GA - 8 dead after shootings at three spas, Atlanta, 16 Mar 2021 *arrest*

[Gibbo214]

Yep!

I've seen this many times.

JMVHO.

I worked in an Asian city for a well respected company (Sony) and we had to fire many men (professionals) who would speak to highly educated asian women who spoke great English, in bar girl English.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Around 6:30 p.m., the Cherokee County Sheriff’s Office released surveillance images of the suspect, who was wearing a black and red shirt and driving a black S.U.V. outside one of the massage parlors.

About 90 minutes later, the sheriff’s office in Crisp County, Ga., about 150 miles south of Atlanta, received information that the suspect was traveling south on Interstate 75. Georgia State Patrol and Crisp County deputies spotted a black 2007 Hyundai Tucson around mile marker 101, the authorities said. A state trooper performed a maneuver, causing the S.U.V. to spin out of control. The driver was arrested without incident.

A 9-millimeter gun was found in his vehicle, the authorities said. Matt Kilgo, a lawyer for Big Woods Goods, a gun shop and shooting range in Canton, Ga., said Mr. Long bought a gun legally from the shop on Tuesday, before the shooting.
What to Know About the Atlanta Spa Shootings

Live Updates: Biden and Harris to Visit Atlanta in Wake of Shootings

 

[Maljako]

Sex addiction is not a recognised addiction or a mental illness. It is frequently self diagnosed by men who cannot or do not want to take responsibility for their bad behaviour and lack of impulse control.

Brain chemistry is more complex than saying "it is an addiction" or "it is not an addiction". Certainly a person masturbating for several hours a day, for example, has a compulsion that interferes with ordinary daily life. That being said, no addiction or compulsion is ever a permission to treat others badly. His warped notion that he had the right to take another person's life cannot begin to be excused with any kind of addiction. Or with anything, period.

The disrespectful way society at large talks of sex workers and even of people forced into sexual slavery and how it contributes to their mistreatment needs to be discussed. The horrible misogynist and racist treament many women of Asian descent face needs to be discussed. I think these can be done while acknowledging that some people are addicted to what sexual pleasure does in their brain. The aftermath of a horrible mass murder is probably not the best context for these discussions, but that seems to be how these topics get (inter)national attention.

 

[Alethea]

Brain chemistry is more complex than saying "it is an addiction" or "it is not an addiction". Certainly a person masturbating for several hours a day, for example, has a compulsion that interferes with ordinary daily life. That being said, no addiction or compulsion is ever a permission to treat others badly. His warped notion that he had the right to take another person's life cannot begin to be excused with any kind of addiction. Or with anything, period.

(I say the following with the caveat that I have no idea the actual reason for this specific crime and it appears racist, sexist, and disordered. I don't think trying to understand the reason or cause for an awful act at all empathizes or excuses it.)

I think it is interesting that people are dismissing a sex addiction. I agree with you completely that there is something wrong if you cannot stop doing an action that brings you pleasure. This is long accepted with alcoholism and the answer in treatment is to be vigilant in never taking the first drink. You choose the first drink, your brain's reaction to the substance contributes to a compulsion to keep using the substance. I don't have a hard time applying the same concept to compulsive masturbation. I think we'll find the same type of dopamine loop.

But just like alcohol or drug addiction does not excuse a criminal act, neither does a sex addiction. You can't shoot your bartender or dealer because you relapsed. You don't get off from a DWI or DUI because you have an addiction. You are rightfully punished for breaking the law no matter your reason or excuse.

 

[dotr]

March 18 2021
The Atlanta Shooter Killed Six Women of Asian Descent. Isn’t That A Hate Crime?
''The shooter walked into three separate parlors that he reportedly frequented, intending to kill the Asian women that worked there. How, many wondered, could this not be deemed a hate crime?

The debate over what legally constitutes a hate crime—and the barriers to prosecuting them—stretches back decades. So does confusion about hate-crime laws by the American public. In order to charge an individual with a hate crime, law enforcement must be able to prove that an offense was specifically motivated by hate or bias. But authorities aren’t mind-readers; even if the victims all belong to a certain race, religion, sexual orientation or other protected class, prosecutors need to be able to present evidence of this bias in the attacker’s previous actions, words or affiliations.''

