GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #10

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something over the head would prevent blood splatter somewhat..............what a horrible death. I sure hope they find the perp
 
dancinunderthemoon said:
I dont know if it was ever determined by Sills sure that he was dragged inside from outside , I remember here it was discussed alot, , I remember there was a few feet of drag marks mentioned in an earlier article also that he could have just been moved or turned for better positioning, gross but wouldnt someone need to be on their back..........but bludgeoned could mean ONE HIT in the head that killed him couldnt' it? There was nothing to determine how bad he was hit or bludgeoned, then each article quote of sills flip flops, so IDK, ..............BUT yes the FBI was called due to the fact that SD was missing and mpossibly kidnapped, she was in green county when found? lived in putnam.............and IIRC, it was reported there was very little blood spatter in teh garage, and becasue so, determined he was beheaded after he was killed...........but if there was a gunshot to the head, there would be a blood splatter high and low and all over the cars etc if it happened in garage, why I think one hit to the head might not create spatter.....also, dont recall if there was any blood found outside, i dont think it could all be washed away could it? Would lumlnol detect it outside even after it was rinsed of obvious blood? Did Investigator do a luminol test inside and out?

guy33 post had me question some things
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You ask a lot of good questions and I don't have any answers. There was so much we talked about in the beginning but not much info was released. I don't remember what was verified and what was not.

How can an autopsy determine anything without the head? Could the actual decapitation be the trauma?
Sills said an autopsy performed on Russell Dermond concluded he died from cranial cerebral trauma
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He was killed sometime between Friday and Saturday afternoon and wasn't found until Tuesday. I don't remember if it had rained in between those times. Would that have made a difference in finding a death site or any blood if it had been washed away with a garden hose three or four days earlier? I don't remember if they even used luminol, or a search or cadaver dog?

He was supposedly seen Friday walking on the golf course which was near their house. The Friday paper was on the table and the crossword puzzle was being worked on. Was it worked on Friday or Saturday? Wan't she dressed and he was still in pjs and a robe?

According to this link, the mail from Saturday was still in the box. How did they know it was Saturday's mail and not from Friday, Monday or Tuesday?

Sorry I'm rambling but rereading this article did it to me.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Dermond-88-Putnam-County-2-May-2014-10/page52
 
watcher9 said:
You ask a lot of good questions and I don't have any answers. There was so much we talked about in the beginning but not much info was released. I don't remember what was verified and what was not.

How can an autopsy determine anything without the head? Could the actual decapitation be the trauma?


He was killed sometime between Friday and Saturday afternoon and wasn't found until Tuesday. I don't remember if it had rained in between those times. Would that have made a difference in finding a death site or any blood if it had been washed away with a garden hose three or four days earlier? I don't remember if they even used luminol, or a search or cadaver dog?

He was supposedly seen Friday walking on the golf course which was near their house. The Friday paper was on the table and the crossword puzzle was being worked on. Was it worked on Friday or Saturday? Wan't she dressed and he was still in pjs and a robe?

According to this link, the mail from Saturday was still in the box. How did they know it was Saturday's mail and not from Friday, Monday or Tuesday?

Sorry I'm rambling but rereading this article did it to me.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Dermond-88-Putnam-County-2-May-2014-10/page52
Click to expand...


BBM;

Neurotransmitters would be evident in both the spinal fluid and the blood especially in the heart. The chemicals that signal trauma and elicit "fight or flight" such as Adrenaline,, noradrenaline, etc are instantaneous and are responsible for how our body reacts to threats or injury.

JMO
 
watcher9 said:
You ask a lot of good questions and I don't have any answers. There was so much we talked about in the beginning but not much info was released. I don't remember what was verified and what was not.

How can an autopsy determine anything without the head? Could the actual decapitation be the trauma?


He was killed sometime between Friday and Saturday afternoon and wasn't found until Tuesday. I don't remember if it had rained in between those times. Would that have made a difference in finding a death site or any blood if it had been washed away with a garden hose three or four days earlier? I don't remember if they even used luminol, or a search or cadaver dog?

