GUILTY GA - Antonio Santiago, 13 mos, Brunswick, 21 March 2013 - #1

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by hlegate, Mar 22, 2013.

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  1. Sonya610

    Sonya610 Former Member

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    Uhhh.... I ain't a philosopher. When I go for a walk in the woods and encounter different animals I see different risks, rattlesnakes, squirrels, bears, rabbits.

    Some are dangerous and have a much higher likelihood of causing harm or killing you. Call me "ignorant" cause I base my opinions on reality and statistics.

    (Having said that I am very meta in most ways, I have had rattlesnakes in my yard and no harm came to them, but they didn't come into the yard to rob or kill us ya know?)
     


  2. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae Well-Known Member

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    Um I will have to differ on the opinion that I can have empathy for the mother of a killer, murderer. I can't. I saw his facebook page and his myspace, I have no empathy for his family, they knew/saw what they were raising and allowed it. That's just my opinion. I don't have to feel sorry for anybody that I don't want to.
     
  3. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    Not quite getting your analogy, though I suspect at this point (since it's the second time you've used it) I never will. Respecting what wild animals might do if you come upon them has little if anything to do with grieving with those who grieve.

    I've never had a 'healthy fear' about empathizing with other people's sorrow. But then again, I'm pretty adept at sensing the genuineness of that grief...so I don't get taken advantage of very often. Been around enough dysfunction I can smell it from a mile away. ;D
     
  4. Trident

    Trident Well-Known Member

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    AMEN to that. :rocker:
     
  5. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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    I have a difficult time feeling empathy for family members of BE who would lie to LE about his whereabouts at the time of the shooting. Those family members were not under a rock the last few years. They were apparently involved in this young man's daily life from their own reports (nutritious breakfasts and all). I can acknowledge they may be in pain, but I can't empathize with it or devote much time to worrying about their feelings now. They knew what this kid was about IMO and his being involved in a murder was a foregone conclusion at some point. Also MOO.

    What I can be sensitive to is the community as a whole, Ms. Obley, and others who are in pain to see two young people go down such an awful path.

    That is just my view on it.
     
  6. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    I can understand that feeling, and that's true--no one can force empathy. But...I've read nothing about the mom, heard nothing from her, don't even know her. I do know even moms of bad kids hurt. So I can hurt for that. I can empathize with those times when my own kids made bad choices that cut me to the quick (regardless of how they were raised and usually as a result of peer pressure).

    I'm likely in the minority here, but I don't hold parents ultimately responsible for what their grown kids choose to do, nor do I feel they're entitled to 'payback' grief as a result of those kid's choices...which may have been part of a long road of rebellion against her best efforts for all we know. I don't know, and I don't extend empathy on the basis of whether or not people 'deserve' it, anyway. It's easier that way, for me.
     
  7. necco

    necco New Member

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    I said *I* feel nothing but sympathy for non-complicit family and friends of the community. Non-complicit. As in those not contributing to the situation, directly or indirectly. NON-COMPLICIT.

    And I never told anyone else how to feel.

    (Oh, and off topic, of the animals listed as risks only one has ever struck fear in my heart. And it was a bunny, true story.)
     
  8. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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    this is very sad.
     
  9. Trident

    Trident Well-Known Member

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    What would be perfect for this thread is sympathy for a hurting mother who watched her baby shot between the eyes. What else would be perfect is less sympathy for the "community" as a whole, who are grieving for the "alleged" perps. In my opinion, this is only the tip of the iceberg.
     
  10. Isabelle

    Isabelle Verified registered nurse

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    Sad. This is a situation where the older boy takes the younger boy along for a "ride" to show him just how tough he (the older one) is. Maybe the younger boy was to be a witness to a killing no matter who was killed, just the first person/people that came along. With the killing, witnessed by the younger boy, the older one may have become fully vested in whatever gang he was connected to. Maybe this made him the "king" of the gang. In this world, at this time, I am not at all surprised that a person can come upon an unknown other and just kill for the heck of it. It's become a sport! That's sick!
     
