GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

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about the Dermonds Lawn, there was very little grass IIRC, most was beds with pinestraw.........NOW I AGREE, he didnt do THAT, its a big job and im sure he couldnt do that easily

this is why i said he may have had periodic lawn help with the beds, or once a year or every other year...... but little grass there to deal with IIRC

SS stated he interviewed lawn crew at GW subdivision IIRC
 
Didn't they have a 2 story screen covering the lanais of the home? Maybe I'm imagining that.

It must be $200 a month for Homeowners fee. If paid quarterly it would be $800 per quarter. Yearly, that's $3200. Those fees would go toward security and Guard gate, road maintenance (since the roads were private), plantings in the common areas (Not on individuals yards), care and upkeep of the common landscape
areas, management fees and who knows what all else.

Some gated communities may have periodic assessments if the HOA runs out of money.

Not sure what you mean by "neighbors aren't like that." I can assure you that if it effects the neighbor's home in any negative way, it can be an issue and things can get dicey.
No razz, their screen porch was 2 or 3 steps up to the main level and by the driveway entrance to garage

when you walk thru the screened porch, you end up on the second level deck in back due to the sloped lot

underneath that upper deck is another patio comeing out from the basement

from the waters edge, it could appear that the screened porch was on the upper level becasue on the back side it aligned with the upper porch/deck
 
Also, from what I understand, Mrs D. did her own housekeeping and supposedly the place was immaculate.

I really can't relate as my husband and I were in a big home (size of Dermonds but no stairs) and no way could I keep the house immaculate. And now, in a smaller home, I still can't keep up.

Mr. and Mrs. D. had to be the Energizer bunnies and/or they kept a tight rein on expenditures.
 
What is a "RELEASE" on clerk of court by WElls Fargo?

Not sure but it could have to do with a mortgage, loan, foreclosure or lawsuit. Not posting a link because it would show someone's name but this involved Wells Fargo as an appellant.

The agreement also contained a clause in which the parties purported to release each other from any causes of action in law or in equity that arose before the agreement.

HOW about LIEN, which could be Les Pendins even, however that is spelled but was paid off or caught up, looks like a zero balance now

thank you!

WHAT ARE YALL TALKING ABOUT? RUssell and SHirley Dermond had no lien on THEIR HOUSE!

somebody in the family did on theirs at one time

As there are pages of posts referencing Wells Fargo, Lien, Les pendins, etc., can we confirm this has nothing to do with property where RD was found murdered? If not, I really think this topic has derailed the thread somewhat! :confused:
 


Why is my name attached to a quote I didn’t make? Also thanks for confirming everything I said about the neighbors, pool and HOA. I’m glad we agree on all those things.

I haven’t been talking about a lien. I asked if it was a small claims suit because I haven’t seen the document.
 
The Dermonds more than likely had the house paid off when it was built i'd focus more on the kids who took over the business and who seemed to dissolve the business to start another business and from what I saw a ways back it's not a very lucrative business .
 
The Dermonds more than likely had the house paid off when it was built i'd focus more on the kids who took over the business and who seemed to dissolve the business to start another business and from what I saw a ways back it's not a very lucrative business .
If...the kids were really interested in money, why not go after the security company that was operating with a broken camera? Seems like
the HOA could be liable too.

Ok. I'm going to drop this, but...
even though the Dermond house was probably paid for, the constant maintenance and upkeep of a home that size would be enormous. And, it just doesn't make sense why a couple that age with mobility issues would build such a monstrosity with all those stairs in the first place. Okay, moving on now.
 
The Dermonds more than likely had the house paid off when it was built i'd focus more on the kids who took over the business and who seemed to dissolve the business to start another business and from what I saw a ways back it's not a very lucrative business .
They must be doing good, didn't the one or two older sons buy two "First Watch" franchises? Very popular restaurant. My favorite breakfast place.
 
If...the kids were really interested in money, why not go after the security company that was operating with a broken camera? Seems like
the HOA could be liable too.

