Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported missing 7/15/2008 #16

[FifthEssence]

Our Forum Moderator is using my good looks to get your attention. ​

On the whole, everyone is pretty darn good at following the TOS and that makes my Mod job a lot easier. Occasionally a little reminder is necessary. Some may notice a portion of a post or a whole post has disappeared. Reason being, not ON TOPIC. Understand, I honestly don't have the free time to PM and explain why something was removed.

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*Consider linking/copy quote the related astrological finding to your post so the readers can understand the association you're making in response to the analysis.

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In some instances, thumbing through the older threads that are filled with charts and analysis, may bring you up to speed. The main players charts, the Events and activity charts tied in to July 15, '08 through the date Caylee's remains were found and beyond, were analyzed in DEPTH. They're all dated. For your convenience, a list of the existing Caylee Astro threads since '08 can be found on Page 1 of this thread, page 1 of any of the older threads as well.
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STAYING on TRACK
Think about this, OFF TOPIC posts distract from the Astrology readers expect to find in this forum. There's a chain effect that is sometimes triggered following that one post with non-astro associated content,and in short time others respond by chiming in with their opinions-no reference to any particular astrological aspect, the thread quickly begins looking like a chatty multi-directional thread. KWIM?
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I appreciate your consideration.
Thanks!
FIFTHESSENCE
Moderator

 

[Leomoon80]

Ref:

On the whole, everyone is pretty darn good at following the TOS and that makes my Mod job a lot easier. Occasionally a little reminder is necessary. Some may notice a portion of a post or a whole post has disappeared. Reason being, not ON TOPIC. Understand, I honestly don't have the free time to PM and explain why something was removed.

I don't mind not getting a PM, actually, I'd prefer it, lol.

I DO understand the work must be overwhelming sometimes, when a case such as this one gets so much traffic for a Moderator.

No problem here, any editing of my posts, I hardly notice anyway. Actually sometimes I think I'm far too verbose and that's always been a problem with my Venus in SAG and NN in Gemini so, edit away anything that doesn't belong of mine, no need to chat about it.

Leomoon.

 

[katydid23]

This is such a thought provoking thread. As you know, I know nothing about astrology, but am fascinated by the interpretations of the charts here. It has been really interesting to learn that individuals can have the same things in their charts, but act differently - a postive way or a negative way. Maybe I am simplifying. Maybe I need to be corrected (on shaky ground here). I agree that we all have free will and make choices that determine our fate.
I do think we must be held accountable for our acts unless there is a diminished capacity wherein one does not understand right or wrong. I have felt all along that she would get LWOP. Based only on my intuitive feeling.

That is correct. People have free will at all times to decide which course of action to take to deal with their aspects, impulses. Someone with Casey's Pisces grouping of planets could choose to use that imagination in a more productive way. Maybe she did not like to be regimented or bored with routine so she could try a job that used her piscean artistic skills as she matured. Nothing in her chart forced her to steal and lie every day.

Something that is important to point out to the astrology students is the differences between 'natal' or birth charts and the use of 'event' charts. Birth charts are of people and so they have the added element of humanistic free will. We all need to take that into account. So I cannot look at a person's chart and say exactly what they will do in their life. Just what their inclinations, talents and weaknesses may be.

In an event or horary chart it is more definitive. And that is why astrologers who study the art of that type of astrology can be more exact about their predicted outcomes.

 

[katydid23]

Arabic Part of Retribution & Retaliation: Asc + Sun - Mars

This occurs. There isn't anything (in this imperfect world) that we mortals can do about it. As soon as you're born, it clicks into your life - along with all the other Arabic Parts & Midpoint points that apply to each and every one of us.

KC won't be singled out by the universe unfairly - it was written when she was born - if you do this or that, you will incur this benefit/wrath.

I have experience the part of R&R. It was exact to the minute.

I see that you are really good at understanding the Arabic Parts. I have a question for you, or anyone who wants to add their input.

The chart for the Defense Opening Statement has the Part Of Fortune exactly conjunct the MC of the event chart. That really makes me nervous somehow.
I am wondering if you have any idea what that might indicate for their case.

The only thing I can think of is that they have a rare stroke of luck with the court somehow. Other than that...??????