 

[dotr]

These are some of the victims of the Atlanta-area massage parlor shootings - CNN
''The victims of the Cherokee County shooting were identified as Delaina Yaun, 33, of Acworth; Paul Andre Michels, 54, of Atlanta; Xiaojie Tan, 49, of Kennesaw; and Daoyou Feng, 44. One man, Elcias Hernandez-Ortiz, survived.
Four other victims at the spas in Atlanta were identified Friday by the Fulton County Medical Examiner as Soon C. Park, 74; Hyun J. Grant, 51; Suncha Kim, 69; and Yong A. Yue, 63.''

Delaina Ashley Yaun.
''Toole described her sister as a family-oriented person. Recently married, she was the mother of two children, including an 8-month-old daughter.
"Her family came first. Everything was her family," Toole said. "She had such a wonderful, happy, upbeat personality."

Elcias Hernandez-Ortiz
''Elcias Hernandez-Ortiz was also shot at Young's Asian Massage in Acworth -- the sole survivor of Tuesday's shootings.
Hernandez-Ortiz was shot in the forehead and the bullet traveled down into his lungs and into his stomach, his wife, Flora Gonzalez Gomez, said on https://www..com/f/help-elcias-hernandez-ortiz-cover-medical-bills. He is now in the intensive care unit in the hospital, she said.''

 

[sds71]

https://www.fultoncountyga.gov/news/2021/03/18/statement-from-the-medical-examiners-office

 

[Inthedetails]

These are some of the victims of the Atlanta-area massage parlor shootings - CNN
''The victims of the Cherokee County shooting were identified as Delaina Yaun, 33, of Acworth; Paul Andre Michels, 54, of Atlanta; Xiaojie Tan, 49, of Kennesaw; and Daoyou Feng, 44. One man, Elcias Hernandez-Ortiz, survived.
Four other victims at the spas in Atlanta were identified Friday by the Fulton County Medical Examiner as Soon C. Park, 74; Hyun J. Grant, 51; Suncha Kim, 69; and Yong A. Yue, 63.''

Delaina Ashley Yaun.
''Toole described her sister as a family-oriented person. Recently married, she was the mother of two children, including an 8-month-old daughter.
"Her family came first. Everything was her family," Toole said. "She had such a wonderful, happy, upbeat personality."

Elcias Hernandez-Ortiz
''Elcias Hernandez-Ortiz was also shot at Young's Asian Massage in Acworth -- the sole survivor of Tuesday's shootings.
Hernandez-Ortiz was shot in the forehead and the bullet traveled down into his lungs and into his stomach, his wife, Flora Gonzalez Gomez, said on ********. He is now in the intensive care unit in the hospital, she said.''

Noticing that the women killed in Atlanta were ages 51, 63, 69, and 74.

I expected perhaps one "mature" woman to be at the spa perhaps serving as the boss. But four? I admit I'm surprised. Also interesting that it seems like it took authorities awhile to reach their families in Korea which is why it took until today for the names to be released. so does that mean they don't have family here in the States?

This is all making me sad.

jmo

 

[MimosaMornings]

Noticing that the women killed in Atlanta were ages 51, 63, 69, and 74.

I expected perhaps one "mature" woman to be at the spa perhaps serving as the boss. But four? I admit I'm surprised. Also interesting that it seems like it took authorities awhile to reach their families in Korea which is why it took until today for the names to be released. so does that mean they don't have family here in the States?

This is all making me sad.

jmo

“All four victims were older, with two in their 70s, one in her 60s and another in her 50s, according to members of the local Korean American community and workers at nearby businesses. Three worked at Gold Spa and the fourth at the Aromatherapy Spa across the street.

One of the Gold Spa employees was identified by her son as Hyun Jung Grant. Randy Park told the Daily Beast that he had been at the family’s townhome in Duluth, Ga., a northern suburb of Atlanta that is a hub for Koreans in the region, when he received a call from the daughter of a witness who survived the attack. Park, 23, said that for much of his life he did not know what his mother did for work.

