GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #1

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Hmmmm. Ignorance is bliss....

I'm going to be completely honest here - as I've mentioned before, and I could be wrong and out of line but I am 26 years old and have one phone. One. I don't know anyone my age who has 2 phones willingly (besides for super corporate or successful business men types who are older than me).

I have absolutely hid things from my parents over the years. But I'm sorry, this appears to be different. An upper middle class young woman doesn't just "vanish" from her parents wealthy home in druid hills suddenly. I'm not buying it.

It seems that Jenna's family wasn't super invasive (i.e. apparently not even knowing she had her own apartment until PI Told them address?????, letting her be independent, on her own, etc. .) so anything that could be handled on her one phone could be handled privately. It seems. My intuition strongly suggests this second phone is imperative to this case.

Western union, stealing money from job, roommate not letting parents in, cambelton road, English Ave, second phone, multiple gas stations, ??????? Something is up here. And in all honesty, it seems like no one is doing anything about it.
I agree. I know I certainly wouldn't be removing any facebook posts during an active missing persons investigation if it were my child. Perhaps the family was advised to do so, but generally speaking, I wouldn't recommend it.
However it is only gone from public view, the police can still see it.
IMO removing a post just muddies the waters and in this case, it's muddy enough.
I pray that LE knows much more than they are alluding to and Jenna's whereabouts are revealed soon!
MOO

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First time poster....
I'm both impressed and intrigued by the amount of time people have put into this thread. I have come to realize that there are people all over the world working on this case, and simple things such as "pocket dials" and using a GPS to get home are not common things to everyone (yes, I use Waze religiously to get home in time for the school bus in Atlanta traffic!). With that said, I feel that it is only fair to shed some light on a certain topic that is very rampant here in Atlanta, and although it has been touched upon in this thread, I want to make sure we are all in the same page, whether or not you feel it directly applies to this case: Human Trafficking. I'm not trying to make any suggestions, I just want to be clear about what I've learned from living in Atlanta.
I am an educator (experience with Autism) and mother, and have tried to gain as much information on human trafficking as possible. I have been to workshops and symposiums with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the Attorney General, along with former victims, safe house workers, psychologists, and family members. It is a horrific situation here and it is NOT limited to the inner city as people assume. First, "pimps" are not who you would expect them to be. They are not men with gold chains driving Cadillac Escalades with tinted windows. Furthermore, the "streets" are no longer shady places with dark alleys. Pimps are oftentimes suburban men and the "streets" are the internet, so this is a huge problem because there is not a lot of physical evidence of "solicitation while hanging out on the corners." We are not talking about women choosing prostitution, rather victims of human trafficking. With human trafficking, the VICTIMS are not personally getting paid by the clients (who are oftentimes white collar men - husbands, fathers, men traveling for business). The pimps deal with the money, and in turn, "take care" of the ladies, who are a "reusable resource" according to the GBI. Unlike drugs that that are gone once they are smoked, sniffed, or injected, these women can be used over and over again.
Pimps are CONSTANTLY combing through social media and physically watching for young women to "groom." The girls oftentimes have a vulnerability to them which is EXACTLY what the pimp desires. They pay attention to them, buy them nice things, and meet their needs (or so they think), and getting the victims closer and closer to them which means further away from their families I still well orchestrated. In turn, the women fall victim to the pimps and are soon being sold for sex. As much as they didn't set out to do it, many of them do not know how to leave, and many don't want to leave because they actually feel like the pimp cares for them and they don't want to let them down (this is why the pimps seek out the vulnerable ones). If the victims threaten to leave, the pimps always have the upper hand because they are their sole provider. The victims are not given the money for their services as in regular prostitution (or if they are, the pimp coordinates the transaction and knows exactly how much money to receive), they have no choice but to stay because if they leave, they will have NOTHING. Unfortunately, they feel loyal to their pimps because they are having emotional needs fulfilled (being wanted) by the pimp. It is a very scary symbiotic relationship where oftentimes they feel no way out, but become so brainwashed that many choose not to leave even when given the chance.
I pray this is NOT the case for Jenna, and I pray for her safety, wherever she may be. Hopefully this sheds some light as to whether or not you feel human trafficking is pertinent to this case.
Thanks for all you do and blessings to all!

Great first post!
 
