FL - Tracy Ocasio, 27, Orlando/Ocoee, 27 May 2009 - #1

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Wonder if a barfly w/ a good pair of ears showed up @ TR nowadays...:waitasec:
 
Welcome Calilady!!! :blowkiss:

Barfly at TR is an excellent idea - I would love to hear the results of a Friday and/or Saturday nite here- even a few cell pics would be awesome if certain folks were to appear there!

Re cellphone and 1 mi radius - I say it's one of 2 things:

1. He threw it as far as he could into some back woods on his way home down rr tracks or back street. But he would have had to do that with wallet and keys too right? Buried them on way home?

2. His dad knows something/has something/possibly involved?
 
cocoamom said:
Barfly at TR is an excellent idea - I would love to hear the results of a Friday and/or Saturday nite here- even a few cell pics would be awesome if certain folks were to appear there!
Click to expand...
*snipped*

...keeping in mind our prior disclaimer, of course. Personal safety comes first. I kinda envisioned someone convenient to drop by for a beer on the way home a few days a week...unaware of TR connection to either case. ;) :genie: :toast: Not too much :poke: just let somebody else 'educate'em IYKWIM. "Oh...really?...that's interesting..." [in an uninterested tone] :)

Afternoon vs. night would be safer. Would go no farther than bein' in the bar for 15-30mins for a cold one in broad daylight. No DUI's. No seeking out, etc. IYKWIM...be surprised if you'd be 'alone' in this effort IYKWIM. ;)

Re cellphone and 1 mi radius - I say it's one of 2 things:

1. He threw it as far as he could into some back woods on his way home down rr tracks or back street. But he would have had to do that with wallet and keys too right? Buried them on way home?

2. His dad knows something/has something/possibly involved?
Click to expand...
Expect the keys and/or wallet contents were why the septic tank was targeted. I'd fingerprint every bill in his wallet...maybe that's SOP. Wouldn't prove anything...but wouldn't hurt for a jury to hear either.

While the wallet & phone coulda been anywhere together or separately (cell until we get the 4:30 & 8:30AM ping info), Captain Obvious :propeller: tells me the key had to be w/ the car when dropped...so the keys had to start @ the car. IIRC, K9's went through the car (cadaver) w/ no alerts. I don't recall reading the details on what tracking K9's turned up (my brain is mixing Kesse case in a bit :bang:)

So...I did a ridiculous exercise. I'll spare you the details, but, I found a study that provided the average & std. dev. throwing distance of a man based on the weight of the object thrown. I found a range of cell phone weights and picked an average there (4.5 oz) and mapped the range around the car in which one would expect to find the cell phone if a man stepped out of the door and immediately hurled it as far as he could. Of course, this 'doughnut' would move with the thrower - for example as one walked down the railroad tracks. It's a 'doughut' because you give the range of a girlie-man-throw (- 3 std devs) up to a Bond-like throw (+ 3 std. devs). ;)

...then I noticed on the way north to Toole's house the railroad tracks go right behind the Ocoee Plaza where there were prolly plenty-o-dumpsters available. Wonder if anyone knows if LE searched these...it would seem likely given the location of the abandoned car. Anyway...add the cell phone 'doughnut' to the list of things you'll find yourself doing when you aren't local :crazy:

Wish we knew more 'bout this cast o' characters whereabouts that morning and where they might've been that would be conducive to 'eliminating' a cell phone & keys. :confused: I'm thinking a metal press or some shredding equipment would do the trick just perfectly. ;)

Updated map link: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...199,-81.546149&spn=0.009196,0.013154&t=h&z=16
 
cocoamom said:
Welcome Calilady!!! :blowkiss:

Barfly at TR is an excellent idea - I would love to hear the results of a Friday and/or Saturday nite here- even a few cell pics would be awesome if certain folks were to appear there!

Re cellphone and 1 mi radius - I say it's one of 2 things:

1. He threw it as far as he could into some back woods on his way home down rr tracks or back street. But he would have had to do that with wallet and keys too right? Buried them on way home?