He was supposedly seen Friday walking on the golf course which was near their house. The Friday paper was on the table and the crossword puzzle was being worked on. Was it worked on Friday or Saturday? Wan't she dressed and he was still in pjs and a robe?

According to this link, the mail from Saturday was still in the box. How did they know it was Saturday's mail and not from Friday, Monday or Tuesday?

Sorry I'm rambling but rereading this article did it to me.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Dermond-88-Putnam-County-2-May-2014-10/page52
Click to expand...

I agree, lots of questions ...still..............I had also mentioned blood on the grounds, if washed away, would luminol detect it, did they even test outside I wonder
 
I do recall that they had determined he was dead before the decapitation, due to not so much blood in the garage but that doesn't explain bludgeoning unless it was just one hit but the articles and sills statements are never consistent, like I said too I think he's just as confused as the rest of us
 
Wonder if they saw any foot prints? it would be hard to not leave foot prints in the yard and even harder to cover them up. The reason I wonder is this might give them an idea as to how many were there, their entry and exit points etc. This could also tell them about the killer like his possible height and weight. Almost 3 years have passed and no real leads that we are aware of. The type of murder this was and no media (show ) has talked about it in well over a year.
 
hockeyguy33 said:
Wonder if they saw any foot prints? it would be hard to not leave foot prints in the yard and even harder to cover them up. The reason I wonder is this might give them an idea as to how many were there, their entry and exit points etc. This could also tell them about the killer like his possible height and weight. Almost 3 years have passed and no real leads that we are aware of. The type of murder this was and no media (show ) has talked about it in well over a year.
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Yeah it would be nice to know what to look out for, but in regards to foot print, didnt they find one very very early in the investigation? Or maybe it was speculation due to something LE or investigators were doing and not sure anything was determined, or reported by media if investigators actually had any prints

Hoping that someone would pop up in to the database, IF they have fingerprints or anything else
 
What kind and where would a footprint be visible outside 3 days after the fact? Unless the perp stepped in blood.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I found this old article that reviews info on the case.

Sills stepped out of the Suburban and stuck a Glock 18C in his waistband. He went in the house through the kitchen door, the same door the neighbor entered. Then he headed for an open door that led to a cramped two-car garage. The garage was dimly lit, but the white walls helped Sills see. On the floor between a Lincoln Town Car and a Lexus SUV was a man’s body on its back. The man’s age was hard to guess—because the body had no head. It had been cut off. And it was gone.
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We had already assumed it was a small garage for two cars and there wouldn't be much room in between the two cars to behead someone. But, for some reason I had always been thinking that the garage door was open when his body was discovered, but this sounds like it was closed when SS got there since it was dimly lit in the daytime.

and
What blood there was—a considerable amount—had pooled and dried near the body.
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First off, I thought there wasn't much blood in the garage. And, if someone was being beheaded in the garage between two cars, wouldn't the blood be splattered all over? This sounds more like the blood was bleeding out from one area while the body was lying down.

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/
 
I don't remember now how long it takes the blood to 'gel' so that bleeding stops. Immediately after death, there would definitely be blood from a beheading. Simply because blood pools, so the open veins, and arteries from the missing head would allow the blood to seep out.

Now if a person was alive, with a beating heart, the blood would spurt out with each beat of the heart.

There are closed head injuries which would kill someone. With the head missing, and not seeing the crime scene, I don't know. I thought I remember there being blood splatter, but it's been so long that I've forgotten what few facts I did know. :(

Him between the cars, then I can see why it's believed the body was moved. Otherwise there should have been dented areas on at least one if not both vehicles, as well as blood splatter on both. I don't remember reading about any damage to either car though.
 
