France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[graceholl]

From Twitter

BBC LONDON 94.9 ‏@BBCLondon949
Neighbour of Saad Al Hilli - Jack Saltman - tells @VanessaOnAir he spoke to Saad about a difficult problem when his father died recently...

Could be that a family member hired a hit man to wipe them out because of inheritance issues. Sky News also leading with inheritance headline.

 

[graceholl]

Sky news headline tag

"A French prosecutor says it seems the father shot dead in the Alps was in a dispute with his brother about money."

 

[laurauk1]

One linked article said the father earned 28 Pounds/Hour while they lived in a 1 Million Pound home. Something doesn't add up here unless he had money from other sources. This whole thing is looking more and more like he was targeted and you know, one other poster mentioned about them wanting to have it done in France without the maybe more apt British Police involved and it makes sense. Why not do it where there are few witnesses and it's out somewhere where the police don't have the experience. Good call.

What is up with the other family that they were supposedly camping with? And where is the bike that was on the roof as reported? I can see that they left their belongings at the campsite that day and were going out for a drive but then why were there travel bags in the car? The bikes would have been with them too or not? I'm confused. And why was he driving on that very deserted road? Did he know he was being followed? Crazy case, I find it creepy.

From what I've read, the house had belonged to the mans parents so would have been owned outright more than likely. For those who are not familiar with the area, Surrey is a very wealthy county with expensive house prices. These house prices have shot up dramaticaly in recent years. As an example, my grandparents bought their house for £9000 in the early 1970s. Today it is worth about £450,000 - quite an increase. Likewise my sister's house was bought in 1998 for £80,000 and has been sold for £280,000. With that in mind, this man probably owns his house outright so affording it probably isn't an issue.

In any case, a £28/hour on full time hours would wrk out as a salary of £54,600 before tax. After tax this would be about £38,000 so a very healthy amount of money if you don't have a mortgage or rent to pay. Also as he works freelance, he could be doing more than one job at once and could be paid different amounts for the jobs. I imagine that they are a rather wealthy family.

Regarding the family feud I just can't see it. They seem a respectable family. Feuds happen over money between family members but killing the adults of the family in a violent assault seems extreme. Also apparently the brother lives in Woking which is also in Surrey. Why would he have access to such violent weapons (I know it can happen) and would he risk taken them to France.

Although I have no evidence to suggest it, I still have a hunch that perhaps it could be related to the family ties with Iraq. This is just a hunch though.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

What is up with the other family that they were supposedly camping with? And where is the bike that was on the roof as reported? I can see that they left their belongings at the campsite that day and were going out for a drive but then why were there travel bags in the car? The bikes would have been with them too or not? I'm confused. And why was he driving on that very deserted road? Did he know he was being followed? Crazy case, I find it creepy.

I wonder if they had the bags in the car because they were either forewarned something was going to happen or they spotted someone at the campsite or something similar and decided to just abandon camp?.

Im leaning towards a paid hit but i dont know how professional the gunmen were?.yes there was 2 shots each to the head to the family in the car but with a family cowering in the car i dont think it would be too hard to do.
The cyclist was shot 5 times,so id like to know if the cyclist got a shot to the head as i think a pro would have made sure he was dead with a headshot.

Also why beat the girl up?,i doubt a pro would have unless paid to do so or similar.

I still believe the father saw it coming going by the pic of the car in the car park and the way it looks as though it reversed at speed to its final stopping place..

 

[~n/t~]

From what I've read, the house had belonged to the mans parents so would have been owned outright more than likely. For those who are not familiar with the area, Surrey is a very wealthy county with expensive house prices. These house prices have shot up dramaticaly in recent years. As an example, my grandparents bought their house for £9000 in the early 1970s. Today it is worth about £450,000 - quite an increase. Likewise my sister's house was bought in 1998 for £80,000 and has been sold for £280,000. With that in mind, this man probably owns his house outright so affording it probably isn't an issue.

In any case, a £28/hour on full time hours would wrk out as a salary of £54,600 before tax. After tax this would be about £38,000 so a very healthy amount of money if you don't have a mortgage or rent to pay. Also as he works freelance, he could be doing more than one job at once and could be paid different amounts for the jobs. I imagine that they are a rather wealthy family.

