I would expect my parent's to be treated respectfully....if he didn't want to continue my care, give it to someone who DID...

My God, I sure wouldn't. Put me in that condition, and I sure hope my husband finds others to comfort him, to support him, to love him. My parents should be treated respectfully - unless they disrespect MY wishes. Then they can be treated as well as possible based on their behavior (Michael went above and beyond on that level).

MY body is not a toy to be passed around to whoever wants it - it should be treated as I would want it to be were I able to say. My parent's tears and wishes and guilt would not make me want to remain in a PVS for their sake - it would just torture them, prevent them from ever returning to reality - my parents have no say in what is done with MY body unless I give it to them.

Her parents didn't go see her as often as Michael - before or after they had the disagreement and Michael turned from Terri's devoted wonderful husband to the anti-Christ in their eyes. They tried taking care of her - and gave up on it quickly as too much work.

 

[Gabby]

Thanks for the response, but the answer unfortunately did not have any bearing on the question asked.

You asked what we would want if it were us in that position... I answered what I didn't want and what I did.... so how could it have no bearing on the questions asked????????

 

[Details]

Seems to me that he moved on a long time ago. How many girlfriends before the long term girlfriend and TWO KIDS?...Tells me that this guy was doing quite a bit of MOVING. He harped about being married and how he loved Terri BUT in my book living with another woman and fathering two children with her is called ADULTERY...not love... no matter how you slice it. Terri wouldn't have known he got a divorce...if he had...gosh, I wonder what was holding him back. Could it have been those big bucks for Terri's rehab that he was spending trying to get her feeding tube removed? I'll bet quite a few of those bucks lined his pockets. JMO

He didn't move on - he visited Terri continuously - she was a major part of his life, and his girlfriends didn't get to be the only woman in his life - he always had another person to care for - the girlfriends even did Terri's laundry! Terri's parents moved on more than he did - they visited less often (although they made that up in time they spent selling their daughter's case to the media :slap: ).

I can't call it adultery - Terri was dead. Everything that made Terri who she was, everything that made her human was dead. No brain, no memory, no personality, no communication. The scans while she was breathing showed it, the autopsy after she was dead showed it. "Until Death do we part". Michael was very loyal to Terri - fighting for the best care, every possible longshot experimental chance for her to recover. When he finally accepted the truth of what the doctors said, he was still loyal to her - turning down millions of dollars to fight for her right to determine the way she would die rather than turning her over to her parents who say they would not care about Terri's wishes.

 

[Hbgchick]

You asked what we would want if it were us in that position... I answered what I didn't want and what I did.... so how could it have no bearing on the questions asked????????

No...what I asked was "Would you want to stay in a vegitative state for years upon years, have your poor drooling face that used to be so beautiful plastered all over the news?"

THAT was the question.

Technically, you could argue that there was also this question:

"And if he did [have something to do with her death], why in the world would he stand by her so long?"

Nothing about adultry, or another woman, or anyone's parents.

 

[Jules]

My God, I sure wouldn't. Put me in that condition, and I sure hope my husband finds others to comfort him, to support him, to love him. My parents should be treated respectfully - unless they disrespect MY wishes. Then they can be treated as well as possible based on their behavior (Michael went above and beyond on that level).

MY body is not a toy to be passed around to whoever wants it - it should be treated as I would want it to be were I able to say. My parent's tears and wishes and guilt would not make me want to remain in a PVS for their sake - it would just torture them, prevent them from ever returning to reality - my parents have no say in what is done with MY body unless I give it to them.

Her parents didn't go see her as often as Michael - before or after they had the disagreement and Michael turned from Terri's devoted wonderful husband to the anti-Christ in their eyes. They tried taking care of her - and gave up on it quickly as too much work.

Well said. If I had been in Terri's position, I would not want my husband sitting there night and day with me. I would want him to move on - to have a chance at love and life - have children - all the things I could no longer provide him. I would, however, expect him to honor my wishes and if that meant fighting my family for what I believed in, then so be it.

My hope is that the Schindler family will come to grips with reality. They need to move on - as Michael has.