[​

 

[Leomoon80]

I see that you are really good at understanding the Arabic Parts. I have a question for you, or anyone who wants to add their input.

The chart for the Defense Opening Statement has the Part Of Fortune exactly conjunct the MC of the event chart. That really makes me nervous somehow.
I am wondering if you have any idea what that might indicate for their case.

The only thing I can think of is that they have a rare stroke of luck with the court somehow. Other than that...??????

I think the Defense Opening Statement Chart is rather dire for them because of the location of the POF and the Sun being conjunct the Angle (very important as you know), but in the locale of fixed stars in the Pleaides star constellation, called "The Weeping Sisters"

Any planets or in this case it's the Sun and POF in this constellation will not be well served for it's a known area for problems arising.

The Sun at 3Gemini is square the Descendent and Ascendent which really suggests, imo - that they lost before they began. For the Sun or vitality of this chart is hampered by it's square to both angles, and in particular, the D/C or 7th house "cusp of others", contains both Chiron (wounding) and the Moon (secondary or co-ruler of the event chart) with Mercury (ruler of the Chart) in the 9th in Taurus, having no essential dignity to help it along.

Mercury is in the 9th I see here as Judicial proceedings the Law or the Higher philosophy house, and is conj. to Venus which does have dignity in Taurus, but cancels out the good by it's conjunction to Mars in Detriment in the sign of Taurus (within 39minutes) and they both Quincunx (harsh aspect) Saturn which is exalted in Libra, in the 2nd house, the traditional house of values.


I don’t see this chart reflecting a benefit for the Defense.
It reflects the opposite, imo.

Here is an interesting mention of the Astronomy of the Pleiades I found on this site by Nancy Fenn, who does a lot of critical degree work:

http://www.bemyastrologer.com/constellationtaurus.html
(NOTE: when she says, "the Constellation of Taurus" that would still be in the tropical location of Gemini as shown on the Defense Opening Statement Chart
Sun & POF which moved into place in the tropical sign of Gemini. The tropical Zodiac is approx. 23 degrees ahead of the Sidereal Zodiac, due to the precession of the equinoxes. But it's the same here for all intent and purposes.

Astronomically speaking ... the Pleiades open cluster of stars is 10 million years old,(?) and is smaller and more compact than the Hyades cluster. It has not yet had time to dissipate as much as the Hyades. Over the years, the stars in the Pleiades will move farther and farther apart because the gravity within the cluster isn't strong enough to keep them in their original positions. One day in the far future, the Pleiades will be as spread out as the Hyades are now. There are many more than 7 stars now visible in the constellation with the naked eye.

Many a night I saw the Pleiades, rising thro' the mellow shade,
Glitter like a swarm of fireflies tangled in a silver braid.
by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

 

[Andromeda]

I am not certain that she actually 'lived' this fantasy life or believed this fantasy life at all.

Her kite helped blow things out of proportion and things got out of control. But she never believed in those fantasies as being real, she believed in them as ways to cover up her actions and her behavior from others. She was cunning, and devious imo. .

I'm not picking sides b/c all of our astros as phenomenal. Seriously. But I have to agree with Katy's quoted statement. For me, this basically sums up KC's "personality" and what motivate(s) her. She is cunning and (this) is how she goes about (it). jmo

 

[Paulette]

The POF in Defense chart is 2:08 Gemini trine "Caylee" 2:12 Libra.

Moon 2:12 Pisces is quincunx "Caylee" 2:12 Libra.

I don't know what represents the jury? The Moon in the 6th house of duty. (?)

Funny this. "Jose" 29:46 Leo (12th house) opposes the Moon 2:12 Pisces (6th house).

I've never seen JB's chart, so I can't compare.

I just want to make clear that I'm not an astrologer by any stretch - just a wee bit of insight sometimes.

In KC's 2011 Solar Return, she has "Skuld" (things pertaining to the future) 29:11 Rx Leo, quincunx BML 29:35 Pisces and Sun 29 Pisces. Notice that in the Defense chart "Jose" has found that Leo spot. Regulus the Royal Star. Beware! If you abuse this position, be prepared to fall from grace.

 

[katydid23]

The POF in Defense chart is 2:08 Gemini trine "Caylee" 2:12 Libra.