First time poster....
I'm both impressed and intrigued by the amount of time people have put into this thread. I have come to realize that there are people all over the world working on this case, and simple things such as "pocket dials" and using a GPS to get home are not common things to everyone (yes, I use Waze religiously to get home in time for the school bus in Atlanta traffic!). With that said, I feel that it is only fair to shed some light on a certain topic that is very rampant here in Atlanta, and although it has been touched upon in this thread, I want to make sure we are all in the same page, whether or not you feel it directly applies to this case: Human Trafficking. I'm not trying to make any suggestions, I just want to be clear about what I've learned from living in Atlanta.
I am an educator (experience with Autism) and mother, and have tried to gain as much information on human trafficking as possible. I have been to workshops and symposiums with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the Attorney General, along with former victims, safe house workers, psychologists, and family members. It is a horrific situation here and it is NOT limited to the inner city as people assume. First, "pimps" are not who you would expect them to be. They are not men with gold chains driving Cadillac Escalades with tinted windows. Furthermore, the "streets" are no longer shady places with dark alleys. Pimps are oftentimes suburban men and the "streets" are the internet, so this is a huge problem because there is not a lot of physical evidence of "solicitation while hanging out on the corners." We are not talking about women choosing prostitution, rather victims of human trafficking. With human trafficking, the VICTIMS are not personally getting paid by the clients (who are oftentimes white collar men - husbands, fathers, men traveling for business). The pimps deal with the money, and in turn, "take care" of the ladies, who are a "reusable resource" according to the GBI. Unlike drugs that that are gone once they are smoked, sniffed, or injected, these women can be used over and over again.
Pimps are CONSTANTLY combing through social media and physically watching for young women to "groom." The girls oftentimes have a vulnerability to them which is EXACTLY what the pimp desires. They pay attention to them, buy them nice things, and meet their needs (or so they think), and getting the victims closer and closer to them which means further away from their families I still well orchestrated. In turn, the women fall victim to the pimps and are soon being sold for sex. As much as they didn't set out to do it, many of them do not know how to leave, and many don't want to leave because they actually feel like the pimp cares for them and they don't want to let them down (this is why the pimps seek out the vulnerable ones). If the victims threaten to leave, the pimps always have the upper hand because they are their sole provider. The victims are not given the money for their services as in regular prostitution (or if they are, the pimp coordinates the transaction and knows exactly how much money to receive), they have no choice but to stay because if they leave, they will have NOTHING. Unfortunately, they feel loyal to their pimps because they are having emotional needs fulfilled (being wanted) by the pimp. It is a very scary symbiotic relationship where oftentimes they feel no way out, but become so brainwashed that many choose not to leave even when given the chance.
I pray this is NOT the case for Jenna, and I pray for her safety, wherever she may be. Hopefully this sheds some light as to whether or not you feel human trafficking is pertinent to this case.
Thanks for all you do and blessings to all!

Nice to have you here.. welcome....great info, very good put into words.....and I want to add that a lot of trafficking victims are also "lured" by women, pretending to be a girlfriend....
 
(Quote deleted for space)

Welcome WorkerBee, very informative post.
I am really happy to see all the new local posters here. The info has been extremely helpful.

That was me asking about the pocket dial. I had not heard the term before but had experienced the phenomenon. E.g. I don't know what Waze is but will google it. :smile: I do know what GPS is but don't have use of a satnav here in rural West Wales but understand it would make city travelling easier.

Although we both speak English, we have different and unique words on both sides of the pond. I remember having to explain "fortnight" to many americans, when I would ask for a fortnight's holiday at work. Now we have Google. :laughing:

Again, welcome to all newbies.

NB. Waze is a free gps, map and traffic app.
 
Nice to have you here.. welcome....great info, very good put into words.....and I want to add that a lot of trafficking victims are also "lured" by women, pretending to be a girlfriend....
My son is almost 25, knows that area and his first response was human trafficking.
I thought she was too old, but after some consideration, maybe not.
I wish they could find the car!
Mind keeps going to the story of this woman who went missing and was just off the road inside her car for weeks!
The same place where her phone last pinged
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/police-body-found-inside-car-in-cobb-county
MOO

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Exactly!!!! I just googled "fortnight" and learned something new! I know that my assumptions on human trafficking were WAY OFF until I educated myself (knowing the premise is the same elsewhere, but the "business" is off the charts here, and the supply and demand would make your tonails curl, especially when having to do with children).
 