 

[Hbgchick]

He didn't move on - he visited Terri continuously - she was a major part of his life, and his girlfriends didn't get to be the only woman in his life - he always had another person to care for - the girlfriends even did Terri's laundry! Terri's parents moved on more than he did - they visited less often (although they made that up in time they spent selling their daughter's case to the media :slap: ).

I can't call it adultery - Terri was dead. Everything that made Terri who she was, everything that made her human was dead. No brain, no memory, no personality, no communication. The scans while she was breathing showed it, the autopsy after she was dead showed it. "Until Death do we part". Michael was very loyal to Terri - fighting for the best care, every possible longshot experimental chance for her to recover. When he finally accepted the truth of what the doctors said, he was still loyal to her - turning down millions of dollars to fight for her right to determine the way she would die rather than turning her over to her parents who say they would not care about Terri's wishes.

Quite right. He also could have easily divorced her and let her parents take care of her the way THEY wanted to, hence freeing himself up to devote all of his time to his girlfriend and children. But he did not do that. He stuck it out till the end. What he did was stick by a woman he loved until her wishes were fulfilled with no regard to how he would "look" to anyone else. I would hope my husband would have Michael's kind of strength.

 

[Ntegrity]

My question to the folks who think Michael is so horrible...what if it were YOU. What if what happened to Terri happened to YOU. Would you want to stay in a vegitative state for years upon years, have your poor drooling face that used to be so beautiful plastered all over the news? I personally don't believe Michael had anything to do with her collapse...but even if he did? She STILL shouldn't have been kept alive artificially for so long. And if he did, why in the world would he stand by her so long? I just don't see the logic in the argument.

My main objection to Michael Schiavo making the decision to end Terri's life is that he had an obvious conflict of interest. It was to his benefit to end Terri's life since that would free him up to move on with his new family. Free to marry and free of the financial obligation of caring for an invalid wife.

I also don't think it was wise of the judge to take the word of Schiavo's family members as testimony that Terri wouldn't want to live in that condition. Unless a living will clearly states the patient's wishes, I don't think the judicial system should even be hearing cases like this. It's "he said/she said" which is nothing but hearsay and wouldn't be allowed in most courts.

Having said that, I would not want to be kept alive in Terri's condition if there was no hope of recovery. However, my health directive states that under no circumstances should water be withheld to end my life. That's just a barbaric way to go. If you're going to kill me, please do it as quickly and painlessly as possible.

 

[Hbgchick]

My main objection to Michael Schiavo making the decision to end Terri's life is that he had an obvious conflict of interest. It was to his benefit to end Terri's life since that would free him up to move on with his new family. Free to marry and free of the financial obligation of caring for an invalid wife.

Agreed - to a point. But then why not just divorce her and let her parents look after her? What was the driving need to continue the fight, if not for Terri? It certainly was not for his own gain, as you say - the longer she lived the longer he had to remain married to her and caring for her. If that was the motivation, why not just divorce her? I believe that he was carrying out her wishes to not want to live that way.

 

[Tricia]

So many ways to look at it but there is one thing I think we all need to remember.

This case was one of the most lidigated(sp?) cases in a right to die case in history. All of Michael's "bad" behavior was gone through by the courts with a fine tooth comb. Yet, the courts still decided that Michael had the right to make the decision and that he was only following Terry's wishes.

I want you all to remember that please. This was a court fight that went on for over a decade. Everything was laid out for the courts to see.

Now, why didn't Michael let Terri's parents take care of her? Especially since Terri had no sense of anything going on around her? Perhaps he really is keeping his promise to her. Then again, maybe not.

 

[Hbgchick]

So many ways to look at it but there is one thing I think we all need to remember.

This case was one of the most lidigated(sp?) cases in a right to die case in history. All of Michael's "bad" behavior was gone through by the courts with a fine tooth comb. Yet, the courts still decided that Michael had the right to make the decision and that he was only following Terry's wishes.

I want you all to remember that please. This was a court fight that went on for over a decade. Everything was laid out for the courts to see.