2. His dad knows something/has something/possibly involved?
Click to expand...

BondJamesBond said:
*snipped*

...keeping in mind our prior disclaimer, of course. Personal safety comes first. I kinda envisioned someone convenient to drop by for a beer on the way home a few days a week...unaware of TR connection to either case. ;) :genie: :toast: Not too much :poke: just let somebody else 'educate'em IYKWIM. "Oh...really?...that's interesting..." [in an uninterested tone] :)

Afternoon vs. night would be safer. Would go no farther than bein' in the bar for 15-30mins for a cold one in broad daylight. No DUI's. No seeking out, etc. IYKWIM...be surprised if you'd be 'alone' in this effort IYKWIM. ;)


Expect the keys and/or wallet contents were why the septic tank was targeted. I'd fingerprint every bill in his wallet...maybe that's SOP. Wouldn't prove anything...but wouldn't hurt for a jury to hear either.

While the wallet & phone coulda been anywhere together or separately (cell until we get the 4:30 & 8:30AM ping info), Captain Obvious :propeller: tells me the key had to be w/ the car when dropped...so the keys had to start @ the car. IIRC, K9's went through the car (cadaver) w/ no alerts. I don't recall reading the details on what tracking K9's turned up (my brain is mixing Kesse case in a bit :bang:)

So...I did a ridiculous exercise. I'll spare you the details, but, I found a study that provided the average & std. dev. throwing distance of a man based on the weight of the object thrown. I found a range of cell phone weights and picked an average there (4.5 oz) and mapped the range around the car in which one would expect to find the cell phone if a man stepped out of the door and immediately hurled it as far as he could. Of course, this 'doughnut' would move with the thrower - for example as one walked down the railroad tracks. It's a 'doughut' because you give the range of a girlie-man-throw (- 3 std devs) up to a Bond-like throw (+ 3 std. devs). ;)

...then I noticed on the way north to Toole's house the railroad tracks go right behind the Ocoee Plaza where there were prolly plenty-o-dumpsters available. Wonder if anyone knows if LE searched these...it would seem likely given the location of the abandoned car. Anyway...add the cell phone 'doughnut' to the list of things you'll find yourself doing when you aren't local :crazy:

Wish we knew more 'bout this cast o' characters whereabouts that morning and where they might've been that would be conducive to 'eliminating' a cell phone & keys. :confused: I'm thinking a metal press or some shredding equipment would do the trick just perfectly. ;)

Updated map link: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...199,-81.546149&spn=0.009196,0.013154&t=h&z=16
Click to expand...

bjb you are cracking me up w your nonchalante barfly act, gotta admit I'm relieved you clarified daytime barfly... was breaking out in the eebie jeebies just thinking about leavin there on a dark nite (guess I'll never make much of an undercover agent, sigh...)

Like cadaver dogs it was reported bloodhounds (tracking/trailing dogs) also found no trace of Tracy near his home.

It's only a hunch but I don't see any of these guys going to elaborate lengths and pressing or shredding keys, cell etc... I can, however, see JVH tossing them, eg into nearby dumpster or even Starke Lk. (you don't have to worry about keys floating up to the surface...)

We're gonna let the "girlie-throw" comment slide for now... afterall, bond has never been known to be exactly a feminist. ;) Can't believe I'm ahead of schedule... and found 20 mins to spare! I know I will come back to some amazing ideas, you all make such a great team :thumb:

:parrot:
 
kiki the parrot said:
bjb you are cracking me up w your nonchalante barfly act, gotta admit I'm relieved you clarified daytime barfly... was breaking out in the eebie jeebies just thinking about leavin there on a dark nite (guess I'll never make much of an undercover agent, sigh...)

Like cadaver dogs it was reported bloodhounds (tracking/trailing dogs) also found no trace of Tracy near his home.

It's only a hunch but I don't see any of these guys going to elaborate lengths and pressing or shredding keys, cell etc... I can, however, see JVH tossing them, eg into nearby dumpster or even Starke Lk. (you don't have to worry about keys floating up to the surface...)