Ok. I'm going to drop this, but...
even though the Dermond house was probably paid for, the constant maintenance and upkeep of a home that size would be enormous. And, it just doesn't make sense why a couple that age with mobility issues would build such a monstrosity with all those stairs in the first place. Okay, moving on now.
I would think at the time they bought their home they were feeling good but the last 10 years they should have been in a 55 and over community or a condo/townhome that takes care of everything. Maybe they got often visits from family thus the big home.
 
I'm sure Mr D being a golfer until recently probably once he couldn't golf anymore he decided it's time to start preparing for assisted living. Maybe a suspect could be a possible realtor he turned down. There a lot of money in commission to be lost at 3% or 6% whatever the rate is around those parts. I remember reading or hearing the Dermonds were getting rid of things in the months before. Could they have had an aggressive realtor angry at them? Possible I guess
 
I thought I had read that RD had stopped golfing several years before he was murdered though? SD on the other hand, was said by SS to have frailties (I forget the word he used).. she may have been starting to fail.. couldn't go up and down the stairs any more, nor walk to the dock/water.. I'm sure they *were* planning on selling very soon..
 
This case is so frustrating...for me I'm most interested in possible motives, and what was planned/unplanned, because that is enlightening to me as far as motives go, and once we have that it helps to narrow suspects. Unfortunately there are so many elements and aspects of this case that we know only limited info about, which makes it difficult to determine what was planned vs what was the result of bad luck/sloppiness. I've ended up in the bucket of an overall planned crime, with some aspects that were improvised/didn't turn out the way the killers thought or planned. Here's my running list of elements and my thoughts on planned/unplanned:
  • Overall: Planned. Given this wasn't an outright robbery, and there were elements of concealment of bodies and the time of day it occurred, I believe they went there with the intention of killing one or both Dermond's.
  • Killing of Russell: Definitely planned.
  • Killing of Shirley: Planned, but not as 100% certain as I am on Russell.
  • Shirley Being Taken By Boat: Planned. Seems like a lot of prep. Why, is the question, of course. Also - what is people's feeling on whether she was alive when she was carried or coerced onto the boat?
  • Shirley's Body Being Found: Unplanned. I definitely do not think that her body resurfacing was intended, at any point. The cinder blocks, etc., all speak to that to me and I just don't think they anticipated the gases, etc., rising. It definitely happens.
  • Russell Being killed/Left in Garage: I can't decide on this one. Did they intend to also dump his body and things went wrong? Or was the plan to leave him in the house? Did they not plan for things to happen in the garage? Did he run from the house out to the garage? Or from somewhere else into the garage? This may have been an inexperienced killer who thought that an elderly man would be an easy target only to have Russ fight back and causing him to abandon his/her plan and shoot Russ in a panic and then take the head either to conceal evidence or as revenge for messing up his plan.
  • Russell's Beheading: Not sure. Indications lean more towards that being unplanned to conceal evidence as others have suggested and speculated above, because honestly, who other than a psycho serial killer plans to behead their victim ahead of time? Plus the use of towels suggest they didn't anticipate blood or that amount of blood.

Scenario 1: Semi-Planned "Hit" by Inexperienced Lone Killer
Some of the elements above lead me to believe that the overall murder was planned, but that this was a somewhat inexperienced killer that found themselves out of their depths when unexpected things happened. Very likely a hired killer. Perhaps they thought the Dermonds would still be asleep, maybe they got lost on the way there and had to contend with daylight, perhaps one or both of them put up more of a fight than they ever thought, and that is why some of it just doesn't make sense. In this case, I theorize that the original plan was for both of them to be dumped in the lake and never to be found. However, the problem with this theory is that it makes my proposed motives harder to fit. If inheritance was the motive, no bodies takes years to resolve, 7 years to be declared dead, etc., Other motive would be straight up revenge by someone close to the family who would have reason to conceal the bodies, but it's hard to imagine that sore of rage against these two. I do think they came in by boat so it implies some familiarity with the area.

Scenario 2: Planned Murder by Experienced Double Killers

I think if some of the elements above were planned with an eye towards creating confusion, then the killer thought that evidence would point to them. Is there any gain in having Russel's body, but not Shirley's found? I remember early on that before her body was found there was some speculation that maybe she did it and ran off. If her body was never found, would that be a theory people might believe? Hair in Russell's hands (Maybe that was staged?) But I really doubt that anyone would believe that of an elderly woman, let alone those who actually knew Shirley, so I presume.

