GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 8

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oceanblueeyes said:
I don't think Russ' murder was planned. I think it is like other cases where a robber is caught by homeowners and the homeowners are murdered to silence any witnesses that can send the armed robbers away to prison for a long time even life.

The only difference in this case IMO is this armed robber knew the Dermonds casually in someway and knew they were elderly people who lived alone leading them to believe their home was an easy target.

I have even thought if they were murdered late in the afternoon of the Derby party the robber may have picked this time thinking they had ridden with their friends to the party and wouldn't be home. But he guessed wrong and they were home and they did catch him inside of their garage. Imo He may have originally gone there thinking they kept lots of cash on hand or even had a safe.

I think he killed Russ in a panic by shooting him at point blank range in the head and then he told Shirley if she didn't comply to his demands he would kill her too. I think he bound and gagged her in the garage where she couldn't escape nor scream out.

Then he started thinking how he could stage the murder of Russ to make it appear like something it really wasn't. And Shirley's supposed 'disappearance' was staged also. He thought if he staged it to look like a hit by a hit man who had abducted Shirley and taken her with him..it would throw LE off so they wouldn't suspect this was really a robbery gone bad by someone they knew instead.

I think once they found him in their garage Russ and Shirley told him they were going to call the cops and one of them may have even tried to turnaround to go retrieve their phone and he was not going to let that happen and that is when he shot Russ.

Neither one of the victims had any other trauma to the rest of their body other than the head trauma that caused their deaths. So this makes me think this all came about without any warning which wouldn't have given either of them a chance to defend themselves.

He couldn't rob them of anything nor would he. He was going to great effort of staging the murders to look like a hit man did all of this and not done by a home invasion robber who knew the Ds.

IMO
Click to expand...

Mornin Ocean... New Moon tonight.. Ironically May 2 & 3/2014 was a Crescent moon phase..Imo, this heinous crime was not only pre-planned, but meticulously planned and executed to send a message; a message of retribution to Sheriff Sills, Judge Royal, the entire Putnam County Justice System, as well as the community... Observing SS's defeated demeanor, as well as his wording in the latest Eatonton Messenger article speaks volumes, imo...

'The writing is on the wall and the Devil is in the details'...
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...s/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land?page=0,1

Gonna play DA with your reply..

RE: RD's murder/decapitation & removal of head unplanned
* Crescent moon, security gatehouse cameras inoperable, decapitation, lack of blood, Derby party, increased traffic in RP/GW
* SD's body located in another police jurisdiction/linkage blindness
* Perp/s likely knew that D's did not have a K9..
* Perp/s likely had rope/zip ties/handcuffs and weapon/s
* Multiple crime scenes

RE: Home/D's Easy target/s
*Dermond's home was equipped with an Security Alarm System. A Sec System sign would have been visible/deterrent. Alarm system keypads have a panic button to alert police(usually near entrance/front door). Most homes have multiple AS keypads. Was the D's alarm system disabled on, or prior to May 2/2014?

Imo, it takes a very evil person/creature to kill another human being with blunt force trauma. SK Gary Hilton described chaining her to a tree, and then killing Meredith Emerson, in this manner while using a tire tool. He described it as analogous to striking a basketball and said that he struck her numerous times before she succumbed.
GMH described the murder and decapitation as surreal..
 
I just bought two ceiling fan down rods. They could be used for weapons. And they'd leave an unusual pattern. I think RD was shot and the bullet would point to someone/ weapon.

My great grandmother taught me there are no coincidences in life. She lived to 99.
My grandmother read the obituaries daily. She lived to 99. My mother reads them,too. She's 92. And I have read them since I could read. Small town southern life required it in a time when everybody knew everybody. You had to fry the chicken and make a pie to take to the grieving family.

Reading obituaries and googling have taken me on 2 interesting paths, that do not involve the D family members. I cannot discuss here but I continue to add links to my chain. There are no coincidences.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I don't think Russ' murder was planned. I think it is like other cases where a robber is caught by homeowners and the homeowners are murdered to silence any witnesses that can send the armed robbers away to prison for a long time even life.