===================================================

That is good news. That leads me to believe that the Part of Fortune will be in harmony with Justice for Caylee. Thanks.

 

[katydid23]

I think the Defense Opening Statement Chart is rather dire for them because of the location of the POF and the Sun being conjunct the Angle (very important as you know), but in the locale of fixed stars in the Pleaides star constellation, called "The Weeping Sisters"

Any planets or in this case it's the Sun and POF in this constellation will not be well served for it's a known area for problems arising.

The Sun at 3Gemini is square the Descendent and Ascendent which really suggests, imo - that they lost before they began. For the Sun or vitality of this chart is hampered by it's square to both angles, and in particular, the D/C or 7th house "cusp of others", contains both Chiron (wounding) and the Moon (secondary or co-ruler of the event chart) with Mercury (ruler of the Chart) in the 9th in Taurus, having no essential dignity to help it along.

Mercury is in the 9th I see here as Judicial proceedings the Law or the Higher philosophy house, and is conj. to Venus which does have dignity in Taurus, but cancels out the good by it's conjunction to Mars in Detriment in the sign of Taurus (within 39minutes) and they both Quincunx (harsh aspect) Saturn which is exalted in Libra, in the 2nd house, the traditional house of values.


I don’t see this chart reflecting a benefit for the Defense.
It reflects the opposite, imo.

Here is an interesting mention of the Astronomy of the Pleiades I found on this site by Nancy Fenn, who does a lot of critical degree work:

http://www.bemyastrologer.com/constellationtaurus.html
(NOTE: when she says, "the Constellation of Taurus" that would still be in the tropical location of Gemini as shown on the Defense Opening Statement Chart
Sun & POF which moved into place in the tropical sign of Gemini. The tropical Zodiac is approx. 23 degrees ahead of the Sidereal Zodiac, due to the precession of the equinoxes. But it's the same here for all intent and purposes.



Many a night I saw the Pleiades, rising thro' the mellow shade,
Glitter like a swarm of fireflies tangled in a silver braid.
by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Thank you for pointing out the Weeping Sisters. I don't usually work with the fixed stars that much so I overlooked that. Doesn't the Prosecution run into some of the same problems then since they have the Sun @ 3 Gemini as well?

As for the Sun squaring the Asc/Desx, I have usually seen that as a part of what comes with having a Sun in the tenth conjunct the MC. I see it as a positive thing quite often and very powerful. Can it be seen also as a strong competitor who never gives in ?

And the 7th house with the Moon and Chiron, in my opinion, it may actually describe the Prosecution team as well, as the 7th represents the opponent of the first, the Defense team. I think the Sun in the 10th is a pretty strong competitor for the Moon in the 7th in Pisces, with Chiron the wounded warrior nearby.

I agree that the Mercury has no essential dignity and is bogged down by the Venus/Mars conjunction. That conjunction is in an exact quincunx with Saturn, as you noted. But the Mercury, the ruler of the defense OS, is 3 degrees past the quincinx, so it might not have that bad an effect on their case. imoo

I agree that it is a difficult chart for the Defense team. I just wonder specifically what it will mean that the Part of Fortune is right atop the MC. I wonder because I see the top of the chart as the ultimate point of power and authority. I see it as the court, the judge, and his rulings. So I wondered if perhaps the POF there would be fortunate for the DT in some way. Could the judge rule in favor of the DT in a very big ruling perhaps?

p.s. I also have my Venus in Sag [@ 2,] so perhaps that is why we have such longwinded discussions? lol

 

[FifthEssence]

Bringing this forward, post #46 by SOULSCAPE

We had been told in advance to expect 'shocking' revelations' from Defense at Casey Anthony's murder trial, revelations that would 'immediately' clarify what 'really happened.'

The chart produced shows 29 Libra on the 3rd House cusp, symbolizing the Statement itself. This suggests Defense is making an 'end of their rope,' last-ditch effort to save Casey's gluteus maximus. To paraphrase a comment I made upthread, the 29th degree of any sign is the End of the Train Ride.

Scorpio of sexual abuse is intercepted within the 3rd House of Statements, and wouldn't you know it, Defense spoke of secret/hidden (interception) sexual abuse, and deep, twisted family secrets (Scorpio).

