GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #3

[JayLee#99]

I am not sure I would consider her "alone" with a big pit bull with her. You would think walking with a Pitbull would be safe.

I have a pit bull/boxer mix. His coloring is all boxer but his face and body is all pit bull. When I go for walks or out by myself at night, I always take my pitbull. The reason I take him is for safety, knowing he would bite someone if they tried to attack me. I no longer feel as safe with him as I did, after hearing of this case.

 

[CLGM]

Was thinking about the comments yesterday that the killer must have had some familiarity with anatomy, butchery, etc. The more common deaths by rage-filled stabbing involve just that -- stabbing and hacking -- not all of the different targeted areas and different kinds of cut that KJ had. Not sure I'm explaining this clearly, but basically this is different than someone running up and repeatedly hacking/stabbing someone.

The other thing about all of the different kinds of cuts targeting different parts of the body in different ways -- this person had to have been thinking about this in their head for sometime. IMO, you don't come up with something like this if you haven't already had lots of ideations, etc.

I don't understand how the LE don't have things like traces of blood. If the killer went to a car, there would have to be even one drop of blood leading to say, the curb. If they ran to somewhere, there would be at least a trace of blood showing the direction they went. The killer presumably would have discarded what they were wearing -- the LE probably checked trash bins, inside and outside in properties within a large radius of the park. If the killer went somewhere to wash off, traces of blood would be found in the sink, drain pipes, etc. It's mind-boggling that a crime so gruesome with presumably blood everywhere hasn't yielded more clues -- enough clues to have identified a suspect and to have had enough evidence to arrest them.

Could the killer have had a piece of plastic with them that KJ was on to contain the blood? I don't think so, but thinking about ways the killer could have controlled how much they got on themselves. The most logical explanation IMO is that they had an accomplice. Maybe they set out to kill her, and the person who did the killing went way beyond what the accomplice thought it was going to be like, but knew they better keep helping. [Ack, this makes me think that it could have been some gang stunt and the member doing the killing turned out to be super psycho but nobody knew to what extent. I am from Atlanta though and this isn't an area where the gangs operate. And gang activity doesn't rise to this level of deviation as others have noted.]

One last thought -- sorry for jumping around! My brain was chewing on this all night, apparently.

<modsnip>

 

[cuffem]

EC (and her family) are victims at this point and not named by LE, so TOS.

 

[K.jill]

There is a lake at Piedmont Park. The killer could have walked from where Katie’s body was found to the lake very quickly. I am not good at estimating distances but it is 60-70 feet from the crime scene.

 

[cuffem]

There is a lake at Piedmont Park. The killer could have walked from where Katie’s body was found to the lake very quickly. I am not good at estimating distances but it is 60-70 feet from the crime scene.

Has LE searched this lake for a weapon possibly dumped?

 

[MimosaMornings]

I can understand selling and getting the heck out of midtown. I don’t think I could handle making a decision on buying another condo that quick, I’d probably feel safer moving in with a family member. I wouldn’t want to be alone, no matter how much security/cameras/etc.
JMO

 

[CLGM]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

A gang initiation killing would make some sense and would be a reason why LE doesn't have a lot to go on -- multiple people attacking, code of silence, experienced at committing a crime, clearing and fleeing the scene. Did some googling about MS13 -- this would be a particularly brazen, out-of-bounds killing even for them. Most involve killing rival gang members. If this were a gang initiation or something to move up the ladder, it seems like it would be part of a huge dispute between gangs at a much higher level than just locally and by upper leadership -- a signal from one gang to another: we're crazy enough to do this, and we'll do this to you, too -- IMO. Sort of like a "we own Atlanta" so don't even try to move into this territory. IMO

 

[dotr]