  11. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae Well-Known Member

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    Thank you jjenny for this link.

    http://www.news4jax.com/news/Brunsw...-/format/rss_2.0/item/1/-/v3a48m/-/index.html

    "When he got in the car, he laid down in the backseat," said Obley. "He kept looking around, peeping up and I said, 'Boy, what you doing? You skipping school?' You know, he said 'No ma'am.'"

    When she started asking for more questions, Obley said Elkins cut the ride short.

    "When he got out of the car, he had something hid up in his pants. It was a gun," said Obley.
     
  12. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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  13. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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    and this
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Gypsy Road

    Gypsy Road Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone wonder why Mr. Santiago is so forgiving of the 17 and 14 year old thugs, but not forgiving of Ms. West? Why he is blaming her? He said so much in an earlier linked article. Why is his anger placed on her? She is obviously grieving, and so is he, but why would he say such things (not angry at thugs, blames Ms. West) to a newspaper

    ETA - I AM NOT blaming anyone here - not the mother OR the father! I'm just making an observation and asking questions. Struck me as odd that Mr. S feels that way. I would want to kill the thugs myself, but he already seems to be forgiving them because they had a bad upbringing (his words).
     
  15. necco

    necco New Member

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    I hope they are checking into the possibility that the attempted robbery was a cover and the mother was targeted. I hope they're tracing the associates of the woman the mom had evicted as well as any possible connections to the incident that lead to her first son's death.

    To me, this SCREAMS "kill the child to make the mother suffer" and I wonder if her and her first son's actions against drug dealers could have led to this.

    (I am not at all blaming the mother. She was right to try and get drugs out of her neighborhood, I just hope they look to that as a possible motive.)
     
  16. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe her first son's death has anything to do with any supposed actuions against drug dealers.

    "The boy who stabbed Shaun Glassey acted in self-defense, police found, and will not be charged. Glassey and four juvenile companions, who were not named because of their ages, lured the unarmed 17-year-old via text message to a location on Lawnton Avenue, where they planned their attack, according to the Gloucester County Prosecutor's Office. "

    http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080313/NEWS01/80313044&nclick_check=1
     
  17. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    I have no clue why baby's father would blame the mother, but claim he forgives the suspects. Makes no sense to me either. Based on this I am going to guess that he and the mother didn't have the best of relationships.
    By the way it's amazing how much the baby looked like her first son (even though they were only half-brothers).
     
  18. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    I tend to believe that this was not planned but a spur of the moment impulsive bad decision. Mostly because it seems such a stupid thing to plan. In broad daylight, in an urban area with people about, two undisguised and identifiable kids, a witness who can identify them, perhaps other witnesses, the getaway method by running away... It just screams we want to get caught.

    If someone thought that this was a good way to target someone they are the king of stupid in addition to being evil.
     
  19. Gypsy Road

    Gypsy Road Well-Known Member

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    Do they live together?
     
  20. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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    I have avoided posting or participating in conversation regarding the parents of Antonio because of fear of inviting refreshed speculation about them and I am not trying to further that business.

    As to my thoughts on your question, I find that sad and confusing because I thought he was the person who suggested she get out of the house more and take a walk? Maybe I am mistaken or have this case confused with another.

    What I will say is that it is important for everyone to remember that these parents were separated before this event. they were not a couple anymore. They were co parents. Feeling anger towards the other parent or assigning blame upon the death of a child is not at all uncommon. This happened on your watch, why did you do this, why didn't you do this, etc.

    Sometimes divorce comes after the death of a child. It is very hard on a relationship that is pretty good before the death. Now apply that thinking to a couple who are already apart.

    I feel very sad for both of these parents as they grieve the loss of their son. I would not be comfortable assigning too much to dad's words right now. He is a man who's lost his son. She is a woman who has lost hers.

    They will both be in my prayers.

    [ETA around 16% of couples divorce after the death of a child. According to this link while not common, it is not unusual either. The death of a child can be a huge stressor on a marriage that is not in trouble http://www.divorce360.com/divorce-a.../divorce-and-death-of-a-child.aspx?artid=469]

    ETAA please note my post is in error, I found out after it had been quoted that Mr. Santiago and Ms. West were not separated but were still a couple at the time of little Antonio's death, but they have always maintained separate residences.

    That fact does not change the basic premise of my post which is that couples grieving the loss of a child can feel misplaced anger or blame towards the other parent.
     
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