Lord 3 of Statements VENUS and Lord Intercepted 3 of Statements MARS are partile conjunct at 10 Taurus in the 9th House of the Jury, putting the 'real story' (3rd House) directly in front of the Jurors. However, note well that VENUS partile conjunct MARS 10 Taurus are also partile inconjunct SATURN RX 10 Libra.

SATURN RX may signify (among other things) a dead (Rx) 5th House Child (Capricorn on 5th House cusp), a testimony fortified by SATURN's partile conjunction to the notorious Death Star VINDEMIATRIX 10 Libra, a.k.a. The Widowmaker & significator of death in the family.

The inconjunct from the 3rd House Words/Story/Statement Lords to Lord 5 the Child translates as a complete disconnect. Further, I see nothing in this chart to persuade me that Defense's 'story' may be true.

SOULSCAPE post #63

Here's another thing to consider:

Glance back at Defense Opening Statement chart and notice all four Angles are mutable.

Mutable = changeable, flexible, able to go this way or that.

That gives me the impression Defense will surely twist & turn and fine-tune (refine, adjust) their 'story' to their advantage all the way to closing argument --- a confirmation of the chart for the official opening of this trial. We posted the second opening chart --- that of the Prosecution Opening Statement. If we had posted the first chart, cast for the time Judge Belvin Perry officially called the court to order, you would observe that the first two charts reflect the same angle configuration: cardinal across the ASCENDANT/ DESCENDANT and mutable across the MIDHEAVEN/IC.

This suggests, as I indicated previously, a fast & furious start (cardinal) and many, many changes, twists & turns before coming to conclusion.

There is no doubt Defense will do anything and everything in its power as this trial continues to get at least one of those Jurors to drink the kool-aid.


Thanks,
Soulscape

 

[katydid23]

Funny this. "Jose" 29:46 Leo (12th house) opposes the Moon 2:12 Pisces (6th house).

Notice that in the Defense chart "Jose" has found that Leo spot. Regulus the Royal Star. Beware! If you abuse this position, be prepared to fall from grace.
================================================Paulette==

Oh, I just now put this together. Thanks. So we can find Jose hanging in the 12th of the Defense Opening chart.

12th house contains " persons of doubtful character, crooks or tricksters." [ from Ebertin ]

And the only other thing that is @ 29 degrees is HADES @ 29 Gemini, which is sextiling. So apparently we can see where he is getting his help and support from.:angel:

 

[Leomoon80]

Katydid: (snip from post)

Thank you for pointing out the Weeping Sisters. I don't usually work with the fixed stars that much so I overlooked that. Doesn't the Prosecution run into some of the same problems then since they have the Sun @ 3 Gemini as well?

As for the Sun squaring the Asc/Desx, I have usually seen that as a part of what comes with having a Sun in the tenth conjunct the MC. I see it as a positive thing quite often and very powerful. Can it be seen also as a strong competitor who never gives in ?

My take is that the Moon rules the Chart for the Prosecution's Opening Statement and therefore the lead indicator of the chart . Moon found in the 9th the house which is naturally ruled by Jupiter or the Law. The Prosecution (i.e. Moon) in this chart is conjunct Neptune here, very closely, in Pisces and attempts to present as it's case a debunking or undermining (Neptune) that which will be presented by the Defense (Mercury the ruler of Defense chart and found also in the 9th)

I would agree with your premise that the 10th is a very strong position for any planet to reside, and yes, a strong competitor, but the POF in the 10th in Aries, seems to favor the Prosectution's argument, for the locale is better situated here then that of the defense's rather severely maligned POF vibration. Caveat perhaps that square to the ASC.

It's a shame Tuba's not around because I'd be very interested in knowing what she sees regarding the Part of Fortune squaring the ASC? This can prove to be the Achilles heel and it's interesting to note that the ASC rises, in the same degree that is conjunct the Star "Alhena" in the Twins, or the left foot of Pollux and is said to be of the nature of Jupiter and Venus (lucky) . Yet I worry about the square from the POF to the ASC. when we speak of the luck or charm of same.
That is what I mean about the Achilles heel for this chart.


