Forensic linguistics as investigative tool on RN

Do you accept forensic linguists as defined below as a valid investigation tool

  • Im IDI forensic linguistics which does not agree with RDI is not science

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6
I was asking why you was so into this..Trying to understand your point of view...


IF PR wrote the RN, every one knows this automatically implies RDI.
All alleged IDI evidence like DNA has to be interpreted in a light favorable to RDI.

If PR nor JR wrote the RN, everyone knows this automatically implies IDI.
All alleged RDI evidence like PR calling her friends over despite the RN's warning has to be interpreted in a light favorable to IDI.

SInce the R's did not write the RN, that leaves us with IDI. This is consistent w/ DNA and unknown fibers and unsourced items.

JB was killed by an intruder that night.
 
Too bad we won't see how this investigative tool works in a courtroom,there is no intruder,there will be no charges.This case will stay cold.For good.

imo
 
McM was called in. He analyzed the note and found that the mother had dictated the note and the girl had written the dictation down under duress. The way the program was presented, it seemed like McM was using psycholinguistics. Since I didn't know anything else about the man, my first thought was "wow, why don't they bring THIS guy in to analyze the note? They kind of threw the baby out with the bathwater when they dumped Foster." .

I am not saying it has little value- I am saying in THIS case, it has little value to ME. .



Too bad we won't see how this investigative tool works in a courtroom,there is no intruder,there will be no charges.This case will stay cold.For good.

imo

"You want answers. I think I'm entitled. You want answers? I want to know the truth. You can't handle the truth."
 
IF PR wrote the RN, every one knows this automatically implies RDI.
All alleged IDI evidence like DNA has to be interpreted in a light favorable to RDI.

If PR nor JR wrote the RN, everyone knows this automatically implies IDI.
All alleged RDI evidence like PR calling her friends over despite the RN's warning has to be interpreted in a light favorable to IDI.

SInce the R's did not write the RN, that leaves us with IDI. This is consistent w/ DNA and unknown fibers and unsourced items.

JB was killed by an intruder that night.


Thanks for adding more,that's helps understanding alittle bit more...
 
I haven't voted because I have massively mixed feelings. I love the idea of forensic linguistics and, like most JBR case students, have looked at the known writings of the principals in the case and drawn parallels. I also love the idea of scholarship and science and people deciphering puzzles. The guys who discovered how the red hats ended up on the statues on Easter Island this week or the entire replacement of hip joints with stem cells this week are things that gladden my heart. The problem with forensic linguistics, is that, however scholarly people like Foster may be, 'forensic' implies a science, and 'linguistics'* implies an art and whether that oxymoron is compatible with anything that will ever be admissible, or decisive, in court simply has to be questionable.

Another issue is that forensic linguistics have to work in a vacuum if the independence and impartiality of the study are to be maintained. You can't take any extrinsic evidence into account if you are being truly impartial. In this case, though, ignoring the fact that the RN was written in the Ramsey house on Ramsey paper with a Ramsey pen by someone who had obviously spent some time in the house is tantamount to being negligent. But, if you take account of these facts, then you aren't being wholly neutral.

So, I'm going to have to say that I find the area endlessly fascinating and I love discussing it, but I wouldn't hang a flea on the evidence of forensic linguistics. I would use it as an investigative tool, though.

* The study of linguistics combines the uselessness of the arts with the boringness of the sciences. Not sure who said that but I like it.

** Just had a glass of fizz to celebrate husband's new job and it has gone straight to my head so apologies for writing style being even more confusing than usual.


ETA: Hunter allowing Foster's reputation to be so damaged was one of the nastier aspects of this case. As a prosecutor, you need the credibility of people like Foster to remain intact for future investigations. It was utterly selfish of AH to allow Foster to be denigrated as he was.
 
IF PR wrote the RN, every one knows this automatically implies RDI.
All alleged IDI evidence like DNA has to be interpreted in a light favorable to RDI.

If PR nor JR wrote the RN, everyone knows this automatically implies IDI.
All alleged RDI evidence like PR calling her friends over despite the RN's warning has to be interpreted in a light favorable to IDI.

SInce the R's did not write the RN, that leaves us with IDI. This is consistent w/ DNA and unknown fibers and unsourced items.

JB was killed by an intruder that night.


But:

a)This could have been with Ramsey complicity which is consistent with Ramsey fibres found in JBR's genital area and on various murder scene items and b) I'm not aware of anyone having excluded a PR/JR joint effort.


The problem of course, is that neither Foster or MacMenamin knew Patsy or John or had seen a large enough sample of their writing to make a decision either way. I've said it before and I'll say it again: graduating with the honours she did, you'd have to assume that Patsy could pit her wits against most people.
 
But:

a)This could have been with Ramsey complicity which is consistent with Ramsey fibres found in JBR's genital area and on various murder scene items and b) I'm not aware of anyone having excluded a PR/JR joint effort.


The problem of course, is that neither Foster or MacMenamin knew Patsy or John or had seen a large enough sample of their writing to make a decision either way. I've said it before and I'll say it again: graduating with the honours she did, you'd have to assume that Patsy could pit her wits against most people.

If PR did write it w/JR dictating, her stylistic choices as to whether to write pickup, pick up, pick-up would still show up.

Foster got other problems in other cases.
 
