GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #13

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by KateB, May 16, 2015.

  1. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    It was previously posted that a forensic accountant (or the like) was reviewing this case. However, I haven't read another thing about it since. What happened with that??

    From all the reading I've done on these threads, it seems the majority of the posts (including mine) seem to question at least some (if not all) of the conclusions stated by SS.
     
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  2. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Nov 10 2020 rbbm.
    Briefs: 2014 Lake Oconee unresolved double murder featured on HLN; CNN ratings; Kevin Hart’s next Netflix special prepped in Atlanta
    ''The episode noted that this murder looked personal, so family members were suspects, but there were no viable links or motives regarding any of the children. There appeared to be no sour business associates from Russell’s past or clear financial irregularities. Forensic evidence did not clarify anything.

    A determined Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills continues to work the case. He believes whoever killed them did it on purpose. He said he needs someone who knows something to call him for this case to break. “I think about this case every day,” he said during the episode. “It’s a personal challenge.”

    The current reward leading to the arrest of the perpetrator or perpetrators is $55,300.''
     
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  3. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know WHO the forensic acct. did the investigative work on.

    I'd be interested in knowing who's financials statements were investigated. I don't believe they would find anything in the elders D's financial statements (personal and business). They need to look elsewhere.
     
  4. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    And for anyone other than the deceased, they would've needed either the express permission of the owner of said financials and/or a search warrant/ITO.. neither of which I would imagine they would have received. imo.
     
  5. Panniniclaus

    Panniniclaus Member

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    I am in agreement as well. What kind of financial state were some family members in? Would they hire someone to kill to get at the estate out of desperation? Nothing else makes sense...this was not explored in any way on the program.
     
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  6. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    So I guess this new technology discussion earlier in the year produced nothing helpful?

    New technology to be used in unsolved murder case

    And, SS's quote below... Should we assume this valuable evidence is DNA?

    “The towels belonged to the Dermonds and, yes, there was other evidence found at the scene, but I can’t go into any of that evidence,” Sills said. “I’ll just say that there was valuable evidence that we have yet to match up to anything.”
     
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  7. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    Another quote from your link.
    “We looked back over some of the crime scene photographs and talked about a lot of things during our meeting,” Sills said. “A lot of what we talked about concerning technology was about what is available today that wasn't available primarily then.”

    If we assume the DNA is the evidence, that would mean that they were able to separate some blood samples.

    What new technology has come about over the last six years? The main advancement that I know of is being able to link DNA to family lines through genealogy. Are there others?
     
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  8. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling this was pulled off by professionals. They won't be found in any data base....I doubt any "real" clues
    were left behind.
     
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  9. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Something I found interesting (to me) as I was sleuthing quite awhile ago. The two male family members had taken over RD's restaurant holdings, I believe long before RD was dead. I'm not sure what exactly they did with that. (???)

    They did however, buy into a different franchise, two years prior to the murders - October 30, 2012.

    At the time, the agreement was reported in the news to have been a multi-location agreement whereby the brothers agreed to open up two additional franchise locations, on top of the one in 2012, within three years.

    So, .... doing the math.... late 2012 is the first franchise.. three years later is late 2015... the clock was ticking. It takes awhile to source a good location, do the due diligence, possibly even build it from new.. and they needed to produce TWO more of them in that time span.

    Were there enough resources to adhere to the agreement of two more franchises by the timelines of the agreement, and if not, what would happen then? Nobody knows, except those privy to the details. I would think there would be some kind of substantial financial penalty if the 'multi' part of the agreement failed to be reached, which may reach back into the monetary arrangement made on the first location, ie 3-deal for x-amount, but if you renege on the remaining two, you'll owe THIS much on the 'single' location. It isn't just the franchise fees, it's a huge amount of money that gets laid out to open a food establishment - equipment, permits, inspections, training, staffing. One needs a good heft of cash to make it through until hopeful profitability is established. These are the types of details that I hope SS has followed up on!