Regarding the family feud I just can't see it. They seem a respectable family. Feuds happen over money between family members but killing the adults of the family in a violent assault seems extreme. Also apparently the brother lives in Woking which is also in Surrey. Why would he have access to such violent weapons (I know it can happen) and would he risk taken them to France.
Although I have no evidence to suggest it, I still have a hunch that perhaps it could be related to the family ties with Iraq. This is just a hunch though.

bbm...he wouldn't need to have access to the weapons and take them across the border if he hired a hitman or hitmen.

This was definitely overkill. Family dispute over inheritance is a possible motive. Money = greed. I've seen families with even less money become totally estranged from each other because of inheritance disputes.

Not saying this is/was the motive in this case but it's starting to look like a possibility.

I don't for one minute believe it was a robbery or car jacking. This was a planned assissination. IMO

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Laurauk1
Heres a link to what happened near me
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17211345
And i know this will sound bad so i apologise now,but people originally born and raised in those countries(even naturalised brits)dont think the same about life as us(think how cold the eastern europeans are in these sort of things),i mean honour and the likes is a BIG deal to them so i have no doubt this could well be over a family fall out..
Again i apologise for the above,sometimes i just cant word what it is id like to say..

 

[ScotsPaddy]

There is a huge market for stolen to order luxury motors across in europe,doesnt matter that they are right hand drive..
Although i dont think was the a case of carjacking in this incident.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

If house was owned outright by the parents what happened after there death?,did house go to father just murdered or was it to be sold and all monies split but deceased decides to buy brothers half but they cant agree on a price?,or similar?.

 

[~n/t~]

There is a huge market for stolen to order luxury motors across in europe,doesnt matter that they are right hand drive..
Although i dont think was the a case of carjacking in this incident.

If it was a carjacking, they wouldn't have shot through the windows and murdered the occupants inside the vehicle. IMO

 

[Sarahlou]

IF his brother got someone to wipe out his family then wow. Life doesn't mean anything to some people.

 

[~n/t~]

If house was owned outright by the parents what happened after there death?,did house go to father just murdered or was it to be sold and all monies split but deceased decides to buy brothers half but they cant agree on a price?,or similar?.

Was the elderly lady with them named by sources as the grandmother of the two little girls on the father's side or mother's side? Has that been revealed?

 

[laurauk1]

The thing about the girl being beaten up, I'm just not sure. Could it be media speculation? I'm not familiar with the French media but guessing as its in France most of the UK press will be getting the info. from there.

I still can't understand the car being locked and the girl being outside it. I wonder if she fled to try and hide or get help. Maybe the father was still alive at that stage and his body slumped on to the lock.

Not sure what age the car was but it could be one which has a button to start it so you don't have to put the key in the ignition. If that was case, could the child have left the car with the keys and locked it knowing her sister was still there to try and protect her. Perhaps this was when the attacker tried to go for her, maybe to get the keys or maybe to stop her running away. Perhaps the French cyclist arrived at this stage,the attacker panicked and shot him before fleeing.

Alternatively perhaps the French cyclist arrived and the child ran towards him for help before someone grabbed her to try and silence her. The french cyclist perhaps tried to protect her and was killed as a result. But this would still leave the question of why were the doors locked. Again, I either think the child locked them or it was just a fluke that one of the victims knocked the lock as they sadly died.

My final theory on the door locking would be that they could be on some kind of timer and perhaps lock after a certain period of time it the engine is left running.

Sorry if this is a bit all over the place - at work and typing this on my iPhone!

