GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

[GoBuckeyes]

The gun wasn't pointed at him. TM was holding a shotgun, but afaics on the video he wasn't pointing it at Arbery.

It's not illegal in Georgia to be standing on a public road holding a shotgun and I see no evidence that TM would ever have pulled the trigger if Arbery hadn't attacked him.

Agreeing on the legality of holding/carrying a shotgun in GA (and many states) on a public road. (No issue with concealment if openly carrying.) I haven't seen a video I can see well enough to tell when the shotgun was pointed at AA. However, I think more videos may have surfaced since I watched. AMOO

 

[sds71]

March 20, 2019

The Brunswick Police Department is accepting applications for the Citizen Observer Program (COP). The COP program is a volunteer group sponsored by the Brunswick Police Department that uses a simple approach to safeguarding neighborhoods through resident involvement. COP volunteers are local residents who help BPD fight crime by patrolling their community, looking out for suspicious activity or potential hazards, offering assistance to local residents. COP volunteers are often called upon to assist with traffic during major events like structure fires and also during the annual City of Brunswick Christmas Parade.

This course is designed to give citizens an overview of the department’s operational methods. It will provide insight as to how police personnel perform their duties. Class size is limited and seats will be given on a first-come first-serve basis. Applications can be picked up at police department at 206 Mansfield Street. Applicants must also be able to pass an informal background check.

Most sessions are in a classroom setting and do not require any physical training. The class sessions are usually scheduled for Tuesday evenings from 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm. There are usually four to five sessions scheduled. To apply for the Citizen Observer Program or for more information, please visit www.brunswickpolice.org/community-programs or contact Officer Marsha Myers-Bue at 912-279-2607 or Captain Wan Thorpe at 912-279-2611.

http://brunswickpolice.org/apply-for-the-citizen-observer-program/

 

[ilovewings]

A good summary of the case here....

Records show a neighborhood on edge before Arbery’s final run

What a great synopsis of the case-' thanks for posting it!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I wanted to comment on at least one post that I read on the last board in which it was mentioned several times that TM made it very clear that he wanted to file a police report on a stolen handgun for which didn't have the serial number. Further, other thefts in the area didn't produce a police report. These facts, and I'm going only off of the original poster's comments, aren't necessarily suspicious in and of themselves.

There are a variety of reasons why someone may not know the serial number on a handgun that's been stolen. This can happen easily. Someone misplaces paperwork on the handgun that's been stolen. No paperwork because they inherited the handgun from aunt or uncle so and so and didn't think to write down the serial number. Forgetting to write down the serial number can also apply to any number of legal ways in which a handgun can be purchased. (Depending on the state.) Gun shows, bought it from a friend or relative, etc.

It's extremely important to report the theft of any weapon, particularly a gun. In the event the gun is used in a crime...we've all seen the extra legwork that can take when a stolen weapon leads back to a lawful owner who had it stolen but didn't report. Even though he couldn't give the serial number, I'm sure he could give an accurate make and model. And it's likely that somewhere the GBI could track down some paperwork in the event of a crime with that weapon. AMOO

 

[tlcya]

A good summary of the case here....

Records show a neighborhood on edge before Arbery’s final run

thanks, from your link:

Cellphone video captured what happened next.

Arbery tries to run around the pickup. Travis McMichael exits the driver’s seat with his shotgun. Greg McMichael stands in the bed of the truck, his .357 raised.

-------
MOO, I can't tell at what point or points any weapon was raised because the video that we have seen that was taken by WB (Roddy) doesn't show the full 4 minute chase it shows the conclusion only. In that portion of video we the public have seen Roddy's and his phone are too far behind for the video to clearly depict if GM had his gun raised but I don't think he did.

But we now know the chase is reported to have lasted 4 minutes through and around the neighborhood, down several streets. None of which we have seen video of. I have no idea if at any point guns were raise or not, pointed or not. And it doesn't really matter to me. yes or no, THEY were the posse, THEY were the danger, and THEY killed a man.

 

[Cryptic]

He was pulling out and about to head in the direction they had gone in, when somehow he got in the middle of things, and as he found out afterwards, accidentally blocked AA from running in that direction.

My client heard and saw what seemed like escalation by GM and TM, but still didn't understand what was happening. S

I like your defensive point about W not knowing what was happening. I would add GM's status as a retired police officer who had been recently been "re-deputized" as sorts to the formula:

When my client saw GM involved, he presumed that the person fleeing must be suspected of a serious crime (no police officer would initiate such a chase over a trivial matter- right?)

Likewise, I would not present 'W' as a lost "babe in the woods" (accidently blocking AA). Rather, it might be best from a defense POV to admit some low level involvement- but.... quickly blame the other guy. Maybe:

My client took GM's status as a re-deputized LEO in good faith. He then very briefly attempted to stop AA when ordered to by GM (whom he viewed as a police officer). He then discontinued the action after he saw GM and TM escalating the situation.

 

[SharonNeedles]

AA wouldn't have had an opportunity to take the gun if the gun wasn't pointed at him in the first place!

I just feel like so much emphasis is being put on why AA shouldn't have (supposedly) tried to take the gun when he didn't create the situation he was reacting to it and why can't he try to defend himself but they can?

MOO

The video clearly shows AA was moving towards the truck with at least 20 yards or so to see that the driver was standing outside the cab holding a long gun. He definitely had time to consider “what do I do now?” He could stop. He could turn around. He could turn left or right and get off the street altogether. He could even run wide around the truck as it looked like he might do. Charging the man holding a gun wasn’t his only option.

 

[Cryptic]

. He could turn left or right and get off the street altogether. He could even run wide around the truck as it looked like he might do. Charging the man holding a gun wasn’t his only option.

