France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #2

[FindHG]

Yes seems they don't have to have passports, but some do have purchase them clearly. Maybe be if you are a jihadist it confers some extra credibility to ensure you get through? ( ie there must be an advantage to the $2K spend on one.)

As for Greece and speed of re-location - I was only suggesting that presumably a computerised system is used so that anyone with a passport or anyone who is given papers is logged into a database which is accessible to the next country of passage as they make their way through Europe. Therefore, it seems logical that the computer system would alert to the effect "This person has already entered twice from Syria" etc.

As for refugees I am just as concerned as all of you on here, but I am also mindful that my government and the previous one- who I supported at the time- had some part to play in the de-stabilisation of this area.

No one can, it seems can stop or has a willingness to stop the traffickers and boat owners of Turkey from setting sail across to Greece. Why is that?
Yes wouldn't it be easy if a culturally appropriate country such as Turkey said - "Yes we will create some refugee cities" for the next few years so that all the refugees could camp there awaiting the resolution in Syria.....
How long would they be camped there? IDK, I certainly don't have the answers.

Who knows whose passports they were burning, besides? That they released videos of their acolytes burning passports, shown in MSM, may say something, some twisted youthful validation imagery to attract recruits and also to solidify commitment of the new jihadis.

 

[cottonweaver]

Re Palestinian vs Syrian refugees in Jordan. I will ask my friends, who are Jordanian about this.

:wagon::welcome6:

Your first post Bohemian - welcome to WS - on behalf of all the other posters on this forum

OOPS!!! I mis-read you 1 blog entry as your first post - but there's no point deleting my welcome!

 

[steelman]

I don't understand the focus on passports. I thought they didn't have to have ANY paperwork showing national origin seeing as how they are refugees? I read passports and other identity papers primarily from citizens of various peaceful countries were littering the fields around the check points. They may be carrying a new smart phone to stay in contact with their families back home but due to the nature of war passports and paperwork are not required.

As far as Greece is concerned.... I can see them shuffling the refugees through and OUT of the country as fast as possible. Why should they house/feed them? Germany invited them and caused the migration so perhaps they believe Germany can deal with the problem and the duplicate passports.

I'm sure ISIS can print their own passports.

Pristine, colorful and laminated, your passport will come with a contoured carry case available in many different colors designed for those many different occasions in life. Whether it's a business meeting, a nice quiet dinner, or a night of dancing at the local nightclub, everyone will be able to flash their fashionable ISIS passport with confidence and pride.

Only persons who have those kinds of passports will be admitted into the U.S. for relocation. It's obvious they spent the time and money required to follow proper procedures.

_____________________________________________________




Sound ridiculous ? Don't be surprised if it is at the top of the "vetting" requirements for acceptable applicants.

 

[ZaZara]

I don't understand the focus on passports. I thought they didn't have to have ANY paperwork showing national origin seeing as how they are refugees? I read passports and other identity papers primarily from citizens of various peaceful countries were littering the fields around the check points. They may be carrying a new smart phone to stay in contact with their families back home but due to the nature of war passports and paperwork are not required.

As far as Greece is concerned.... I can see them shuffling the refugees through and OUT of the country as fast as possible. Why should they house/feed them? Germany invited them and caused the migration so perhaps they believe Germany can deal with the problem and the duplicate passports.

BBM

Respectfully disagree.

Paspports ARE required no matter what, but immigrants throw them away once they are in Greece (Schengen area) and try to present themselves as Syrians. For border control, or what is left of it, it is impossible to determine if this is true.

A (real) passport cuts both ways. It is proof of identity but it also may reflect your history of movements. Many do not want to let authorities know that they come from safe areas like Turkey. Hence they throw away their documents.

There are shelters in Holland where only 15% of the 'refugees' are actually Syrian. The remaining 85% come from various countries, among them Albania and Macedonia. No one from those coutries would ever qualify for asylum in Holland. The numbers clog up the system and the Syrians are desperate. Many men fled to safety in the hope that they could bring their family over soon. (This used to be the procedure until Angela Merkel in Germany invited everybody in.) Now the waiting times have gone up from weeks to months or even a year and their families are left behind without support or cover. Some fathers even want to return, but this may also cause bureaucratic problems.