Although the POF also opposes Saturn in the 4th, and squares Pluto in the 6th and seems to be talking about the case at hand, (woe, and bringing to justice the defendent for Pluto and Saturn seem quite well placed for the task at hand ) -

it does seem that this is saying the road may not be as simple or easy as they would like towards the end result because of that square to the ASC.

They may not get exactly what they wished for, but with Hades in the 29th degree in the 12th house, it appears, that no one is going anywhere anytime soon other then prison. For the 12th is the traditional house of exile and prisons.

******
All in all comparing the two, I'd say the Prosecution's delivery was more favorable of the two charts because the Moon overall which rules this chart as the Rising sign Ruler, has the upper hand aspect- wise to the other chart.

The Defense chart however, also has excellent positioning of Mercury, other then the quincunx to Saturn, which doesn't bode well for the defense. However, the creativity shows with the Quintile Moon to Mercury, so I think you are correct, there will be formidable bouts here, of competitorship for the jury's favoring one over the other.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Did anyone else notice that ICA is trying to seduce at least one guy on that jury if not all? Can someone please tell me if they see any of the men on the jury buying into her damsel in distress defense, or becoming infatuated with her based on the jury charts?

I do remember during jury selection how she appeared to be flirting with one guy in particular. Many people posted about it in the thread. I don't remember if he was eventually chosen, but I do know he was called back. :waitasec:


For the astrologers:
I saw in other astrology groups a natal chart for Casey using birth time 3:10pm, Warren, Ohio. I've asked several times where they got the information, but no one has responded to me. The time would give her a Leo Ascendant. Would that fit?

I noticed Leomoon mentioned a Kite formation in Casey's chart. Without an exact time, how would one know she has a Kite? The point would be the Moon, and without the exact time, we can't pinpoint where her Moon is situated. An evening birth time would not give her a Kite. :waitasec:

The trial is wearing me down, I can no longer think. hwow:

 

[Extrasuper]

Our Astrologers are the best of the best. Thanks to you all.....

 

[Leomoon80]

CA Natal: (checking various random times for the Moon in Cancer on her birthday)


Moon in Cancer at Noon on her birthday CST = 10°38'
Moon in Cancer at 1AM that same day = 05°
Moon in Cancer at 8PM that same day =14°

Moon more then likely (probability quotient) within orb of a Quincunx to Saturn


(

Bringing forward this older post a few pages back, to show the questioner, (Zoe B.) the way I look at the KITE in Casey A.'s natal chart, seeing Neptune at the Apex of this KITE, using the probability (mathematical odds in a 24 hr. day or frame) that she indeed has a KITE:

REF:

I noticed Leomoon mentioned a Kite formation in Casey's chart. Without an exact time, how would one know she has a Kite? The point would be the Moon, and without the exact time, we can't pinpoint where her Moon is situated. An evening birth time would not give her a Kite.

IF we use a 1AM birthtime with Ohio as the birthplace, and set the orb value on astro.com to 80% which is the average by and far, IMO. we come to a location for the Moon at 4.44CANCER

IF we use a 3:30PM same day: (*same paramaters) = Moon 11.49CANCER

IF we use 8:30PM same evening Moon - 14.22CANCER

IF we use 11:30PM same evening Moon - 15°Cancer wider but within the
80% orb value that I used (using the computer at astro.com acct with set orbs)

Hope this suffices

depending upon the time of day born, the Kite varies but within the 80% orb value I use

BTW: Within the astrology community, there exist arguments or differences regarding 'orbs' (tight or wide) I use the astro.com for quick access to charts I save and they (the owner has suggested that he and Liz Greene agree) and use the 100% as a default value setting over there on their site , thus, I tighten it down to the average used there by most.
I see Astrology as an Art whereas, in my art I use my parameters and my own tools just as others I would think use their own in their art.
And in this particular case Chart, I've opted for the "Probability Quotient" of a 24 hr. Timeframe for a Day and the Moon's movement during that particular day, so perhaps it's the orb value one uses, that doesn't allow them a nighttime Kite? I simply don't know as everyone does their charts.

caveat: this is for CST Time or Ohio, where I think she was born

Note added: I think she was more then likely born early in the morning, for her Fantasy Life is so very strong, and Moon in the earlier hours, gives her an extremely "tight" KITE, with Neptune, extreme. So it will be great to eventually have her tob, which I'm sure over the years, will be released as often people do write books down the line. Seems so anyway.