“She would always tell me if anyone asks, that she works at a makeup parlor,” he told the news site. “So that’s what I fronted to everybody. The truth was she worked at a massage parlor and I knew that for a fact because she admitted it to me after I looked it up online.”

Park said his mother had worked hard to support two children, and been an elementary school teacher in Korea before immigrating.

According to local business owners and Atlanta K, a local media site, the other Gold Spa employees lived in the same city, and a group traveled back and forth between their homes and the spa every three days to a week.

“They were isolated and would eat and sleep over there in the spa,” said Lee Sang-yeon, president of Atlanta K. “They had very poor working conditions.”

Why don’t we know more about the Atlanta shooting victims? — The Washington Post

 

[dotr]

Wondering if authorities are also looking into a religious angle in the shootings as well as possible sexual and racial motives? speculation, imo.
Do the victims share the same religion as the alleged perp?
The victims in the Georgia spa shootings: 'She was one of my best friends'
''The Cherokee County Sheriff's Office said Wednesday that the 21-year-old suspect "told investigators that he blames the massage parlors for providing an outlet for his addiction to sex" and he "told investigators the crimes were not racially motivated."

''The source said no concrete evidence has yet emerged to support the idea that the locations and victims were targeted because of their ethnicity, but investigators are actively trying to determine what, if anything, the suspect might have said, written or thought about Asians or Asian women.

Atlanta Police Deputy Chief Charles Hampton Jr. said at a news conference Thursday, "We are looking at everything to make sure that we discover and determine what the motive of our homicides were."

 

[crhedBngr]

I worked in an Asian city for a well respected company (Sony) and we had to fire many men (professionals) who would speak to highly educated asian women who spoke great English, in bar girl English.

I can't "like" this post enough.

JMVHO.

 

[coffeeandacig]

First and foremost...my sincere condolences to the loved ones of these victims.
Just trying to play catch up on this thread. If anyone can answer these questions please do. I am sincerely trying to understand.

The FBI and the local Sheriff's office haven't deemed these attacks a "hate crime", yet. They would have to have sufficient evidence to do so, yes?
He was a frequent "customer", in what is the very intimate act of receiving a massage. I'd assume, a truly racist person would not have such close contact with a person of another race. Correct me, if I am wrong, please.

The mayor of Atlanta says she believes it is a "hate crime". Can anyone tell me, what evidence could the mayor of Atlanta have that the FBI and Sheriff's office would not be privy to?

And the latest is that Biden and Harris are going to Atlanta to address the "hate crimes" against Asians, but there is no evidence that this is the case, yet.
Biden, Harris to meet with Asian American leaders in Atlanta today

I looked up the growing number of attacks on the Asian community.
These horrible attacks were deemed, "racial bias"...
Police identify man for in string of bias attacks against Asian women

They are still looking for this guy for an awful attack on March 15th, against an Asian woman on the streets of Manhattan.
Man Hits Asian Woman With Hard Object in Latest Unprovoked Attack in NYC

This article from February 15, 2021 addresses the "stereotyping" of African Americans as being perpetrators of crimes against Asians. And some Asians stood united in overthrowing "white supremacy".
However, the attacks listed in this article, were on Asians and their businesses by other minorities, in particular the African Americans.
500 Black and Asian Community Members Rally in Oakland as Holiday Weekend Sees Wave of Attacks, Robberies

This all leads to my sincere question...

It can only be called a "hate crime" or "racially motivated" if the perpetrator is white, is that correct?

Although a majority of these attacks on Asian people and their businesses are being perpetuated by other minorities, it is white supremacists who are actually carrying out these horrible hate crimes???

 

[Inthedetails]

First and foremost...my sincere condolences to the loved ones of these victims.
Just trying to play catch up on this thread. If anyone can answer these questions please do. I am sincerely trying to understand.