From what I remember the only mention of blood was by the car I could be mistaken. Sills made it sound like the house was so clean you could eat off the floors and I also take that to mean there was no blood so I think we could probably rule out the gun theory as that would splatter blood. I am thinking the murder was done in the garage where they found him. Sills and his detectives know exactly where this happened he has to. If he was killed in one of the rooms there would have been some traces of blood even if they thoroughly cleaned after. Sills I think is giving us misinformation either because he already knows who did this but can't prove it or he's waiting to hear exactly what happened from a witness. This just doesn't add up the way Sills puts out the information I know he can fill in the blanks but yet he chooses not to. He knows where the body was when he was killed and he knows the weapon that was used but he's letting us guess. He also knows whether they came by boat or by car or both. He knows about how many people were there too. He says he has all matters of forensic evidence yet no suspect? It's coming up on 3 years and this case is as cold as an iceberg
 
Maybe Sills is just bluffing, hoping someone will say or do something, because he has no idea who may have done this?
 
That could very well be the case because a 1st time criminal would never pull off a murder like this without leaving something behind. Hope this gets solved but as the 3rd year anniversary date approaches it's looking grim
 
watcher9 said:
We had already assumed it was a small garage for two cars and there wouldn't be much room in between the two cars to behead someone. But, for some reason I had always been thinking that the garage door was open when his body was discovered, but this sounds like it was closed when SS got there since it was dimly lit in the daytime.
Click to expand...

The county's sketch shows a 23'x23' garage. That's not that small. There would be some open room there even with two large cars inside.
 
That leaves plenty of room in the garage cars about 5 to 6 feet wide each =12 feet leaving 11 feet on the side 3 feet between each car and the sides and 5 in the middle plenty of room
 
2Hope4 said:
I don't remember now how long it takes the blood to 'gel' so that bleeding stops. Immediately after death, there would definitely be blood from a beheading. Simply because blood pools, so the open veins, and arteries from the missing head would allow the blood to seep out.

Now if a person was alive, with a beating heart, the blood would spurt out with each beat of the heart.

There are closed head injuries which would kill someone. With the head missing, and not seeing the crime scene, I don't know. I thought I remember there being blood splatter, but it's been so long that I've forgotten what few facts I did know. :(

Him between the cars, then I can see why it's believed the body was moved. Otherwise there should have been dented areas on at least one if not both vehicles, as well as blood splatter on both. I don't remember reading about any damage to either car though.
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moved? moved maybe before the beheading, like he ws hit in the yard or house and was dragged to the garagew then beheaded? I dont see this happneing out in the yard, I've read opinions on how easy a beheading is, I think the worse part would have been taking him down. I think the beheading happened in the garage where he lay, I also remember there mention of very little blood splatter, as if there was some, but not enough to have been a shooting or serious bludgeoning so like Hockyguy says, conflicting information, but either Sills is stupid or he's playing cat and mouse. I think someone in the community could help if there were straight facts and more info. I sure hope Sills doesnt' investigate the way he shares info to the media, SMH, AND, I hate reading all the dramatic articles like he's a superstar and that he owns eveyrone and these crimes, this is serious, not drama series for tv... so frustrating............the family sure is laying low still, that's weird to me
 
dancinunderthemoon said:
..the family sure is laying low still, that's weird to me
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(snipped by me) Maybe they trust LE is doing everything possible. Maybe they are just quiet private people. Not everyone wants to go interveiws or talk on tv. Maybe their health is poor. There could be many reasons.
 
colette said:
(snipped by me) Maybe they trust LE is doing everything possible. Maybe they are just quiet private people. Not everyone wants to go interveiws or talk on tv. Maybe their health is poor. There could be many reasons.
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Are there any updates on this case, I have not found any. I do know Putnam County has seen their share of murders/strange deaths since this one. As of late their are certain connections to other cases at least it seems they ran in the same circles; real estate agent, (lived close by, was drinking, fell off dock and drowned)?, a Judge, (suicide), a former club owner, antique store, connected to Art Exhibits, (murdered), Wife of Popular Attorney in Atlanta (owned home in Putnam County), shot in back by husband who was in backseat, died at hospital, investigation into death, (husband has been charged), murder or accidental shooting? All connected to money and wealth, some ties to leader of Nuwabian compound in Putnam, who is serving time in prison where GBI and law enforcement were also connected. STRANGE!! This site needs to active...
 
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