Mind you, this is not about the army of young single men that is entering Europe.

 

[cottonweaver]

And I tell you..
I would not run and leave my family behind so if that makes the Syrian men bad ok

That's what I thought too when I saw the first boats arrive in Greece

This tells you a little about life in Raqqa under ISIS, not the whole of Syria - but is this what the young men are fleeing from ?

Isis has banned men born after 1992 from leaving the city for regime areas, to take exams, collect salaries or anything else. That means that no one can go any more, because who wants to flee to Turkey without their wife or daughters and sons?

Also, people don’t want to leave because as soon as anyone goes, Isis seizes their house. It has confiscated many homes from Christians, members of the Free Syrian Army and any activists it has caught.

Before Isis took over, the population of Raqqa was 1 million; now it is 400,000. But people say, ‘Where will I go? What will I do? I have no money to live in Turkey. And they will take my house.’ So they just stay here, waiting for an unknown tomorrow.
The city has become a prison for women under 45. The regime says they cannot leave because they may be raped in areas held by Isis or other rebel groups, but most people inside Raqqa think that it is because they are desperate for more wives for the fighters.
Isis doesn’t want people to work, it just wants them to suffer, so that the men will join the group, and the women will marry Isis fighters.
It is not just money that they are short of. They lack blood for fighters injured in air strikes or on the frontline. People don’t want to donate, so they compel them. Anyone with business at the Islamic court is told first to go to a certain hospital, donate a pint of blood, then return with the receipt. Only then will the case be processed.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/21/islamic-state-capital-raqqa-syria-isis

This next one demonstrates just how complex the situation is, Four years after the first uprising against President Bashar al-Assad, we speak to people from across the divide, from rebel officers to regime supporters-
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/war-in-syria-how-my-life-has-changed

 

[cottonweaver]

France play England tonight, football at Wembley. For once, England fans may cheer on the opposition team.

Defiant football fans have snapped up an extra 10,000 tickets for tonight's near sell-out game at Wembley stadium in a poignant display of mass solidarity against Friday's terror attacks in Paris.
Around 80,000 French and English supporters will be joined by Prince William and David Cameron as they watch the two nations go head-to-head, just days after the atrocities in the French capital, following a surge in sales over the past four days.
The French international footballer (pictured), who counts Chelsea and Arsenal as his former teams, was playing in a match against Germany when suicide bombers blew themselves up outside the Stade de France, His cousin Asta Diakite (pictured) was among those killed in Friday night's atrocities. The footballer has since paid an emotional tribute to his beloved relative .
In a visible display of unity, the Wembley Arch will be lit up in the red, white and blue colours of the French flag, while the French motto 'Liberte, Egalite and Fraternite' - the cry used by revolutionists meaning freedom, equality and fraternity - will be emblazoned in lights outside the stadium.
The words to La Marseillaise, the national anthem, will also be projected across screens while material - which will form the French Tricolore when fans hold them during the anthem - will be placed on the seats in the England end of the stadium

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rance-guarded-armed-police.html#ixzz3rkaFivTF

 

[ZaZara]

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/webwe...aet-wo-sich-IS-Sympathisanten-verstecken.html

Twitter shows where the fans of ISIS are located.


To the security services in Western Europe Twitter lacks credibility as a source of information. Nevertheless an easy analysis of the messages sent shows immediately where most ISIS sympathizers are located. One third of all tweets sent on ISIS from Belgium have a positive tone.

That was already apparent from figures that The Guardian published late 2014. It is no surprise that Belgium is a 'haven' for ISIS supporters. In Qatar, half of all tweets about IS positive and Pakistan the number is 35 percent. Support in tweets from Syria stands at 8%.

 

[cottonweaver]

BBM

Respectfully disagree.