The FBI and the local Sheriff's office haven't deemed these attacks a "hate crime", yet. They would have to have sufficient evidence to do so, yes?
He was a frequent "customer", in what is the very intimate act of receiving a massage. I'd assume, a truly racist person would not have such close contact with a person of another race. Correct me, if I am wrong, please.

The mayor of Atlanta says she believes it is a "hate crime". Can anyone tell me, what evidence could the mayor of Atlanta have that the FBI and Sheriff's office would not be privy to?

And the latest is that Biden and Harris are going to Atlanta to address the "hate crimes" against Asians, but there is no evidence that this is the case, yet.
Biden, Harris to meet with Asian American leaders in Atlanta today

I looked up the growing number of attacks on the Asian community.
These horrible attacks were deemed, "racial bias"...
Police identify man for in string of bias attacks against Asian women

They are still looking for this guy for an awful attack on March 15th, against an Asian woman on the streets of Manhattan.
Man Hits Asian Woman With Hard Object in Latest Unprovoked Attack in NYC

This article from February 15, 2021 addresses the "stereotyping" of African Americans as being perpetrators of crimes against Asians. And some Asians stood united in overthrowing "white supremacy".
However, the attacks listed in this article, were on Asians and their businesses by other minorities, in particular the African Americans.
500 Black and Asian Community Members Rally in Oakland as Holiday Weekend Sees Wave of Attacks, Robberies

This all leads to my sincere question...

It can only be called a "hate crime" or "racially motivated" if the perpetrator is white, is that correct?

Although a majority of these attacks on Asian people and their businesses are being perpetuated by other minorities, it is white supremacists who are actually carrying out these horrible hate crimes???

Here's info on Georgia's definition of hate crime:

LibGuides: Hate Crimes: State Statutes and Contacts: Georgia - Indiana

 

[slowpoke]

He was a frequent "customer", in what is the very intimate act of receiving a massage. I'd assume, a truly racist person would not have such close contact with a person of another race. Correct me, if I am wrong, please.

It can only be called a "hate crime" or "racially motivated" if the perpetrator is white, is that correct?

@human posted a link
Dear White Guys: Your Asian Fetish Is Showing | HuffPost
that addressed the phenomena of alt right men desiring Asian women:

“It’s become even more problematic lately, given the fixation on Asian women among members of the American far right. As writer Audrea Lim pointed out in a recent New York Times opinion piece, figures from Richard Spencer to Andrew Anglin, the founder of the neo-Nazi website [****], have touted their Asian girlfriends or partners at one point or another. ”
*
*
The perpetrator does not have be white to be considered a hate crime. Here’s a scenario from the US DOJ page on Learn About Hate Crimes:
Learn About Hate Crimes

“Scenario - Color
Six black men assaulted and seriously injured a white man and his Asian male friend as they were walking through a residential neighborhood. Witnesses stated the victims were attacked because they were trespassing in a “black” neighborhood.”

 

[sds71]

The first spa targeted in the Atlanta-area killings this week was in an area familiar to Robert Aaron Long. It is within a mile of an evangelical treatment facility where he spent time for what he described as “sex addiction."

https://washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/03/19/robert-aaron-long-evangelical-treatment-facility-sex-addiction/?tid=ss_tw…

For researchers like Nicole Prause, there is another reason to be skeptical of his self-described “sexual addiction”: There is no scientific consensus that such a diagnosis exists.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/18/sex-addiction-atlanta-shooting-long/

 

[Gibbo214]

Noticing that the women killed in Atlanta were ages 51, 63, 69, and 74.

I expected perhaps one "mature" woman to be at the spa perhaps serving as the boss. But four? I admit I'm surprised. Also interesting that it seems like it took authorities awhile to reach their families in Korea which is why it took until today for the names to be released. so does that mean they don't have family here in the States?

This is all making me sad.

jmo

Which kind of makes you think that it was a legitimate massage operation.

 

[Gibbo214]

First and foremost...my sincere condolences to the loved ones of these victims.
Just trying to play catch up on this thread. If anyone can answer these questions please do. I am sincerely trying to understand.