Now, why didn't Michael let Terri's parents take care of her? Especially since Terri had no sense of anything going on around her? Perhaps he really is keeping his promise to her. Then again, maybe not.

That's what I keep going back to Tricia. What motivation could he have possibly have had to keep fighting this if not for Terri? Obviously the courts believed him. Every possible scenario would have been better for him - had he let her parents "take over" care he could have been free and her parents would have been happy. I just can't imagine another reason to fight so hard to have her be set free if it weren't what he knew she wanted. If someone has another reason I'd be glad to hear it, but he sure had no monetary gain and was raked through the coals day in and day out in the media. Logic would have it, if he were such the selfish individual so many think that he is, why not just bow out and move on?

 

[Tricia]

That's what I keep going back to Tricia. What motivation could he have possibly have had to keep fighting this if not for Terri? Obviously the courts believed him. Every possible scenario would have been better for him - had he let her parents "take over" care he could have been free and her parents would have been happy. I just can't imagine another reason to fight so hard to have her be set free if it weren't what he knew she wanted. If someone has another reason I'd be glad to hear it, but he sure had no monetary gain and was raked through the coals day in and day out in the media. Logic would have it, if he were such the selfish individual so many think that he is, why not just bow out and move on?

I agree with you 100 percent. I can't say for sure I know I am right but what you posted makes the most sense.

I can certainly understand why people are upset with him though since her parents wanted to take care of her and they had all those quacks saying she could eventually "go to movies" and "out to dinner." Good Lord.

That's what got my dander up. How dare these doctors give the parents this false hope. When the autopsy was done it proved all the things the doctors who examined her said. She had only a brain stem. No way for her to even know she is a living being let alone "go out to dinner."

 

[Hbgchick]

I agree with you 100 percent. I can't say for sure I know I am right but what you posted makes the most sense.

I can certainly understand why people are upset with him though since her parents wanted to take care of her and they had all those quacks saying she could eventually "go to movies" and "out to dinner." Good Lord.

That's what got my dander up. How dare these doctors give the parents this false hope. When the autopsy was done it proved all the things the doctors who examined her said. She had only a brain stem. No way for her to even know she is a living being let alone "go out to dinner."

Agreed. But I think the parents were given a kernel of false hope, which they nurtured and nurtered and nurtured far beyond any reasonable time. If it were my husband, or my mother, or my child, I would HAVE to look at them at some point and say "You know? We need to end this charade.". I know I would. Not after a week, of course. Or a month. Or a couple of years even. But after that? No way. Even if, by some miracle she would have opened her eyes, it wouldn't have been the same old Terry smiling up at them. Her body had deteriorated by that point so that there is no way that she could have had any semblance of a life. It saddens me to see people in their position, of course. Do I feel for them? Of course. But they needed to let her go.

 

[Tricia]

Agreed. But I think the parents were given a kernel of false hope, which they nurtured and nurtered and nurtured far beyond any reasonable time. If it were my husband, or my mother, or my child, I would HAVE to look at them at some point and say "You know? We need to end this charade.". I know I would. Not after a week, of course. Or a month. Or a couple of years even. But after that? No way. Even if, by some miracle she would have opened her eyes, it wouldn't have been the same old Terry smiling up at them. Her body had deteriorated by that point so that there is no way that she could have had any semblance of a life. It saddens me to see people in their position, of course. Do I feel for them? Of course. But they needed to let her go.

Agreed Hbgchick.

I get the feeling Michael was a very difficult person to begin with. Perhaps his prickly personality along with the parents false hope is what really caused this thing to combust.

 

[Hbgchick]

Agreed there too Tricia! It's easier to blame someone who just simply isn't particularly likable. If he had the charm and charisma of, say, a Ted Bundy - who of course murdered a whole load of folks - I'll bet people wouldn't be as anxious to jump on him. It could be that he said some not so kind things in response to the parents false hope (along the lines of "get over it, she's never going to wake up") and ended up in trouble for it. I don't think him an unkind man, but if you have trouble communicating, which I think he - and many men (no offense to anyone!) do - it may have come off wrongly enough for the parents to have turned on him.