We're gonna let the "girlie-throw" comment slide for now... afterall, bond has never been known to be exactly a feminist. ;) Can't believe I'm ahead of schedule... and found 20 mins to spare! I know I will come back to some amazing ideas, you all make such a great team :thumb:

:parrot:
Click to expand...

OK...FIRST, Kiki...apparently you've solved time travel...'cause by my watch you're squeezin' in >24hrs into today. :yow:

Glad you enjoyed the first installment of Barfly Theatre. :genie: That may just become a recurring role we pull out as-needed. ;)

Was wondering 'bout tracking K9's around the car. IIRC, cadaver K9's negative on the car...but don't recall comment 'bout tracking K9's & car. I'm reminded a bit of the Haleigh case where the trail went cold near the RR tracks. I'm kinda curious if one walks on the trail for a long enough distance...the effect of a subsequent passing train would be enough to eliminate the scent trail IYKWIM. :beagle-flip: Amazing animals. I'm sure someone will run off and get the train schedule for that day :whistle: to see if one went through between 1:30AM and later that day when the K9's were deployed.

Also wondering if Tracy's key fob had a remote keyless entry. IF it did...and IF its still intact, and not in water, there seem to be devices on the market (within a limited range) than can help you find one of these:
While I haven't researched thoroughly I see that some of these require an advance set-up to program (obviously out). Like to know if LE and TES utilizes this technology in their searching :waitasec: It would be more like finding a needle in a hay bale instead of a hay stack IYKWIM. The good news would be that a key fob's battery has a tremendous charge duration.

BTW...thanks for overlooking Bond being Bond. In my defense...at least I did say, "girlie-man-throw". :)
:snooty: I can see you're not buyin' it. .

You'll note I was wise enough to completely avoid Barfly bein' blonde. :slap: :doh:
 
[LE said there was no scent of her near the car. maybe she was transported alive away from the car on the way to JH house?
There's so much we don't know.[/QUOTE]

If there was no scent of her leading away from the car then that would mean another person drove it there. Why didn't they get the dogs to see if they could pick up JH scent outside the car? If the dog followed his scent back to his house, then bingo we would know he put her car there.
 
I think the attack in Fern Park is the closest thing we have to a solid lead as to where TO and others could be found. I have given this a lot of thought and with him trying to snap her neck, it would make sense he had a dumping sight nearby. It is important to find out the exact location of where that attack occurred and start the searches there, imo. I still think he buried his victims in one place instead of him randomly finding other sights. This would also fit into my thinking they are in the NE quadrant of that circle on Bond's map.

We know when his ex moved, but we don't know if he was still with her at the time. The breakup could also have been a catalyst for him. We don't know what preceeds the attacks besides his rage, but something must set him off.

Who takes him to the bars? Wouldn't it be normal for them to give him a ride home afterwards? Do they not think it is strange when he asks for these women to take him home? Someone or several people must be his taxi service TO the bars. He isn't walking to get there. He appears to be a creature of habit when it comes to the bars he prefers which goes in line with him being consistent where he leaves his victims, imo.
 
dearmont said:
I don't think JVH was thinking he was going to be caught - he probably didn't realize there was security cameras at the Tap Room. Perhaps he figured Tracy's car would be "stolen" from where it was parked that night - knowing the area and potential for it to "disappear" if it was left there long enough - unattended and unlocked. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

I disagree becuase her keys were not found. neither was Jennifer's
 
[I will say this...no one seems to be shy about dumping trash out in the open so why the hole? Truly, it was proabably beautiful scenery in the past that is now littered with tires, fridges and beer cans.


PLUS...there are small ponds scattered throughout the area. We used to stop for water for the horses. They get much much bigger when it rains.

Let me know about posting the main streets in the area. Thanks![/QUOTE]

Maybe they should be checking out all these old freezer dumped. Great place to hide a body.
 
I would be questoning the father. Do we know where he lives? He has an arrest record also and the apple may not fall far from the tree. For him to give LE permission to cut down the tree and search the septic tank might mean he knows where TO is? I think he is covering for him anyway with that whole story he was hanging out with his dad after TO left. BS!
 