Paspports ARE required no matter what, but immigrants throw them away once they are in Greece (Schengen area) and try to present themselves as Syrians. For border control, or what is left of it, it is impossible to determine if this is true.

A (real) passport cuts both ways. It is proof of identity but it also may reflect your history of movements. Many do not want to let authorities know that they come from safe areas like Turkey. Hence they throw away their documents.

There are shelters in Holland where only 15% of the 'refugees' are actually Syrian. The remaining 85% come from various countries, among them Albania and Macedonia. No one from those coutries would ever qualify for asylum in Holland. The numbers clog up the system and the Syrians are desperate. Many men fled to safety in the hope that they could bring their family over soon. (This used to be the procedure until Angela Merkel in Germany invited everybody in.) Now the waiting times have gone up from weeks to months or even a year and their families are left behind without support or cover. Some fathers even want to return, but this may also cause bureaucratic problems.

Mind you, this is not about the army of young single men that is entering Europe.

Yes I read a Turkish passport forger make the wry comment "Everyone wants to be Syrian now."
This was from the link I provided yesterday about fake passports.

 

[cottonweaver]

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/webwe...aet-wo-sich-IS-Sympathisanten-verstecken.html

Twitter shows where the fans of ISIS are located.


To the security services in Western Europe Twitter lacks credibility as a source of information. Nevertheless an easy analysis of the messages sent shows immediately where most ISIS sympathizers are located. One third of all tweets sent on ISIS from Belgium have a positive tone.

That was already apparent from figures that The Guardian published late 2014. It is no surprise that Belgium is a 'haven' for ISIS supporters. In Qatar, half of all tweets about IS positive and Pakistan the number is 35 percent. Support in tweets from Syria stands at 8%.


]

Yes Qataris are big funders. And there is US & European countries in the top ten. UK figures are no surprise to me.

( Mind you, when we in the UK were being bombed by the IRA for 25+ years, we saw similar support from outside countries who helped to fund them.)

 

[EllieBee]

Very good post.

I told Mr. Bee this weekend that I don't believe killing off the leaders of these terrorist groups is effective. They are like the Hydra; cut off one head, two more grow in its place.

I also think that while it is important to be aware, when we alter our lives and habits in drastic ways, reacting out of fear and dread, those who want to hurt us already have.

Frankly, I think the biggest eff you is when we keep on keepin' on and don't resort to panicked measures like the ridiculous airport follies.

Like I posted before, I am not a GWB fan, but I did admire him after 9/11 for his words:

Americans are asking, "What is expected of us?"

I ask you to live your lives and hug your children.

I know many citizens have fears tonight, and I ask you to be calm and resolute, even in the face of a continuing threat.

I ask you to uphold the values of America and remember why so many have come here.

We're in a fight for our principles, and our first responsibility is to live by them. No one should be singled out for unfair treatment or unkind words because of their ethnic background or religious faith.

http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/gw-bush-9-11.htm

I just think that we cannot allow these terrorists to bully us into changing who we are and what we believe and how we treat others.

I think naïveté plays a bigger role in what they can and will do to us, believing we're safe here if we don't allow refugees in. No, the terrorists will find a way. But IMO while people greatly overestimate the threat of terrorism they at the same time kid themselves into thinking "If we just do this one thing we'll be safe." I don't think it's true and I don't think we can let our exaggerated fear dictate what we do and how we treat those in need.

JMO.

 

[FindHG]

Paris attacks investigation: The latest developments for Tuesday
Catherine Shoichet CNN
Updated 5:53 AM ET, Tue November 17, 2015

 

[ZaZara]

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts

BREAKING: 3 people have been arrested near the German city of Aachen in connection to #ParisAttacks - @dwnews

BBM

 

[Trident]

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts

BREAKING: 3 people have been arrested near the German city of Aachen in connection to #ParisAttacks - @dwnews

BBM

Germany? :thinking: :waitasec: Who'd a thunk it?