He might have concluded that the men were going to shoot him down from behind if he continued to flee.

AA had already repeatedly tried to get away from the men. Given the fact that the men were brandishing weapons and trying to corner him, I don't think it is an unreasonable conclusion.

In short, AA had already tried to avoid an escalating confrontation by escaping- it wasn't working. Reasonably believing that the pursuers intended to harm him, he was forced to turn and fight at some point.

 

[MsBetsy]

The gun wasn't pointed at him. TM was holding a shotgun, but afaics on the video he wasn't pointing it at Arbery.

It's not illegal in Georgia to be standing on a public road holding a shotgun and I see no evidence that TM would ever have pulled the trigger if Arbery hadn't attacked him.

But they weren't just standing on the road holding a shotgun. They admitted they were chasing him and had already attempted to cut him off twice.
Travis also admitted that his finger was on the trigger before pointing the gun towards him. His father was standing in the back of the truck holding a gun.

They were fully prepared to use deadly force, which in this situation, is illegal.

Imo

 

[Cappuccino]

He might have concluded that the men were going to shoot him down from behind if he continued to flee.

AA had already repeatedly tried to get away from the men. Given the fact that the men were brandishing weapons and trying to corner him, I don't think it is an unreasonable conclusion.

We can never know what Arbery was thinking at the time, and I agree it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to think he was going to be shot anyway.

It's a horrible tragedy, I think on that at least we can all agree.

 

[jaxibear]

I would hope none. The McMichaels showed very poor judgement.

As a hypothetical question though, how many gun owners in that position would have allowed Arbery to take their gun.

As a gun owner, I would never have pursued him in the first place. He was not threatening anyone and did not appear to be planning to threaten anyone. If I suspected him of a crime, I would have called the police. Period. That is responsible behavior IMHO.

 

[Cappuccino]

As a gun owner, I would never have pursued him in the first place. He was not threatening anyone and did not appear to be planning to threaten anyone. If I suspected him of a crime, I would have called the police. Period. That is responsible behavior IMHO.

That's great, but it was really a hypothetical question. If you were in that situation, would you have let go of the gun?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I have a question for those who have said they've entered a residential construction site as a home was being built-without the permission of the builder or owner. Did you walk through the house or observe from just outside of the structure? Did you explore the construction during daylight hours our after dark?

 

[tayaway]

He's dead because he grabbed the gun.

Stop victim blaming.

He didn't shoot himself. He didn't have his finger already on the trigger. He didn't have a second gunman as backup.

 

[Leve]

The video clearly shows AA was moving towards the truck with at least 20 yards or so to see that the driver was standing outside the cab holding a long gun. He definitely had time to consider “what do I do now?” He could stop. He could turn around. He could turn left or right and get off the street altogether. He could even run wide around the truck as it looked like he might do. Charging the man holding a gun wasn’t his only option.

The person taking the video was also involved in trying to trap him and block him in. That was what was behind him.

This lasted 4 minutes, he had tried evasive maneuvers.

I don't agree he should have ran into yards or near houses. That would have just given justification for shooting him.

 

[Cappuccino]

Stop victim blaming.

He didn't shoot himself. He didn't have his finger already on the trigger. He didn't have a second gunman as backup.

He attacked TM and tried to take his gun. That's a fact, not victim blaming.

 

[jaxibear]

That's great, but it was really a hypothetical question. If you were in that situation, would you have let go of the gun?

I would never be in that situation. I take gun ownership very seriously. I am not reckless, impulsive or irresponsible with that right.

 

[Leve]

I have a question for those who have said they've entered a residential construction site as a home was being built-without the permission of the builder or owner. Did you walk through the house or observe from just outside of the structure? Did you explore the construction during daylight hours our after dark?

I walked all the way through houses under construction including going up any stairs if it's a 2 story. Always during the day and always in neighborhoods under construction. Owners are developers and really don't care, they hope you are looking to buy.

I've also checked out old abandoned houses back in my teens. Now there's a whole bunch of You-tubers making a living doing it.

 

[ilovewings]

I cannot imagine the fear this young man had at the time he was being chased: his heart was probably pounding in his chest: he was terrified - he was being chased for a protracted period of time by two yahoos with guns: trying to put myself in his position (which i really cannot even imagine the level of fear and shock)- was that if he continued to run he was going to be shot in the back and why would he not believe that would happen? i fully believe he would have been shot in the back-- these two wanted him --if they had to shoot him down they would have. period. He decided at some point to try and disarm one of the yahoos and got into a struggle, which turned into a life and death struggle which he lost. Sadly. tragically. pathetically. Now he is being blamed for his own death by many.
This will not be a slam dunk in a court of law and those two yahoos could be acquitted. It doesn't change the fact for me that they had evil intentions to kill him one way or the other.

 

[ilovewings]

I cannot imagine the fear this young man had at the time he was being chased: his heart was probably pounding in his chest: he was terrified - he was being chased for a protracted period of time by two yahoos with guns: trying to put myself in his position (which i really cannot even imagine the level of fear and shock)- was that if he continued to run he was going to be shot in the back and why would he not believe that would happen? i fully believe he would have been shot in the back-- these two wanted him --if they had to shoot him down they would have. period. Why else were they threatening him with freaking guns? He decided at some point to try and disarm one of the yahoos and got into a struggle, which turned into a life and death struggle which he lost. Sadly. tragically. pathetically. Now he is being blamed for his own death by many.
This will not be a slam dunk in a court of law and those two yahoos could be acquitted. It doesn't change the fact for me that they had intentions to detain him and if that meant they had to kill him, they would do that.