And are you 100% sure that Gerald R. McMenamin didn't have problems also in other cases just asking here....Cause you make it sound like he didn't...And with Tom Miller how many cases did he have problems with must not been many...
 
Why are you trying to sell this guy is because he says PR didn't write the RN cause one against others than says she did...Or the way he does it...Cause in the end if anyone wanted to he could be knocked down like the others....

Ravyn, remember that little talk we had a few weeks ago? You put it better than I did!

"One against others that says she did." How many have we got, anyway. 10? 12? I know it's somewhere in that neighborhood.
 
SInce the R's did not write the RN, that leaves us with IDI. This is consistent w/ DNA and unknown fibers and unsourced items.

JB was killed by an intruder that night.

You know, HOTYH often gets after me for posting opinion as fact. Well, that's a door that swings both ways...
 
You know, HOTYH often gets after me for posting opinion as fact. Well, that's a door that swings both ways...

You're either with me, or you're my enemy. Only an RDI SITH TEAM (RDIST) deals in absolutes.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again: graduating with the honours she did, you'd have to assume that Patsy could pit her wits against most people.

That's exactly what Dr. Steven Pitt said!
 
If PR did write it w/JR dictating, her stylistic choices as to whether to write pickup, pick up, pick-up would still show up.

Well, if that's true, then wouldn't it also be true in the case I was talking about?
 
And are you 100% sure that Gerald R. McMenamin didn't have problems also in other cases just asking here....Cause you make it sound like he didn't

Yeah, I'm kind of curious about that myself.

...And with Tom Miller how many cases did he have problems with must not been many...

IDI's aren't too willing to touch that one.
 
Well, if that's true, then wouldn't it also be true in the case I was talking about?

I do think this question is worth asking Mysteri to ask McM. Any other questions?

I wish she were here right now. I could use her help.
 
Yeah, I'm kind of curious about that myself.



IDI's aren't too willing to touch that one.

Mysteri if I recall addressed that -- if the R's felt Tom said something defamatory and if their attorneys advised them to file suit

wiki has some material on defamation lawsuits leveled against foster

Ramsey murder case

In 1997, Foster became involved in the investigation of JonBenét Ramsey's murder, a case in which a ransom note played a significant role. At one point he apparently believed that an Internet poster who posed as the killer using the alias "jameson" was JonBenet's half-brother, unaware that Jameson had already been identified by law enforcement as a North Carolina housewife, and dismissed as a "code six wingnut" by the FBI. Believing he had solved the mystery, that jameson was John Andrew and that John Andrew was the killer, Foster wrote privately to JonBenet's parents to offer his services in exonerating them of suspicion. A document purporting to be this letter has been published, but Foster declines to acknowledge it and is reticent about his involvement in the case. In a review of Foster's book Author Unknown, Adam Liptak tweaked him by using a textual analysis argument to conclude that Foster was in fact the author of that document.

His emails and letter to Patsy and John Ramsey proclaiming their innocence were verified carefully before they were made public. Also available to participants in the investigation are tapes of telephone conversations that prove Foster did, indeed, get very involved, not only clearing the Ramseys as he accused jameson, but changing sides later when he was working for the Boulder Police, working to help guide the Grand Jury to indict Patsy for the murder of her daughter.

Foster was afterwards hired by Boulder police to conduct analysis of the ransom note, and in this context he came to re-examine Patsy's involvement. He cited her habit of creating acronyms (the note was signed with the mysterious acronym SBTC) and said that she changed a number of habits in her handwriting after being shown a copy of the note. In a book about the investigation, the lead detective wrote that Foster had told him his conclusion that the ransom note had been written by Patsy. In the end, that detective, Steve Thomas, was sued for the content of his book and declined the opportunity to defend same in court.[citation needed]

[edit] Anthrax case

Foster returned to advise the FBI during the investigation of the 2001 anthrax attacks. He later wrote an article for Vanity Fair about his investigation of Steven Hatfill, a virologist who had been labeled a "person of interest" by Attorney General John Ashcroft. In an October 2003 article for Vanity Fair, Foster tried to match up Hatfill's travels with the postmarks on the anthrax letters, and analyzed old interviews and an unpublished novel by Hatfill about a bioterror attack on the United States. Hatfill was identified as a possible culprit. The Reader's Digest published a condensed version of the article in December 2003.

Hatfill subsequently sued Donald Foster, Condé Nast Publications, Vassar College, and The Reader's Digest Association, seeking $10 million in damages, claiming defamation. The case was settled. Donald Foster ceased any public discussion of the case.
 
You're either with me, or you're my enemy. Only an RDI SITH TEAM (RDIST) deals in absolutes.


ah, voynich.
I love you more and more as each day passes.

Is you determination absolute.

You're our team expert on McM and forensic linguistics.
Rather than presenting McM conclusions as the absolute, could you consider any means by which a 400 word essay could be construsted that would not have many traces of the writer's natural patterns of speech?

How could you construct a 400 word essay that does not resemble your normal writing style?
Could you use another's written words, for the template from which to make alterations.
If you wrote mimicking the speech pattern of another would that suffice.
If you deconstructed and shuffled your sentences within the 400 words, could that be accomplished?
Could we take a 400 word sample from a well written essay and deconstruct that to the point where it is unrecognizable using McM?
Would a sample of free verse be distinguishable from someone's personal correspondace?

Small sample size is a consideration that applies to McM analysis.
 

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