[QUOTE="foragerhan, post: 17285901, member: 292781"
Do we really think increasing the reward money to whatever arbitrary number people want it to be will really help? I'm not trying to be an ******* here. Does reward money really increase incentive? I wonder if there are any statistics regarding this.[/QUOTE]
rbsbm.
Do Cash Rewards For Crime Tips Work?
2019 rbbm.
''Pfleger says they've had some success — paying out rewards in nearly 30 Chicago cases after arrests were made and police verified the information was useful. He says in other instances, rewards haven't worked but it's important to continue to offer them.
"I've had people, three years after a murder, come with the reward flyer crumpled up that they've kept all that time and they say, 'I'll talk.' So whenever," Pfleger says.''
''Loyola University criminologist Arthur Lurigio co-authored an evaluation of Crime Stoppers during its early years.
"Our studies showed that it was getting an award that mattered, not so much the exact award figure," Lurigio says. It's impossible, Lurigio says, to determine how much of a factor Crime Stoppers' rewards play since tips and payouts are anonymous.
He says even with a reward, people are often hesitant to report a crime if it can cost them. For example, he says, some don't want to be considered a snitch by turning in a relative, neighbor or friend. And even if there's guarantee of anonymity, says Lurigio, the person with incriminating information weighs the reward against the risk of possible retaliation.''

Do cash rewards actually help catch criminals?
2014
''Graphic pictures of horrifying injuries and interviews with inconsolable relatives are tactics police use to pull at the heart strings and attract witnesses. But, when it comes down to it, does cold hard cash prove just as effective?''
''So what is the point of offering rewards?
The reason behind putting up the sum of money is straightforward - to create greater media opportunities to glean vital information and help solve crimes.

In cases funded by the police - and therefore the taxpayer - cash rewards are more likely to be offered for "heinous types of crime", Mr Howe said.
"For anybody that has got that information it might just be the trigger or tipping point for them to come forward," says Nick Howe, a former chief superintendent with Staffordshire Police and now a criminologist at the University of Derby
And yet, the fact is, where rewards are on offer, very few people ever claim them.''

 

[Jade]

This was a pit bull, someone had balls to do this.

Bowie is an American Staffordshire type to me rather than a stereotypical pit bull.

He looks like a sweet, friendly, medium size dog that doesn’t weigh much like a beefy, wide muzzled pit bull type.


I guess it’s thought a dog deters because it will presumably set up an alarm and complicate matters during an assault.

A regular house dog can be as startled and as taken aback as the victim in a blitz attack, imo.


Unless the dog is trained as a guard at command or to perceive inferred threat where are they going to get the knowledge to attack sufficiently?


It seems a dear, babied, house pet living in a friendly city, going to the park, eating in restaurants has a frame of reference of positive interactions.


The Groene’s dogs were well-known to be unfriendly to the extent LE decided the perp was acquainted to the family because the dogs [large pit bull type iirc] even came at the neighbors.

Turns out it was a random passerby perv who caught sight of a target, the kids, from the road and came back in the night to kill and kidnap.
When confronted by the brazen perp with a gun pointed at them the dogs, which had charged at him in the dark house, ran and hid.

Relying on a pet for a task they may not have the constitution for after all probably isn't a good idea, imo.


All in my dog loving opinion

 

[Deleted member 298047]

Has LE searched this lake for a weapon possibly dumped?

The lake was searched the week of murder.

 

[dotr]

''Police said this wasn’t an ordinary murder scene.
July 28 2021 rbbm.
Extra patrols added after ‘gruesome’ murder of woman walking dog in Piedmont Park
“It’s a gruesome scene,” deputy police Chief Charles Hampton said.

Jones watched on Wednesday as divers went in and out of the lake at the park for hours. It appeared they were searching for evidence.

People using the park just couldn’t get over something like this happening there.

There were others who told Jones they had noticed a spike in violent crime in the area, and were taking precautions.

Parkgoers Rebecca and Gus, who did not give their last names, said they only go for a stroll in the park during certain hours.

“I don’t really walk late or night or early in the morning. I try to wait until there’s other people around,” Rebecca said.''

 

[cuffem]

Bowie is an American Staffordshire type to me rather than a stereotypical pit bull.

He looks like a sweet, friendly, medium size dog that doesn’t weigh much like a beefy, wide muzzled pit bull type.


I guess it’s thought a dog deters because it will presumably set up an alarm and complicate matters during an assault.