Scenario 3: Unplanned Murder by Random Home Invaders

I can't give much credence to this, but can't dismiss it outright. Nothing (that we know of) taken, having to use a boat, weighting down a body, seems all a bridge too far for an unplanned, spontaneous murder. And without robbery, what would the motive be?

Key Questions: I Wish I Knew the Answers To:

1. Is there any financial benefit or personal benefit to a killer to Russell's body being found and not Shirley's?
2. Is SS playing word games or semantics when he says the killing did not occur in the house - is he including the garage? I also can't imagine a broad daylight outdoor killing (like in the yard!?!) or transport of the bodies in morning light.
3. What were the relationships of the Dermond's with their children like? Any favorites or black sheep? Did the Dermond children get along?
4. Any financial troubles or addiction in the background of ANY relatives, near or far?

If I got any elements wrong or others have insights please offer them, I'm not as in the details as many of you!
 
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The one factor that confuses me is the killer must not have known about the seven year wait in declaring a missing person dead.

So, what was to be gained by weighing Shirley down and dropping her into the lake? Most likely she would have been dead by natural causes long before the seven years had passed.

Due to not knowing about this seven year wait, as well as not realizing how strong the gases would be in Shirley’s body, it makes me question if the killer(s) were young or just dumb.

In the world today, who wouldn’t have checked subjects like this out on the internet to get all the facts beforehand?
 
The one factor that confuses me is the killer must not have known about the seven year wait in declaring a missing person dead.

So, what was to be gained by weighing Shirley down and dropping her into the lake? Most likely she would have been dead by natural causes long before the seven years had passed.

Due to not knowing about this seven year wait, as well as not realizing how strong the gases would be in Shirley’s body, it makes me question if the killer(s) were young or just dumb.

In the world today, who wouldn’t have checked subjects like this out on the internet to get all the facts beforehand?
It does sound dumb.
 
The one factor that confuses me is the killer must not have known about the seven year wait in declaring a missing person dead.

So, what was to be gained by weighing Shirley down and dropping her into the lake? Most likely she would have been dead by natural causes long before the seven years had passed.

Due to not knowing about this seven year wait, as well as not realizing how strong the gases would be in Shirley’s body, it makes me question if the killer(s) were young or just dumb.

In the world today, who wouldn’t have checked subjects like this out on the internet to get all the facts beforehand?

I know. It's the one thing that makes me question my personal theory of the motive, the inheritance. Unless of course, they were an executor and would have access to the money during that time, and were content to wait as long as that inheritance didn't dwindle away in an expensive, upscale retirement community or elderly care facility, and it would help point away from the obvious motive.

Gah! This is truly one of the most puzzling cases I've followed on Websleuths, and that's saying a lot!!!
 
Researching this perplexing case and need help. I’ve listened to all the podcasts and read most of the posts in here but I’ve seen ref to something I need clarification on: the D’s home security system. Did BD tell SS that it had stopped functioning around Easter? Or did I make that up? Because if it was broken, then we literally have the world’s luckiest perp, with the one at the guard shack also down. Of course, it’s likely RD and SD would deactivate the alarm if they were home during the daytime, so it’s possible that even if it were working, it wouldn’t help us here. I haven’t seen anything about surveillance cameras at the house.

Also, I need this article but the link has expired: if anyone still has it and can post I would be so grateful:
http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html?sp=/99/148/
 
Researching this perplexing case and need help. I’ve listened to all the podcasts and read most of the posts in here but I’ve seen ref to something I need clarification on: the D’s home security system. Did BD tell SS that it had stopped functioning around Easter? Or did I make that up? Because if it was broken, then we literally have the world’s luckiest perp, with the one at the guard shack also down. Of course, it’s likely RD and SD would deactivate the alarm if they were home during the daytime, so it’s possible that even if it were working, it wouldn’t help us here. I haven’t seen anything about surveillance cameras at the house.

Also, I need this article but the link has expired: if anyone still has it and can post I would be so grateful:
http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html?sp=/99/148/

I didn't find the link you wanted, but did find several articles on a search. Maybe one of these articles will have the info you are searching for?

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