The FBI and the local Sheriff's office haven't deemed these attacks a "hate crime", yet. They would have to have sufficient evidence to do so, yes?
He was a frequent "customer", in what is the very intimate act of receiving a massage. I'd assume, a truly racist person would not have such close contact with a person of another race. Correct me, if I am wrong, please.

The mayor of Atlanta says she believes it is a "hate crime". Can anyone tell me, what evidence could the mayor of Atlanta have that the FBI and Sheriff's office would not be privy to?

And the latest is that Biden and Harris are going to Atlanta to address the "hate crimes" against Asians, but there is no evidence that this is the case, yet.
Biden, Harris to meet with Asian American leaders in Atlanta today

I looked up the growing number of attacks on the Asian community.
These horrible attacks were deemed, "racial bias"...
Police identify man for in string of bias attacks against Asian women

They are still looking for this guy for an awful attack on March 15th, against an Asian woman on the streets of Manhattan.
Man Hits Asian Woman With Hard Object in Latest Unprovoked Attack in NYC

This article from February 15, 2021 addresses the "stereotyping" of African Americans as being perpetrators of crimes against Asians. And some Asians stood united in overthrowing "white supremacy".
However, the attacks listed in this article, were on Asians and their businesses by other minorities, in particular the African Americans.
500 Black and Asian Community Members Rally in Oakland as Holiday Weekend Sees Wave of Attacks, Robberies

This all leads to my sincere question...

It can only be called a "hate crime" or "racially motivated" if the perpetrator is white, is that correct?

Although a majority of these attacks on Asian people and their businesses are being perpetuated by other minorities, it is white supremacists who are actually carrying out these horrible hate crimes???

<modsnip: unnecessary>
This is not about only white people being capable of hate crimes. If a minority attacked or murdered white people because they were white and no other reason, it would be a hate crime.

 

[LinasK]

Great post.

I am gobsmacked that a senior LE would even off the cuff describe the motivations for a mass killing that stretched across sites and nearly states as a man having a bad day.

That's what's really pissing me off. That there are actually people defending the police officer for saying that. Since when is it a cop's job to ascribe motive to a criminal??? Criminals lie all the time about motive and many other things. To me, it's clearly a hate crime when 6/8 victims were Asian, he targeted Asian businesses, and supposedly there was an eyewitness reported in Korean news that overheard him say that he wanted to kill Asians. The cop was acting as his defense attorney. And since when is sex addiction/bad day a legal defense for murder??? He should have shut up at that point.

 

[coffeeandacig]

@human posted a link
Dear White Guys: Your Asian Fetish Is Showing | HuffPost
that addressed the phenomena of alt right men desiring Asian women:

“It’s become even more problematic lately, given the fixation on Asian women among members of the American far right. As writer Audrea Lim pointed out in a recent New York Times opinion piece, figures from Richard Spencer to Andrew Anglin, the founder of the neo-Nazi website [****], have touted their Asian girlfriends or partners at one point or another. ”

Not sure what message you are trying to convey to me from this NYT opinion piece.
I'm not sure I'm following, since the article goes on to say the fascination with Asian women has been going on for hundreds of years, and has been perpetuated by Hollywood, in films like 1952's Geisha Girl.
And if these women are in a relationship with these men, then it's their choice, correct?

 

[LinasK]

Capt. Jay Baker, a spokesperson for the Cherokee County sheriff’s office, said of the accused mass murderer, Robert Aaron Long: “Yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did.” Because when people have a bad day they just go out and kill a bunch of people - SMH... WTH is Capt. Baker thinking? That statement turns my stomach!

Capt. Baker is clearly racist; besides his complete lack of concern for the victims and their families, in his Facebook posts from March 30 and April 2 of last year he promoted sales of an anti-Asian T-shirt. The shirts, echoing the rhetoric of President Donald J. Trump, referred to the coronavirus as an “imported virus from Chy-na.” Baker needs to be fired - it's officers like him that are giving a bad name to police all over America.

Source: A sheriff’s deputy faced criticism for saying the suspect had a ‘bad day’ and for anti-Asian Facebook posts.

I absolutely agree with you!