    Fast forward... the second location opened September 12, 2016. It seems just short of four years after the first one. Although the 3-year timeline was breached (and especially considering there were to have been TWO more within that 3-year timeline), perhaps there was an amenable resolution, if the second was in the works by the 3 year deadline?

    For interest, the third location just opened in 2020.
     
  10. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    DNA has been around for I think 20 plus years now, and as far as I know.. the familial thing is the 'new' thing.. so if they do have something, they may be able to link it that way.. but what do they do if it's the same familial link as the victims.. how would they know whether it came from victim or murderer?
     
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  11. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    Great question! Honestly, you should post this on the Othram thread!

    Othram - General Discussion
     
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  12. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

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    This may sound too simple but since they have DNA from both sources, they would compare the unknown familial DNA against the known victims' (in this case the elder Ds) and they wouldn't match up. (Even though familial).
     
  13. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    Your answer sounds correct to me, Razz. What about (same sex) sibling DNA? I mean, is it fairly easy to determine which DNA is which (assuming they are not twins, of course).
     
  14. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    And, as I posted previously... I was hoping M-Vac technology might be utilized to extract DNA or other evidence from various sources - particularly Mrs. D's wet clothing.
     
  15. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reminder, meant to post this..
    [​IMG]
    M-Vac Systems
    Surface DNA Collection: Increase Surface DNA Collection Through Wet-Vacuum Sampling | M-Vac Systems, Inc
    ''We all know that even the best DNA processing equipment cannot amplify DNA that is not recovered in the sampling or collection process. The M-Vac® helps by simply collecting more DNA.

    What if traditional collection methods have already been used on an item? The M-Vac® is a valuable tool in those scenarios and can often result in conclusive profiles even after traditional methods have been used. It gives cases a second chance.

    For example, in an independent verification, after swabbing a saliva stain on cotton fabric, the M-Vac® was still able to collect 22X more saliva DNA. This shows that not only does the swab leave a significant amount of DNA material behind, but also that the M-Vac® System is more capable of collecting DNA material from porous surfaces.

    The M-Vac® System is also known as a wet-vacuum sampling device, a vacuum-assisted instrument, a forensics vacuum, a DNA recovery system and other descriptive terms in literature and news articles. The M-Vac® System is also effective in sampling meat or produce for pathogens, checking environments for bacterial contamination and assuring the absence of biohazards in biodefense.''

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...s-is-helping-police-solve-tough-murder-cases/

    Police in Draper, Utah, use the M-Vac machine in 2014 to search for DNA evidence in the 2012 slaying of 15-year-old Anne Kasprzak. (M-Vac Systems Inc.)

    ''As Jenny Carrieri pressed for progress in the homicide of her twin sister, most recently posting billboards in Baltimore seeking clues, she learned of the M-Vac: a wet-vacuum machine that can extract DNA from rough or porous surfaces and lead investigators to previously unknown suspects. The M-Vac has identified killers and other suspects in crimes across the country, helped free one man who had been wrongly imprisoned for 20 years for murder, and is being used in Florida to find DNA evidence on boats authorities think were used in human trafficking.''
     
  16. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  17. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

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    I believe same sex siblings would also be different.
     
  18. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Yes true.. but even if they had DNA from a familial, would they know if it arrived at time of murders or sometime prior to that, say during a visit?
     
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  19. Razz

    Razz Well-Known Member

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    That would certainly be the familial defense. But a lot would depend on the type of DNA found and where it was located. IE: familial blood at the crime scene
     
  20. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    No idea if this would work, but was thinking about it in the other bizarre double murder..

    Let's say familial dna is there because the person had previously been in the house- but wondering if dna PLUS fabric remnants are present, could that prove the person was there when the murders were committed, if the clothing worn on that particular day, prove a match to the fibers at the crime scene?
    speculation.
     

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