I COULD BELIEVE THIS, BUT THE BEHEADING! I JUST CANT BELIEVE SOMEONE COULD DO THAT WITHOUT INTENDING TO DO IT. PURPOSING TO DO IT. WOULDN'T SOMEONE WHO HAD PRESUMABLY NEVER DECAPITATED A HUMAN BEFORE AND WHO DID NOT INTEND TO DO SO BUT WAS FORCED BY CIRCUMSTANCES TO DO SO HAVE "LOST HIS LUNCH" THEREFORE LEAVING HIS DNA? UNLESS DRUGGED UP. MAYBE SO.

The only difference in this case IMO is this armed robber knew the Dermonds casually in someway and knew they were elderly people who lived alone leading them to believe their home was an easy target.

HE COULD HAVE KNOWN THEM CASUALLY OR VERY WELL. WELL ENOUGH TO HATE THEM WITH A VENGEANCE. THEREFORE HAVING THE STOMACH TO PERFORM AN UNPLANNED DECAPITATION.

I have even thought if they were murdered late in the afternoon of the Derby party the robber may have picked this time thinking they had ridden with their friends to the party and wouldn't be home. But he guessed wrong and they were home and they did catch him inside of their garage. Imo He may have originally gone there thinking they kept lots of cash on hand or even had a safe.

HMMM... SO MAYBE INSTEAD OF THE D.'s MISSING THE PARTY BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN DETAINED OR MURDERED, THEY ACTUALLY WERE DETAINED OR MURDERED BECAUSE THEY MISSED THE PARTY. SO WHY WOULD THEY HAVE MISSED THE PARTY? COULD THEY HAVE BEEN EXPECTING THIS VISITOR? MAYBE AN UNPLANNED VISIT OF WHICH THEY RECEIVED SHORT NOTICE AND DECIDED TO SKIP THE PARTY OR MAYBE GO BUT AFTER GREETING THE VISITOR. COULD THEY HAVE GREETED THE VISITOR'S ARRIVAL? WOULDN'T FIT INTO YOUR THEORY OF A ROBBER BEING CAUGHT WHILE THINKING THE DERMONDS WERE AWAY. SO, I DONT KNOW. I DONT KNOW IF I BELIEVE THE CALLERS TESTIMONY OF SEEING A MAN ON THE PROPERTY ON SATURDAY AFTERNOON, BUT IF THAT IS FACTUAL, THEN MAYBE IT WAS NEAR THE TIME OF THE PARTY. MAYBE HE WASNT HIDING, HE WAS IN VIEW, BECAUSE HIS PRESENCE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN UNEXPECTED. HE BELONGED THERE FOR SOME REASON. MAYBE HE DIDNT INTEND TO MURDER, SO AT THE TIME OF BEING VISIBLE IN THE YARD, HE HAD NO REASON TO BE HIDING.

I think he killed Russ in a panic by shooting him at point blank range in the head and then he told Shirley if she didn't comply to his demands he would kill her too. I think he bound and gagged her in the garage where she couldn't escape nor scream out.

I HAVE WONDERED IF MRS. DERMOND MAY HAVE BEEN KILLED BY BLUNT FORCE INJURY TO THE HEAD WITH A GUN. MAYBE THE MURDERER HIT HER VERY HARD WITH THE GUN. MAYBE SHE HAD TURNED AWAY FROM HIM TO GO GET A PHONE OR TO JUST GET AWAY. THEN HE SHOT MR. DERMOND INSTEAD OF HITTING HIM. THUS NO NEED TO BE CARRYING MULTIPLE WEAPONS AND LESS TO LEAVE AT THE SCENE. MAYBE BE USED SOMETHING BELONGING TO THE DERMONDS, SOMETHING ALREADY AT THE HOME TO DO THE DECAPITATION.

Then he started thinking how he could stage the murder of Russ to make it appear like something it really wasn't. And Shirley's supposed 'disappearance' was staged also. He thought if he staged it to look like a hit by a hit man who had abducted Shirley and taken her with him..it would throw LE off so they wouldn't suspect this was really a robbery gone bad by someone they knew instead.

THAT ^ IS THE PART I HAVE TROUBLE ENVISIONING. I JUST CANT CONCEIVE OF A ROBBER BEING THAT CALCULATING. BUT, I AM NOT A ROBBER OR A MURDERER.

I think once they found him in their garage Russ and Shirley told him they were going to call the cops and one of them may have even tried to turnaround to go retrieve their phone and he was not going to let that happen and that is when he shot Russ.