A regular house dog can be as startled and as taken aback as the victim in a blitz attack, imo.


Unless the dog is trained as a guard at command or to perceive inferred threat where are they going to get the knowledge to attack sufficiently?


It seems a dear, babied, house pet living in a friendly city, going to the park, eating in restaurants has a frame of reference of positive interactions.


The Groene’s dogs were well-known to be unfriendly to the extent LE decided the perp was acquainted to the family because the dogs [large pit bull type iirc] even came at the neighbors.

Turns out it was a random passerby perv who caught sight of a target, the kids, from the road and came back in the night to kill and kidnap.
When confronted by the brazen perp with a gun pointed at them the dogs, which had charged at him in the dark house, ran and hid.

Relying on a pet for a task they may not have the constitution for after all probably isn't a good idea, imo.


All in my dog loving opinion

I always thought it was instinct for a dog to protect their owner. I have a neighbor that has a corgi and every time she walks her she goes crazy barking at any little thing, loud and consistent.
I told her even though the dog is small no one would harm her because the dog is so loud and protective.
But later I realized that I used to look out the window when she would bark like there was a threat and then I just stopped looking and ignored it. I think people might ignore barking dogs sometimes as just being a nuisance .

 

[Deleted member 298047]

A timeline would be really helpful! I have followed this case from the start and I don't even have a good sense of the timeline or any discrepancies.

11:30pm KJ visits partner at Henry's with dog
12:09am KJ seen on camera 4 min walk from Henry's headed North
12:15am KJ partner leaves work?
12:30am EC arrives home and doesn't find KJ
12:30am KJ partner repeatedly calls KJ her phone/texts-no response
KJ partner logs in to KJ Icloud account and uses findmyiphone app to locate KJ phone-sees Piedmont Park as phone locale
KJ partner rides bike to PP
EC enters at Charles Allen Ave entrance
EC sees Bowie and rushes to pick him up
EC looks for KJ and sees her/checks for pulse
1:11am EC makes 911 call
EC questioned 3 hours in PP police car
EC transported to APD for further questioning 3 hours
EC and JC give interview 38 hours later
*more interviews can be found by internet search

 

[dotr]

11:30pm KJ visits partner at Henry's with dog
12:09am KJ seen on camera 4 min walk from Henry's headed North
12:15am KJ partner leaves work?
12:30am EC arrives home and doesn't find KJ
12:30am KJ partner repeatedly calls KJ her phone/texts-no response
KJ partner logs in to KJ Icloud account and uses findmyiphone app to locate KJ phone-sees Piedmont Park as phone locale
KJ partner rides bike to PP
EC enters at Charles Allen Ave entrance
EC sees Bowie and rushes to pick him up
EC looks for KJ and sees her/checks for pulse
1:11am EC makes 911 call
EC questioned 3 hours in PP police car
EC transported to APD for further questioning 3 hours
EC and JC give interview 38 hours later
*more interviews can be found by internet search

Thank you for the timeline Lislow! (not my fave activity)

 

[Jade]

I always thought it was instinct for a dog to protect their owner. I have a neighbor that has a corgi and every time she walks her she goes crazy barking at any little thing, loud and consistent.
I told her even though the dog is small no one would harm her because the dog is so loud and protective.
But later I realized that I used to look out the window when she would bark like there was a threat and then I just stopped looking and ignored it. I think people might ignore barking dogs sometimes as just being a nuisance .

Most socialized house dogs are companions with maybe other developed instincts such as responding to the sound of the treat bag opening, imo.


My bully breed would knock me down if a steak was offered. If he did happen to notice me in distress I think he would be confused, he’s never met a stranger, is a clown, what does he know besides trying to fling himself at them to join in play? Now if the perp were carrying a tv with a sheep displayed bully would bark.


IMO

 

[K.jill]

Bowie is an American Staffordshire type to me rather than a stereotypical pit bull.

He looks like a sweet, friendly, medium size dog that doesn’t weigh much like a beefy, wide muzzled pit bull type.


I guess it’s thought a dog deters because it will presumably set up an alarm and complicate matters during an assault.