 

[ZaZara]

Three arrests in Aachen (GERMANY)

FAZ.net
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/terroranschlaege-in-paris-drei-festnahmen-bei-aachen-13917260.html

A special unit of the police arrested three people after the attacks of Paris, near Aachen. The region is considered a stronghold of the Salafists.

After the terrorist attacks of Paris, the police have arrested three suspects in Alsdorf near Aachen on Tuesday. "We have received indications that one of the fugitives in the context of Paris may be staying in our area," a police spokesman said.

The detainees are said be two women and one man. The identities are not yet known, the interrogations are ongoing. The police is currently looking for the 26-year-old Salah Abdeslam, a brother of a suicide bomber from Paris. An international arrest warrant has been issued.

Previously, it was revealed that Salah Abdeslam also temporarily resided in Germany and in Austria in early September. On September 9, he had entered the country together with two men, traveling from Germany into Austria, said the interior ministry in Vienna. At a traffic stop in Oberösterreich he had indicated that he wanted to spend a week's holiday in Austria.

In Germany violent Salafists are nowhere as active as in North Rhine-Westphalia. Here especially the regions apply to Aachen, Bonn, Mönchengladbach, Wuppertal / Solingen and Bochum as strongholds of the Islamists. According to the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution the Salafist scene in NRW alone comprises approximately 3,000 people.


BBM


Update: according to several sources, the police are still looking for a fourth suspect who allegedly escaped.

 

[Peliman]

New research has shown that a quarter of "jihadis' are recruited through familial connections ( brother, father etc) not through the internet as such


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/jihad-by-family-terrorism-relatives-isis-al-qaeda

Good article and makes a lot of sense. One does have to look at group behavior and cultural connections and maybe a pattern flows. I'd also wonder which mosque the perps seemed to visit and after hours social life.

I don't think it stops there though, I see fear and intimidation being used as in believe in the caliphate or be kafir.

One thing that's been tugging at me was the use of the PS4 or XBox one. I've watched hours of remote teams playing "gears of war" and I can't dismiss the similarity to this whole attack on Paris by a team of well armed commandos. Lets not forget teams can have voice communications while playing another team in a game of COD and the other team cant hear them communicate. I wonder if some recruiting is being done by becoming friendly with other gamers but only to be used as lone wolfs. This goes for PS3's and older gaming systems.

Rambling on here

 

[Trident]

Good article and makes a lot of sense. One does have to look at group behavior and cultural connections and maybe a pattern flows. I'd also wonder which mosque the perps seemed to visit and after hours social life.

I don't think it stops there though, I see fear and intimidation being used as in believe in the caliphate of be kafir.

One thing that's been tugging at me was the use of the PS4 or XBox one. I've watched hours of remote teams playing "gears of war" and I can't dismiss the similarity to this whole attack on Paris by a team of well armed commandos. Lets not forget teams can have voice communications while playing another team in a game of COD and the other team cant hear them communicate. I wonder if some recruiting is being done by becoming friendly with other gamers but only to be used as lone wolfs. This goes for PS3's and older gaming systems.

Rambling on here

Good rambling, it makes a lot if sense to me after watching a grandson playing hour after hour while on the 'phone with his cronies.

 

[cottonweaver]

Good article and makes a lot of sense. One does have to look at group behavior and cultural connections and maybe a pattern flows. I'd also wonder which mosque the perps seemed to visit and after hours social life.

I don't think it stops there though, I see fear and intimidation being used as in believe in the caliphate or be kafir.

One thing that's been tugging at me was the use of the PS4 or XBox one. I've watched hours of remote teams playing "gears of war" and I can't dismiss the similarity to this whole attack on Paris by a team of well armed commandos. Lets not forget teams can have voice communications while playing another team in a game of COD and the other team cant hear them communicate. I wonder if some recruiting is being done by becoming friendly with other gamers but only to be used as lone wolfs. This goes for PS3's and older gaming systems.

Rambling on here

BIB - You're not rambling on , that is related to what the Belgian minister said the day after the attacks - they are using systems like PS4 to communicate with each other without fear of surveillance.