 

[Nonnie]

Leomoon, I hope it's ok to ask this question which concerns me about the testimony that the jury heard about the prisoner being questioned at universal without miranda being given first.

Is there anyway the charts can tell if upon conviction for murder one, the prisoner could have the conviction overturned on appeal?

 

[Leomoon80]

Leomoon, I hope it's ok to ask this question which concerns me about the testimony that the jury heard about the prisoner being questioned at universal without miranda being given first.

Is there anyway the charts can tell if upon conviction for murder one, the prisoner could have the conviction overturned on appeal?

Hi Nonnie:

I really don't know if there is. I rather doubt it, because it's such a broad question really in relation to astrology.

Perhaps the others may have an opinion on this one, I'm simply at a loss, and wish I could help you.

I do agree with the others who mentioned that the "Opening Statements" of both the State and Defense are rather competetive in the 10th house of Public Status.

Let's see if someone else has an answer to your question.:rocker:

 

[Soulscape]

Leomoon, I hope it's ok to ask this question which concerns me about the testimony that the jury heard about the prisoner being questioned at universal without miranda being given first.

Is there anyway the charts can tell if upon conviction for murder one, the prisoner could have the conviction overturned on appeal?

Nonnie, your question is complicated and based on hypotheticals. First, the conviction of Casey Anthony for Murder One is only one of several possible jury verdicts. Second, even if the jury finds Casey Anthony guilty of murder, Defense could move for a mistrial as well as appeal.

Recall the Opening chart for start of this Trial. We showed Prosecution's Opening Statement at 9:12 am on Tuesday, May 24, 2011, and HHBP called the proceedings to order a few minutes before that time (9:03 - 9:04 am).

The chart(s) produced both showed cardinal signs across the ASCENDANT/DESCENDANT and mutable signs across the MIDHEAVEN/IC. As I have stated previously, this suggests the trial starts out "fast & furious" with plenty of action (cardinal) but undergoes many, many "twists & turns," and changes of direction before conclusion (mutable).

The outcome of this trial is ultimately in the hands of 12 individuals --- the Jurors --- each of whom have "free will," and it will only take one of them to hang the Jury / cause a mistrial.

I am not stating that this trial will end in a hung Jury and/or Mistrial, but I would be remiss not to point out that is certainly a possibility.





The Jury Verdict is symbolized by JUPITER, traditional ruler of Pisces, found on the 10th House the Judgment in the Opening charts. Note also the sign Pisces spans all of the 9th House of Jurors excepting the opening (cuspal) degrees, strongly linking the Jurors with the Verdict/ Judgment.

This Jury is ruled by SATURN (traditional ruler of Aquarius 9th House cusp) and co-ruled by URANUS (modern ruler of Aquarius) and further co-ruled by JUPITER because of Pisces' strong presence within the 9th House of the Jury.

SATURN is Retrograde, suggesting the Jurors will "go over & over" the testimonies and will "play by the rules," particularly with SATURN in Libra, a sign associated with the Law/ legal matters. Additionally, this past Saturday morning 6/4/2011, JUPITER entered Taurus, a most fixed, slow and deliberate sign. This Jury will (a) play by the rulebook (Saturn), and (b) not snap to conclusions (Jupiter in Taurus). They will mull over each and every "fact" presented and take their time (Saturn Retrograde).

Perhaps most importantly, the Jurors' verdict is completely unpredictable because unpredictable URANUS, co-Lord House 9 the Jurors, at 03 Aries is the most elevated planet, as well as within the 10th House of Verdict/Judgment, closely conjunct the MIDHEAVEN (what comes before the Public Eye).

Again, note well: the mutable signs on the MIDHEAVEN/IC axis of the Opening chart(s) are a powerful indicator that we all best hold onto our seats because "anything goes" and, with Jurors partially symbolized by unpredictable co-Lord URANUS, what finally shakes down is simply unknowable at this point.

Thanks,
Soulscape

 

[FifthEssence]

bringing this forward for your reference.

 

[Paulette]

Please, do we have JB particulars or astro chart? Thanks - just don't know where to look for it in the threads.