A regular house dog can be as startled and as taken aback as the victim in a blitz attack, imo.


Unless the dog is trained as a guard at command or to perceive inferred threat where are they going to get the knowledge to attack sufficiently?


It seems a dear, babied, house pet living in a friendly city, going to the park, eating in restaurants has a frame of reference of positive interactions.


The Groene’s dogs were well-known to be unfriendly to the extent LE decided the perp was acquainted to the family because the dogs [large pit bull type iirc] even came at the neighbors.

Turns out it was a random passerby perv who caught sight of a target, the kids, from the road and came back in the night to kill and kidnap.
When confronted by the brazen perp with a gun pointed at them the dogs, which had charged at him in the dark house, ran and hid.

Relying on a pet for a task they may not have the constitution for after all probably isn't a good idea, imo.


All in my dog loving opinion

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree and have been trying to think of how to put my thoughts into words.
Bowie does not look like a scary dog to me at all. And, he was a city dog. Was used to walking on city sidewalks with all kinds of people and scooters, bikes. He was probably used to hanging out on a bar patio and getting attention from strangers.
I think he did try to protect Katie but something happened that was quick and unexpected that incapacitated him.
I would like to know his injuries. Wondering if he was hit by a vehicle or tazed.

I hate thinking of what Katie and Bowie went thru.

 

[K.jill]

My Staffordshire terrier mix looks a lot like Bowie. She is protective of me like if someone she does not know well tries to hug me she will try to get in the middle of us but not in an aggressive way. Once we were walking on a city sidewalk and a man crossed over the street and passed us very closely, just an inch or two away. She was on leash and in front of me. As soon as he passed behind me she came from in front of me and lept at him. Tore his pants with her teeth. The front of his pants, at the knee. He had obviously passed by me and then turned around immediately right behind me. I suspect he was making some sort of move on me that he should not have. We have passed hundreds of people on the sidewalk and she has not reacted.
But there are sometimes she gets scared and looks to me for protection.

 

[K.jill]

Has LE searched this lake for a weapon possibly dumped?

Yes. The day after the murder there were pics of officers walking thru the lake. And they searched the park.

 

[Evan's Mom]

Bumping this from yesterday i think they may have been killed somewhere else. I know it seems crazy but this attack, the details we have learned.. if they attack happened where they were found someone should have seen or heard something. This attack took some time. They were found in a very public location. Also, there have not been any reports of witnesses seeing a blood soaked person in the area or a trail of blood leading away from the scene.

There is no way they were killed somewhere else and then taken to the park without being caught on camera at some point. PP is large enough that she *could* have been killed elsewhere in the park, but there would definitely be evidence to show that if that is what happened.

 

[Peppery]

My opinion on Bowie’s presence seems to be complete opposite to most here but I’ll share it anyway.

I also have a “oh so scary house hippo” pitbull and I suspect she has a similar temperament to Bowie. Mean looks and scary bark, but if approached with a high pitched “hi baby!”, melts into a puddle of love. MOST pit bulls are like this unless specifically trained to be aggressive. Their public persona does not match reality, and if you know, then you know. Nothing I’ve read about KJ or EC makes me think they encouraged aggressive behavior from him. In fact I think the exact opposite; that he was a well-trained, babied, cherished, well-socialized member of the family and comfortable meeting new people and being approached by strangers while on walks. Moo. Walking him if he wasn’t friendly would be a disaster waiting to happen.

This makes me think KJ and Bowie may have been approached by someone appearing friendly and who could’ve made a remark about how beautiful he was. I know pitbull lovers recognize each other as if part of some secret club not at all afraid of them and it instantly makes you feel like you have a bond in understanding these dogs when someone isn’t afraid. It happens to me all the time when we are out.

If that’s what happened, the perp had the perfect ruse to get very close to both of them without activating either fear response. He could reach down to pet Bowie and attack him before KJ even realized what was happening. Bowie may not have ever barked and KJ might not have screamed.

Have we heard anything about the number of ante-mortem wounds Bowie had? At the very beginning there was talk that Bowie might have the perp’s dna in his mouth. Was that confirmed?

All moo