Will try and find the link again

ETA : PS4 encrypted comms link
http://qz.com/550365/belgian-home-affairs-minister-says-isil-communicates-over-playstation-4/

Whatsapp ( California) , Surespot ( Colorado) , Kik (Ontario) , Wikr ( California)- are all favoured as messenger channels by terrorists communicating & planning. Would be interested to hear what state representatives in those places are doing to disable terrorist communication channels, or is it all about the money really?
Plenty of info out there that explains when security services approach these companies for data, the company policy is then to warn the user, the user then skips to another messenger service.

 

[FindHG]

Attacks in Paris
Complete coverage of the shootings across Paris, Europe’s worst terrorist attack in 11 years.
New York Times


French leader seeks U.S. and Russian unity to sharpen Islamic State fight
By Karen DeYoung
November 17 at 7:55 AM

"While France is part of the U.S.-led coalition, Russia has been primarily bombing U.S.-backed opposition forces fighting against Russian-backed Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

As if to buttress Putin’s remarks, Russian jets conducted a series of attacks targeting Raqqa, the de facto Islamic State capital in Syria, where U.S. and French warplanes have also been active."

But Kerry, speaking after meeting with Hollande, seemed to throw cold water on the prospect of an immediate increase in cooperation with Russia to target the militants.



France launches new airstrikes on Syria and anti-terrorism raids at home
By Missy Ryan, Daniela Deane and Brian Murphy November 17 at 6:47 AM

"Cazeneuve said that “the majority of those who were involved in this attack were unknown to our services,” news agencies reported."

“It is not about containing but about destroying that organization,” Hollande said before the members of Parliament stood to sing the national anthem. “They are not out of our reach.”

“Friday’s acts of war were decided and planned in Syria,” he told parliament. “They were organized in Belgium and perpetrated on our soil with French complicity with one specific goal: to sow fear and to divide us.”

“The level of cooperation could not be higher,” he said. “We agreed to exchange more information and I’m convinced that over the course of the next weeks, Daesch will feel greater pressure. They are feeling it today. They felt it yesterday. They felt it in the past weeks. We gained more territory. Daesch has less territory,” Kerry said, referring to the Arabic name for Islamic State.



Terrorists hide plans by 'going dark'
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/16/technology/terrorists-go-dark/index.html


Paris Attacks: Salah Abdeslam's Alleged Getaway Drivers Charged NBCNEWS
by CASSANDRA VINOGRAD, NANCY ING and MAC WILLIAM BISHOP

'Eiffel Tower has been closed again... this is related to current events.'

'The nations capital is now on high alert'

 

[ZaZara]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/...t.co&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=twitter


The Netherlands: Screening and Control of asylum seekers fails.

Screening and ontrol of asylum seekers should be improved ASAP. Now it is unclear who enters our country, and that causes great dangers. A parliamentary majority demands improvements from Secretary of State Dijkhoff (Security and Justice).

In a damning report by the Inspection of Safety and Justice it was revealed that even people with forged papers are allowed to enter the asylum procedure in the Netherlands. Members of Parliament fear that IS fighters will have an easy time pretending to be refugees.


BBM

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Michigan’s delay on Syrian refugees spurs debate

Mark Hicks, The Detroit News 12:25 a.m. EST November 17, 2015

The decision to suspend moving Syrian refugees into Michigan is drawing mixed reactions from Metro Detroiters, opening up debate on the region’s role as a haven for Mideast immigrants.

When Jihad Alharash visits newly resettled Syrian families that his volunteer group works with, he’s reluctant to mention now how others from that region in the world now will face a harder time reaching Michigan or the United States.

“What happened in Paris and France is such a crime. Nobody can even say a word. I mean all of our hearts are broken … but do you blame these poor families who are coming from Syria, do you just close your doors against them?” said Alharash, a doctor involved with the Syrian American Medical Society and newly formed Syrian American Rescue Network...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/2015/11/16/michigan-syrian-refugees-reaction/75908874/