For those who believe Darlie innocent - help me understand.

Discussion in 'Darlie Routier' started by TexasLori, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. Leischa

    Leischa Active Member

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    First of all I want to say that I read all the transcripts and about everything there was to read about this case, except for the books. I can understand how people can think she’s guilty, but I do believe that she’s innocent. I’ll try and comment what you wrote, hoping to remember everything I’ve read on the case a few years ago.

     


  2. TartLemon

    TartLemon Active Member

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    This case has me stumped. After all this time, I can't definitively make up my mind. Too many things on both sides of the argument just don't add up.
     
  3. 2 percent

    2 percent New Member

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    I think this was a crime of opportunity more than anything. Yes, she did plan it but she was also waiting for a chance to kill her children. Drake was left out for practical reasons - she'd have to go through Darin.
    Yes, the insurance money is a weak motive but since motive is not required to prove guilt, it's immaterial to me.
    Darlie had court appointed lawyers at first. They went to Mulder and paid him money they had raised through selling possessions and borrowing from family.

    We don't know she did know Damon was still alive before she got on the phone.

    The teens in the car were allowed to go because there was no legal basis to detain them.

    The evidence clearly shows Damon was stabbed at two different times, two different areas. The timeline only starts after the second stabbing and we don't know how much she accomplished before the second stabbing.

    Remember Darlie said, and evidence shows, Damon was sleeping right next to the couch. You would have to believe an intruder was able to squeeze in that space and stab a child. Not only that, Darlie also says Damon could speak and he was till alive after the initial attack. Given the small space where the crime had to happen and the vocal ability, the first attack on Damon that occurred inches away from a mother would have woken her up.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with the strength of your non-dominant hand. We don't even know if she's ambidextrous.
    The wounds on her fingers are not consistent with defensive wounds on the hands/fingers of victims of similar crimes. In fact they are an anomaly as a defensive wound. A search of defensive wounds on the hands is recommended.
    Arm bone? Bites on the inside of her cheek? Nightshirt? I'm not sure I follow you
    As you said...average intelligence at best.
    There is talk her breast size was not her choice.
    I'm not a believer that Darlie's neck was sliced in one motion. I think there are clear hesitation marks and there was at least 2, possibly 3, swipes at her neck.
    Scenario: Darlie goes to the sink and presses the knife into her neck and starts cutting. Pain hits her and she jerks back the knife, possibly jerking on the necklace at the same time but since the pain and determination is still in control she doesn't notice the necklace. Her next attempt she starts deep again but instinctively jerks her body back because she knows it's going to hurt. Ditto the third attempt if it happened. You'll notice the cuts went from deep to shallow at least twice, possibly three times.
    To recap, she inflicts her neck damage and unwittingly damages her necklace. Later as she was pressing a towel to her neck the necklace worked its way into the wound.
    The purpose of forensics is to determine what is valid evidence and what is not. That's why the observations of all the people at the scene is important for scene integrity. Nothing should be dismissed based on the assumption of things that have not been officially reported
    It was a wine glass, typically thin glass or crystal. Yes it would shatter and, being thin, it would most likely penetrate her feet.
    I've never seen statements that Darlie's feet were tough or thick skinned. However I do know the skin of the instep is soft and not as calloused.

    I must say I've never seen anyone say there's never been other cases of children taken or killed in their sleep with the family home. However I don't remember one where the mother was inches from the attack/murder and claims to not only hear nothing but didn't wake up.

    A possibility isn't enough to get Darlie another trial. There has to be clear proof, probably with a name attache, to overturn her sentence. Even if she gets that trial it won't be enough to point to a single print for acquittal, there's way too much evidence against her

    Cleary because it wasn't a violation that would revoke their licenses.

    Dana's idea or not, Darlie participated in a celebration that was questionable. I've seen people on sedatives, painkillers and or anti anxiety meds go to the funerals of their children and are solemn.
    Doubling down, the interview clearly showed Darlie's state of mind. The children were gone, they were good kids, Darlie and Darin were great parents because they took their kids to eat foreign food, etc.

    I'm not clear about your point. Inches from death does not clear her of self inflicting the wound. Like you said..not intelligent.