BondJamesBond said:
You'll note I was wise enough to completely avoid Barfly bein' blonde. :slap: :doh:
Click to expand...

Respectfully Snipped

OK Bond,

I was just about to book my family vacation to Jamaica but I'm thinking Orlando are might be nice this time of year... BTW I'm blonde too LOLOL

Sorry OT but I'm having fun with your humor today!!!
 
His father must live in that house for him to give permission for the search and to remove the trees. I don't believe his father knows anything about TO since she was never there, imo. While he could be lying to LE about the alibi that night, it appears he is cooperating to some extent.
 
TexasLil said:
Respectfully Snipped

OK Bond,

I was just about to book my family vacation to Jamaica but I'm thinking Orlando area might be nice this time of year... BTW I'm blonde too LOLOL

Sorry OT but I'm having fun with your humor today!!!
Click to expand...

Ya' think it might be *obvious* if a dozen new :genie::genie:patrons :genie::genie: roll into TR this weekend :floorlaugh:

...and, while we're on the gravel-road...:rolleyes:

As one of THE original Bond Girls its prolly not well-known that savin' my arse is actually in your job description ;) You do it so often & so well. :blowkiss: Thanks for that.

BTW...I couldn't find the "Incoming!" smilie, to go w/ the blonde ref. Ya' like how I got it in there w/o really getting it in there IYKWIM. ;) Kinda like peeps that say 'I'm sorry if I offended anyone' instead of sayin' 'I'm sorry, what I said was wrong'. :rolleyes:

OK...look!...there's the pavement up ahead. :silenced:
 
They should check Toole's house. Did you see the dirt road going to his house. It looks like people don't go down there much. From the air his house is on a big piece of land. Looks like farm land with buidings on it. They should definitelly check here.
 
The OCSO has trained human cadaver dogs which were used in the Anthony case.

Bond, do you mean have any of us ever smelled human decomp?
 
Kateyes said:
This is somewhat OT, but we are talking about TO who is missing - has there been anything else said by LE about the body found on West Kennedy Blvd? That is not a great area, in terms of crime rate, but somehow I really doubt it is TO. Just wondering if anything else has been reported.
Click to expand...

http://www.wftv.com/news/19873161/detail.html


"Deputies found Lashanda Brand's badly decomposed body off Kennedy Boulevard Monday.

Her unique tattoos led investigators to her identity. Deputies are ruling her death as a homicide."


I can't seem to get the pictures of her tattoos to open, though.
 
Interesting how this article only gives her name but no description of when she was last seen, if she was ever reported missing, etc. It's a shame. Prayers to her family and friends.
 
I have a theory i would like to share. My theory would explain alot.

1) Tracy and Jimmy leave taproom, go somewhere, something bad happens and he kills her.
2) Hataway leaves Tracy somewhere close to his house but not the final destination (hidden in a patch of woods - it's middle of the night no one would see). Tracy's cell phone always has been and still is in her pocket.
3) Hataway drives around for a few moments looking for a good final destination spot (ie: dumpster) near where he has temporarily disposed of her
4) Hatway parks the car on Franklin as an easy way to run to Tracy's body without cameras catching him from some random business and he can run into the wooded area, down the tracks and to her body without being noticed. At this time he has the keys to the car.
5) Hataway walks to Tracy's body, moves Tracy from temporary spot to a dumpster he had located. At this time, her phone accidently dials at 4:30am when she is dropped into the dumpster (remember it's in her pocket).
6) Hataway returns to the car to move it, but notices he has dropped the keys somewhere while moving her body
7) Hataway thinks that maybe he left the keys in the car and frantically searches the car - moving the seats forward. He then retraces looking for her keys, doesn't find them - could be they accidently fell into the dumpster when he dropped her in
8) 8:30am phone call to Tracy - pings from her pocket, in dumpster near his home.
9) At some time the dumpster is emptied and Tracy, her phone and possibly her keys are now in the landfill
 
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