My son is almost 25, knows that area and his first response was human trafficking.
I thought she was too old, but after some consideration, maybe not.
I wish they could find the car!
Mind keeps going to the story of this woman who went missing and was just off the road inside her car for weeks!
The same place where her phone last pinged
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/police-body-found-inside-car-in-cobb-county
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Interesting that you mention her age being too old for a human trafficking victim; she is at the higher end of typical targeted victims in Atlanta, but her petite frame and vulnerability (and possible social immaturity due to Autism) might lead others to think she is much younger than her actual age. Just my opinion and truly hope that I am way off base.



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Hi Subie,

Did you finally talked to LE? I really hope so!

Why is it so hard to pinpoint who, where and when Jenna is seen in her mom's car with a male? It seems very relevant to establish a timeline. You could call this person X.

Also it would be great to know at what exact time uber-friend was with Jenna (you said you know before 10 pm on Friday) and where they were when they met. At your parent's house/Jenna's apartment/somewhere in the city? Respectfully: It looks to me that it wouldn't be so hard for her to be more exact....was it during the day, early in the evening, around?

I looked at the missing persons list in Atlanta City police site but I didn't saw Jenna listed there.....do you no why this is? http://www.atlantapd.org/community/crime-stoppers/missing-persons

The most recent person listed is another girl.. applied for a job in Tease strip club on Cheshire Bridge Road on 25 February 2016.... Totally coincidence I guess....but I like to see Jenna listed there also.
 
Interesting that you mention her age being too old for a human trafficking victim; she is at the higher end of typical targeted victims in Atlanta, but her petite frame and vulnerability (and possible social immaturity due to Autism) might lead others to think she is much younger than her actual age. Just my opinion and truly hope that I am way off base.



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I don't think she is to old to be trafficked at all. She is a good looking girl and excuse me for saying this ....there is "taste" for every type and for traffickers only merchandise, and they will do anything to meet the market demands.
 
Hi Subie,

Did you finally talked to LE? I really hope so!

Why is it so hard to pinpoint who, where and when Jenna is seen in her mom's car with a male? It seems very relevant to establish a timeline. You could call this person X.

Also it would be great to know at what exact time uber-friend was with Jenna (you said you know before 10 pm on Friday) and where they were when they met. At your parent's house/Jenna's apartment/somewhere in the city? Respectfully: It looks to me that it wouldn't be so hard for her to be more exact....was it during the day, early in the evening, around?

I looked at the missing persons list in Atlanta City police site but I didn't saw Jenna listed there.....do you no why this is? http://www.atlantapd.org/community/crime-stoppers/missing-persons

The most recent person listed is another girl.. applied for a job in Tease strip club on Cheshire Bridge Road on 25 February 2016.... Totally coincidence I guess....but I like to see Jenna listed there also.

Still nothing from the LE. Parents are working on reaching back out to the media about all of this. Totally frustrated
 
Still nothing from the LE. Parents are working on reaching back out to the media about all of this. Totally frustrated

I could say...I can imagine....but actually I can not...for real....nobody is missing in my family....must be devastating, breaking you., driving you mad...so sorry. The only thing I can do is giving you a (digital) hug.
 
I do think media would pick this up more if more of the aspergers/autism angle was widely published. Easy to throw in a bit about how ppl w high functioning autism behave...it's sort of a cheap shot but makes for a news story that stands out.
 
New thread coming up.

Please get ready to move over in about 10-15 minutes.

:tyou:
 
You make some really good points here! I'd agree that I've never known an autistic person that purposely lied- even about things most people lie about all the time to avoid hurt feelings (i.e; "does this dress make me look fat?")

Do you think with the stealing that someone could have told her to say she was framed?? I know she wouldn't make up the lie on her own but seems like someone could've coached her maybe? However, it might be that most people with autism would rather just plead the fifth as Jenna had done with plenty of other things. I'm just not sure if she could be easily coached into lying. Any thoughts on that, lilgup?

My original intent of my post was simply to say that people going down the pathway of this double life theory needed to stop and consider that most people on the autism spectrum would not be capable of the amount of intentional deceit and web of lies that usually accompany a double life. I highly doubt that she would have been capable of weaving that web of lies on her own.

IF she was involved in something that she was actively lying about to her family, then someone else would have had to be manipulating the situation. I can easily see how someone might see her as an easy target and manipulate her into believing that something that was wrong was actually ok, and then she repeat what they had told her.

I don't know Jenna, and so I have no idea what her capacity is for understanding right from wrong and what is legal vs. illegal. We only have the statement from her family that she can be easily manipulated. My point is merely that I think chasing this idea of a secret double life that she was actively hiding from her parents may be a dead end. It's much more likely that there is someone she has become tangled up with that has been manipulating her into doing things that she doesn't realize are not ok, and that this person/people might be responsible for her disappearance.