    The mistakes are more frequent than would normally be in transcripts but in reality it was only about 3 mistakes per page. Also, it would be impossible to purposefully make those mistakes to influence the outcome of the trial. Remember, only a portion of the entire case was reconstructed from only notes. Everything else had tapes, notes and the transcripts for reference. The only case I can recall where a new trial was given based on transcripts was a trial where there was not actual court recording and the prosecutor and judge "reconstructed them from memory". It really has to be that blatant.
    I'm going to call you on the traumatic amnesia stuff. It's well docmented there has never been a case of total amnesia that she claims without there being a physical injury to the head/brain.

    I doubt Darlie had a dress rehearsal. So I think the possiblity she brought the knife over head that far is likely.
    As for the blood, both on the shirt and in the bag, cast off blood and transfer is easily detected even by most laymen and in the event it is questionable I trust the blood expert that was called in this case knew what he was testifying to, especially after giving his testing parameters and methods in court.

    Court reporters aren't part of the case.
    The cops plead the Fifth because they were accused of a felony, in court, by an officer of the court. Not only is it their Right, they were required to do that.
    There was no illegal taping. The cops had the permission of the owners of the property.
    Actually, witnesses and persons of interest can be interviewed under the influence of everything. People under the influence of alcohol and drugs are interviewed and can legally waive their Rights every day. Now the state of mind can be called into question, but no court will ever allow a person of interest to wait until they're all better and off all meds to be interviewed in a case where they are a suspect.
     
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  4. gabrielle11

    gabrielle11 Former Member

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    For me it seemed rather simple. If the prosecution is correct and Darlie committed the crimes to basically get rid of her responsibilities, then the psychology is all wrong. If she wanted to be free and this is true, she would have killed the baby (and how simple it would be to smother or drown a child that age and have it be an accident). She would not have killed the older boys and certainly not in the manner in which the crime was committed. For as unlikely as it seems, the intruder theory makes the most sense.
     
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  5. Tulessa

    Tulessa Well-Known Member

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    And I'm still straddling the fence. <modsnip> I respect everyone's opinion. :)
     
  6. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Knower of Things

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    It was said that Darlie hated the fact that the 2 older boys were rambunctious, messy, and she wanted her pristine house w/pristine white carpet. A newborn baby isn't creating a mess anywhere. Darlie was also said to suffer from post-partum depression, as well as having a personality disorder. She was also taking drugs (aka 'uppers') to try and get the baby weight off, she wasn't getting along with Darin, money was drying up and her world was not right. I don't think it's only one thing that causes a person to do this, but a series of things combined with stressors and mental issues of some kind.

    That's not an excuse, btw, she knew right from wrong, which is the test for 'insanity.' The thing is, trying to make sense of killing children never can make sense because a normal, rational, non personality-disordered parent would not do such a thing. That, as much as anything else, is what creates the uncertainty for those who struggle to understand that D.R. did commit this crime.
     
  7. TJC

    TJC New Member

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    I've always thought Darin's comment was the most accurate; that she was most likely unconscious after her initial attack, which she wouldn't remember. So she doesn't remember fighting back, because it was before falling into unconsciousness.

    I was knocked unconscious in a car accident and didn't know it until later. And not because I remembered being unconscious, but because other people saw me and thought I was dead. But in my head, no time had passed from the impact to when I was trying to get out of my car.
     
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  8. White Rain

    White Rain Active Member

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    see below, made a mistake posting
     
  9. White Rain

    White Rain Active Member

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    I disagree as a mom of 3 kids. I know how rambunctious kids can be! The older kids were Darlie's problem. They were in and out, making messes, draining the water out of the spa, wanting friends over every day, friends that could make a mess and even Darin had stated her cleaning had become obsessive....Older kids school age needs great clothes for school, they get invited to birthday parties where you hope your kids gift is better than others...etc...Meanwhile the baby...no.....he doesn't have friends...he doesn't have to be dressed to impress anyone. He is not destroying the house as kids the boys ages are known to do! The only problem the baby was causing was that he flipped over in his crib...then kept her awake at night. So Darin was sleeping upstairs with the baby. Odd that a baby flipping over kept her awake but she slept right on thru 2 boys being stabbed to death just feet away.
    I do agree though...there wasn't just "one" thing that caused this but a volcano of stuff going on.
     