I CAN SEE THIS HAPPENING FOR SURE. I BET IT WAS MRS. D AND HE HIT HER AT THAT POINT. I THINK IF HE HAD SHOT MR. D FIRST THEN HE WOULD HAVE JUST SHOT MRS. D ALSO.

Neither one of the victims had any other trauma to the rest of their body other than the head trauma that caused their deaths. So this makes me think this all came about without any warning which wouldn't have given either of them a chance to defend themselves.

MRS. D. HIT WITH THE GUN THEN MR. D. SHOT FROM SOME DISTANCE.

He couldn't rob them of anything nor would he. He was going to great effort of staging the murders to look like a hit man did all of this and not done by a home invasion robber who knew the Ds.

HE NOW HAD TWO BODIES TO DEAL WITH AND WHATEVER HE CAME FOR WAS INSIGNIFICANT COMPARED TO THE PROBLEM HE NOW HAD ON HIS HANDS.


IMO
Click to expand...

Just pondering your theory (in caps, not to yell but to differentiate my words from yours). All MOO of course.
 
I don't know if starting a list of what we think we know about the killer(s) will help us much, but it would be interesting to see what all we come up with. Anyway, here's a few things to start.

Trying to list what we think we know about the killer.

1. Killer knew the Dermond's. - Per Sheriff Sills, no forced entry.

2. Killer is an experienced hunter. - Per Sheriff Sills, decapitation of Mr. Dermond.

3. Killer is intelligent/cunning. - Killer has muddied the investigation.

4. Killer is physically fit. - The decapitation of Mr. Dermond and removal of Mrs. Dermond.

5. Killer lives in community. - Killer knows LO/GW well, killer knew Dermond's.
 
Foxfire said:
Mornin Ocean... New Moon tonight.. Ironically May 2 & 3/2014 was a Crescent moon phase..Imo, this heinous crime was not only pre-planned, but meticulously planned and executed to send a message; a message of retribution to Sheriff Sills, Judge Royal, the entire Putnam County Justice System, as well as the community... Observing SS's defeated demeanor, as well as his wording in the latest Eatonton Messenger article speaks volumes, imo...

'The writing is on the wall and the Devil is in the details'...
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...s/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land?page=0,1

Gonna play DA with your reply..

RE: RD's murder/decapitation & removal of head unplanned
* Crescent moon, security gatehouse cameras inoperable, decapitation, lack of blood, Derby party, increased traffic in RP/GW
* SD's body located in another police jurisdiction/linkage blindness
* Perp/s likely knew that D's did not have a K9..
* Perp/s likely had rope/zip ties/handcuffs and weapon/s
* Multiple crime scenes

RE: Home/D's Easy target/s
*Dermond's home was equipped with an Security Alarm System. A Sec System sign would have been visible/deterrent. Alarm system keypads have a panic button to alert police(usually near entrance/front door). Most homes have multiple AS keypads. Was the D's alarm system disabled on, or prior to May 2/2014?

Imo, it takes a very evil person/creature to kill another human being with blunt force trauma. SK Gary Hilton described chaining her to a tree, and then killing Meredith Emerson, in this manner while using a tire tool. He described it as analogous to striking a basketball and said that he struck her numerous times before she succumbed.
GMH described the murder and decapitation as surreal..
Click to expand...

Whoever did this is beyond evil...we can easily agree on that. One question that still bothers me is why the Dermonds? If someone was trying to send a message to SS and Putnam County judicial system...why choose them among so many thousands of residents...many of whom are elderly, wealthy and live in GW or RP areas. There is nothing about them to make someone choose them to send a message to law enforcement. I can't make sense out of that...it seems much more personal than that to me.
 
If anyone is still wondering of the fisherman received the reward for finding Mrs. D's body, the answer is no:

On May 14, the FBI posted a reward of “up to $20,000 for information leading to the location of Shirley Wilcox Dermond and/or the arrest of the individual(s) responsible for her disappearance.” (sounds to me he should have gotten the money because he gave information leading to the location of Shirley)

Putnam County resident Dennis Higgs, who called in his discovery of her body May 16, spoke to local media about his intention to claim that reward, but it appears he may not have met with much success.