 

[~n/t~]

He fled Iraq as a boy, settled in Surrey and was spied on by the Special Branch: The extraordinary life of the engineer victim at the centre of the Alps shooting

• Officers thought to be from Special Branch maintained constant surveillance on the aeronautical engineer and his family in 2003, said neighbour

• Any operation on the family would almost certainly have been backed up by bugging devices within their detached home

• Saad Al-Hilli's apparent family links to Saddam Hussein's ruling Ba'ath party in Iraq may be of significance

more at the link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...raordinary-life-engineer-victim.html?ITO=1490

Holy smokes. I realize this is the Daily Mail but even if half of it is true.....just wow. :what:

 

[laurauk1]

Laurauk1
Heres a link to what happened near me
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17211345
And i know this will sound bad so i apologise now,but people originally born and raised in those countries(even naturalised brits)dont think the same about life as us(think how cold the eastern europeans are in these sort of things),i mean honour and the likes is a BIG deal to them so i have no doubt this could well be over a family fall out..
Again i apologise for the above,sometimes i just cant word what it is id like to say..

I understand what you mean however I also think there is good and bad in every country and sadly I think there would be people born and bred UK citizens who perhaps would think like this as well. I might be naive but I think that the majority of people, regardless of nationality wouldn't kill their own family over this or hire hitmen to do. If anything, from what i understand of Iraqi culture in general, it is quite a family orientated.

I still think it has Iraq links but from beyond the immediate family.

 

[laurauk1]

Was the elderly lady with them named by sources as the grandmother of the two little girls on the father's side or mother's side? Has that been revealed?

I read that his mother had died 10 years ago so presumed her mother.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

If it was a carjacking, they wouldn't have shot through the windows and murdered the occupants inside the vehicle. IMO

I dont think it was a car jacking either.

 

[sherlockh]

I dont think it was a car jacking either.

The more information comes out now, I also have to say it does not look like a car jacking. One witness saw just one man speeding away in a white Peugeot. If it was a family feud then I hope he was driving his own car and the white Peugeot has given him away.

However, Sylvie, an inhabitant of Chevaline, the village nearest the crime scene, told BFMTV she was almost knocked off her bike by a panic-stricken motorist in a white car on the road leading to the forest just after the attack.

“There was a very steep, dangerous bend and a person came round it the other way very, very fast, he was coming straight toward me and only just missed knocking me over," she said.

"He appeared to be in total panic and not in control of his vehicle. A white vehicle, a [Peugeot]. I saw it was a dark-haired man with a black shirt or sweater.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...oting-Police-probing-possible-family-row.html

 

[SuziQ]

The Iranians were in cahoots with Mexican drug gangs in a series of assassination attempts foiled recently.

And then you have the Iranian scientists that are disappearing or ending up dead. And they all died on their way to work. Like in this case, the hits were out in the open and brazen.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2104372,00.html

Like three previous Iranian scientists ambushed on their morning commute, the latest nuclear expert to die on his way to work was a victim of Israel's Mossad, Western intelligence sources tell TIME. Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan, an expert on a phase of uranium enrichment, perished on a Tehran street on Wednesday after an assassin in a passing motorcycle attached a magnetized explosive to the side of his Peugeot 405.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2104372,00.html#ixzz25mv1l4jn

 

[writer7]

I think the older girl probably tried to run out of the car and got pistol-whipped then. (As a kid, I ran in any scary situation, even when running was more dangerous. Just child instinct in my case).

I wonder if any angry family members might have 'turned him in' to the Iranian government? The timing since his father's death would be about right, and his profession does sound as if it could be a cover. I'm not saying he was in any intelligence -- just that it might sound true enough to the Iranian government, which does do hits on scientists working for other governments.

Or he could have really had a cover, etc. I do think it was the Iranians and his family or the Iranian government alone. It sounds professional, and the folks brought in so fast to investigate indicate that the French wondered that for sure.

 

[laurauk1]

I think the older girl probably tried to run out of the car and got pistol-whipped then. (As a kid, I ran in any scary situation, even when running was more dangerous. Just child instinct in my case).

I wonder if any angry family members might have 'turned him in' to the Iranian government? The timing since his father's death would be about right, and his profession does sound as if it could be a cover. I'm not saying he was in any intelligence -- just that it might sound true enough to the Iranian government, which does do hits on scientists working for other governments.

Or he could have really had a cover, etc. I do think it was the Iranians and his family or the Iranian government alone. It sounds professional, and the folks brought in so fast to investigate indicate that the French wondered that for sure.

I think it's worth noting that he's Iraqi and not from Iran. I haven't seen anything to suggest that it would have anything to do with Iran.