  10. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    I agree.

    I was really into this case many years ago and nothing I've read since persuades me to believe that DR is innocent.

    DR having a personality disorder is extremely likely, and the black and white thinking is attributed to this disorder. DR would characterize a person (her child/ren) as all good, or all bad. This leads to scapegoating which is another reason for choosing to kill the 'bad' children and keep the 'good' child alive. This is child like thinking because the disordered person has remained emotionally a stunted child because of x, y, z reasons. JMO
     
  11. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Knower of Things

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    You disagree with my stating that Darlie was said to be feeling overwhelmed and disliking the mess and rambunctiousness of the 2 older boys, but then detailed in your own post that the older kids were Darlie's responsibility and were rambunctious and Darlie was obsessive about her clean house? You basically disagreed with my post and then repeated what I said.
     
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  12. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Knower of Things

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    I don't pretend to know what Darlie (or any killer) is thinking, but we know that some mothers can and do kill their own children, so any belief that a mother couldn't do that is out the window.

    The evidence is what I found convincing including:

    - Her multiple changing stories about what happened
    - The crime scene evidence did not match her stories
    - No evidence of an intruder
    - Multiple pieces of gold jewelry left in plain sight on the kitchen counter
    - Fibers consistent with the screen window found on the knife placed back in the knife block
    - The blood at the sink
    - Blood from the boys found on the back of her Tshirt
    - No evidence of bruising on her arms but then severe bruising appearing days after being released from hospital when testimony indicated bruises would start appearing 24 - 48hrs and she was in the hospital for several days.

    Just to name a few things...
     
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  13. dexter75

    dexter75 Well-Known Member

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    I felt this way too&#128521;

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     
  14. chlban

    chlban Well-Known Member

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    There is no evidence, none at all, of an intruder. It has been shown over and over again, how she staged the scene, quite badly to be sure. The motive is less important in this case than the overwhelming physical evidence which is why she was convicted and none of her endless appeals have ever proven the least bit successful.

    The baby was with Darrin. It could have been as simple as access. It could be that she is one of those women that loves babies, but little children, not so much. Maybe she thought it would be easier with only one, or maybe no thought went into that at all.

    It always amazes me that people try to apply logic and determine a logical motive for women that murder their babies. There isn't one, because the act itself is neither logical or normal. Darlie is a sick, selfish baby killer and it infuriates me that she is still alive after all these years. I thought Texas was a state that actually applied the DP, unlike my home state of CA.
     
  15. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Knower of Things

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    All good points, chiban!

    It's worth remembering that motive in murder cases never has to be proved by the state. If motive is known or can be determined that's icing on the cake, but it's not an element required to be proved to determine guilt.
     
  16. SClemmons

    SClemmons New Member

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    What do you mean by the blood was being distributed?
     
  17. SClemmons

    SClemmons New Member

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    What "Federal judge" are you referring to here?
     
  18. Mbrooke

    Mbrooke New Member

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    I would like to address the allegations of the nurses "lying" in their charting. Charting is to be non judgemental. I can't tell you how many times I have erased what I wanted to say in my notes, and instead kept it short and to the point. I worked on a floor with neurosurgery patients for 8 years. I've seen some crazy behavior. I've seen people who I thought were being manipulative, dramatic, etc. but I can't write my feelings or judgement in a medical document. It isn't a journal. It's a patient chart.
    And you can bet your ass if there were bruises covering her entire arms there would be documentation of it during her hospital stay.

    For the record I think she's guilty as hell. I lived only blocks away at the time of the murders. I don't think the silly string convicted her, I really don't think it says much. The evidence, however, speaks volumes in my opinion.
     
  19. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    My question, why is she still on death row? Why is she still here? If they have doubts about her sentence why not give her a new trial? Otherwise get it over. Has there ever been a case similar to this carried out this long?
     
  20. Mbrooke

    Mbrooke New Member

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    That's a good question. I don't know why she is sucking more tax payer money by being on death row for 21 years if they aren't going to pull the trigger, so to speak.
     

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