I do not think she just up and walked/drove away voluntarily and without telling anyone to get away from legal situations or because she desired independence. That would be highly out of character for someone on the spectrum. I do not think that she was weaving a tangled web of lies intending to deceive her family and throw them off the scent of some seedy 2nd life she had going on. A person on the spectrum would either refuse to talk about something they didn't want to discuss (as we know she has done), or be stating things that THEY BELIEVE to be true. In other words...I feel that most likely there is someone out there that is the "puppet master" and that is the person that is likely ultimately responsible and needs to be identified.

If it were me, I would focus on the time period from when she moved out of her parents house up to the day she went missing. What new people came into her life during that time or shortly before she moved out? Who was she calling regularly and/or who was calling her? How far back does the Google Timeline go - are there any places she was frequenting in the last few months that she had not been going to before? Get whatever information you can from the bank statements - did her spending patterns change? Was she withdrawing money more regularly? What about Facebook? Do we notice a change in the types of pictures posted in the last few months vs. say, a year ago? What prompted her to move out of her parents house when she was unemployed with no income? Did someone convince her this was a good idea? If she was so keen to be independent and live on her own, why hadn't she moved out when she had income and would have had a legitimate reason to want to move closer to her place of work? Is she still in touch with people from the pet store and if so, who?

Something clearly changed around the time that she moved out of her parents house. As has been stated before, it seems an odd time to move out (unemployed, no income), and generally, people on the autism spectrum are creatures of routine and habit. Moving across town isn't a big deal for most of us, but that would have been a significant change to someone on the spectrum as it would represent entirely new routines and behaviors and surroundings. Who or what convinced her to move at this specific time in her life? Was this a sudden move, from the family's perspective? Or had this been something she had been planning for a long time? From what we've heard, it seems almost "random" to me. People on the autism spectrum don't generally strike me as people who would be comfortable "crashing on a friend's couch". Again, I do not know Jenna or where she falls on the spectrum or what sort of impact her being on the autism spectrum has on her life, but these are the things that stand out to me from what I do know about autism spectrum disorders in general.
 
Not necessarily at all. Google western unionn scams. In this day and age I really don't know who uses western union for legit reasons unless it's to send money to people overseas. Western union does not require a username and password as far as I know. For people who buy and sell things online, the words western union are major red flags. I would never buy or sell from anyone who insisted on western union. PayPal has also had its issues with scams.

My mother in law is always sending me Western Union, lol. We both have bank accounts, but she just prefers Western Union, nothing nefarious but she will about once every couple months throw some money and text me the pick up number for it, she is about 5 states away and isn't really into technology, but there truly are some people who are just old school. :loveyou: And yes I have the best Mother in Law in the world :) I appreciate her beyond belief.
 
Still nothing from the LE. Parents are working on reaching back out to the media about all of this. Totally frustrated

Not sure if you saw my post previously about contacting Emory PD? Might be just outside their jurisdiction, but I am assuming Emory has security cameras and/or CCTV in the area and as they are far less busy than Dekalb PD, might have more time to go through their security camera footage to see if they can spot her car heading on any of the roads around campus.
 
My mother in law is always sending me Western Union, lol. We both have bank accounts, but she just prefers Western Union, nothing nefarious but she will about once every couple months throw some money and text me the pick up number for it, she is about 5 states away and isn't really into technology, but there truly are some people who are just old school. :loveyou: And yes I have the best Mother in Law in the world :) I appreciate her beyond belief.

LOL, I think there are people who use WU for legitimate reasons for sure. I think what's concerning here is who on earth is she sending money to if she has no income??
 
Not sure if you saw my post previously about contacting Emory PD? Might be just outside their jurisdiction, but I am assuming Emory has security cameras and/or CCTV in the area and as they are far less busy than Dekalb PD, might have more time to go through their security camera footage to see if they can spot her car heading on any of the roads around campus.

Yeah, talked with parents on that. They work with Dekalb PD as well I believe. We can check though
 
Can you elaborate on western union transactions? Was she sending or receiving? Can you figure out which Western Union she was going to?
 
Yeah, talked with parents on that. They work with Dekalb PD as well I believe. We can check though

If I were your parents, I'd just play dumb and reach out to them directly and ask if there is anything they can do on their end. Let them tell you that you need to go through Dekalb PD, IYKWIM. You might get someone nice on the phone who will take it on and go through the footage for you.
 
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