“While the FBI refrains from publicizing details of reward payouts in ongoing criminal cases, it would be accurate to say that a significant portion of the FBI reward offered for information leading to the arrest of those responsible for the abduction and murder of Mrs. Dermond remains available,” Special Agent Stephen Emmett of the Atlanta Bureau said in response to an email request for information June 4.
Click to expand...

http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_18a6d130-fc94-11e3-a76a-0019bb2963f4.html?success=

I'm so obsessed with this case that I subscribed to the Eatonton Messenger online for a year. . . I hope the case is solved before next year. About drove my husband batty. Didn't have anyone else to talk to the case about. He wasn't too enthused about discussing the details, but thought the head was taken to prove Mr. D was dead. That's about all I could get out of him.
 
"Sills said that, while “there is nothing new, no new developments” in the case, the investigation is continuing – and will continue until it is resolved.


“We are still going over phone records,” he said. “People don’t understand how much is involved in phone records.


“There are certain people we are looking at, checking their whereabouts, but this is nothing like on TV.


“We see a phone number and figure out who that belongs to,” then check the phone calls that individual has made, which generates another list of numbers to run down – a time-consuming process because court orders are required.


He said there was “no federal crime we are aware of now, no federal nexus we know of.”


“Now our court orders and warrants are from superior court,” he added, noting, “I have gotten search warrants” – at least one in addition to the warrant to search the Dermond’s home, but he would not elaborate.


Early in the investigation, when Shirley Dermond was missing and presumed abducted, federal agents were involved more heavily in the case, he said; with her body found in Georgia, some of those concerns abated.


“If later we find she was kidnapped for money, that could be a federal crime,” he said."


http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_18a6d130-fc94-11e3-a76a-0019bb2963f4.html?success=2
 
Solitaryone said:
I don't know if starting a list of what we think we know about the killer(s) will help us much, but it would be interesting to see what all we come up with. Anyway, here's a few things to start.

Trying to list what we think we know about the killer.

1. Killer knew the Dermond's. - Per Sheriff Sills, no forced entry.

2. Killer is an experienced hunter. - Per Sheriff Sills, decapitation of Mr. Dermond.

3. Killer is intelligent/cunning. - Killer has muddied the investigation.

4. Killer is physically fit. - The decapitation of Mr. Dermond and removal of Mrs. Dermond.

5. Killer lives in community. - Killer knows LO/GW well, killer knew Dermond's.
Click to expand...

6. Killer knew the cameras were not working. - Could have inside knowledge as a former guard at RP/GW.
 
Thought this was an interesting comment from SS:

"Sills said it appears “nobody locally knows anything” about the decapitation death of the 88-year-old retiree and the blunt force head trauma that killed his 87-year-old wife."

http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_18a6d130-fc94-11e3-a76a-0019bb2963f4.html?success=2

Nobody locally knows anything about the murders, so where does he think the people who know are located.

"Sills has said he believes the couple was killed May 2-3 with two different weapons, that they were specifically targeted rather than the victims of random violence, and that at least part of the crime involved access to the Dermonds’ million-dollar home by boat."

Hmmmmm..... Targeted and not victims of random violence! What did the Dermonds have possession of that would make them targets? Money, secrets, valuable collection of coins, guns, art....... I'm at a loss.
 
My two cents: The Derby party was probably a neighborhood get-together, probably very casual. There was no club-sponsored Derby party other than a Derby watching happy hour at one of the clubhouses that did not require an RSVP. Nobody around here is a big bettor at little events like that. $10, maybe. Reynolds members were known as CARP's at the Ritz until management banned that expression. Stands for Cheap *advertiser censored* Reynolds People.

Don't believe the security camera not working was a factor.

She was weighted down--local talk. Put this down to gossip if you will.

I believe K D knew absolutely nothing about the Nuwaubians. His remark was a "grasping at straws" statement.
 
Bootsctr said:
Hmmmmm..... Targeted and not victims of random violence! What did the Dermonds have possession of that would make them targets? Money, secrets, valuable collection of coins, guns, art....... I'm at a loss.
Click to expand...

Maybe it was something they knew or something they were about to do.
 
Bootsctr said:
Thought this was an interesting comment from SS:

"Sills said it appears “nobody locally knows anything” about the decapitation death of the 88-year-old retiree and the blunt force head trauma that killed his 87-year-old wife."

http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_18a6d130-fc94-11e3-a76a-0019bb2963f4.html?success=2

Nobody locally knows anything about the murders, so where does he think the people who know are located.
Click to expand...

I would take that to mean that no one locally has heard anybody talking about being involved. I don't think he is saying that the killer is not local, and if he is local, Sills is saying he's not talking about it. Which is consistent with the idea the killer is intelligent, cunning and planned this for some time. Petty robbers talk (brag) to peers; intelligent, cunning planners keep it to themselves and probably get more satisfaction gloating over how they have everyone stumped. Loose lips sink ships, and this guy has his buttoned tightly.
 
lakeoconee said:
My two cents: The Derby party was probably a neighborhood get-together, probably very casual. There was no club-sponsored Derby party other than a Derby watching happy hour at one of the clubhouses that did not require an RSVP. Nobody around here is a big bettor at little events like that. $10, maybe. Reynolds members were known as CARP's at the Ritz until management banned that expression. Stands for Cheap *advertiser censored* Reynolds People.

Don't believe the security camera not working was a factor.

She was weighted down--local talk. Put this down to gossip if you will.

I believe K D knew absolutely nothing about the Nuwaubians. His remark was a "grasping at straws" statement.
Click to expand...

thank you. My thoughts on these topics are much the same.
 
lakeoconee said:
My two cents: The Derby party was probably a neighborhood get-together, probably very casual. There was no club-sponsored Derby party other than a Derby watching happy hour at one of the clubhouses that did not require an RSVP. Nobody around here is a big bettor at little events like that. $10, maybe. Reynolds members were known as CARP's at the Ritz until management banned that expression. Stands for Cheap *advertiser censored* Reynolds People.

.
Click to expand...

The party was held by a friend or friends. I read that in a news article. I don't have a link but definitely read that a friend was having the party. It didn't say where the party was but implied it was at a home.
 
Rhyolite said:
No wonder folks don't get motivated by these rewards. Clearly the finder pushed the investigation to a new level. If the body had further decomposed it would not have been found EVER.
Click to expand...

Go back and read the quote Bootsctr extracted in #67. It seems to suggest that the reward is dependent on either 1) finding the location of SD or 2) getting the perp arrested and that it is "up to" $20k. May well be that in the fine print, there are different reward amounts for differing levels of investigative importance. Finding a dead body may not be worth as much as a live one. Arresting the perp may be a higher reward level than finding a dead body.

To find out the fine print you would have to get information out of the FBI. Anyone ever had success with that?
 
lakeoconee said:
My two cents: The Derby party was probably a neighborhood get-together, probably very casual. There was no club-sponsored Derby party other than a Derby watching happy hour at one of the clubhouses that did not require an RSVP. Nobody around here is a big bettor at little events like that. $10, maybe. Reynolds members were known as CARP's at the Ritz until management banned that expression. Stands for Cheap *advertiser censored* Reynolds People.

Don't believe the security camera not working was a factor.

She was weighted down--local talk. Put this down to gossip if you will.

I believe K D knew absolutely nothing about the Nuwaubians. His remark was a "grasping at straws" statement.
Click to expand...

CARP's..... I'm sorry, but :rotfl: Reminds me of California Chrome's investors...
Dumb *advertiser censored* Investors....

I agree with you that "the party" was probably casual attire, but it was mentioned in an early article that the Dermonds had RSVP'd to attend, so at the very least the people who were giving the party wanted a head count as to how much food to prepare. Maybe they were preparing some fancy shrimp dish or a surf and turf meal with expensive wines. Maybe it was going to even be catered. If so, I would request my guests to RSVP too. You don't want food going to waste or overspend if you are being cost conscious. Again, the party probably is a red herring and means nothing.

Regarding the Nuwaubians, treading very lightly here, how many locals are familiar with the cult? It seems as much trouble they caused a lot of locals would remember them. It wasn't like the cult came in 40 or 50 years ago. Sounds like they raised quite a bit of hell. So if someone in Eatonton heard K D mention cult, they would assume he meant devil worshipping or satanic cult and not the Nuwaubians? I, not being local, when I read his mention of a cult scoffed. Reminded me of that piece of slime, Scott Peterson, and his lawyer saying Laci had been abducted by a satanic cult. Only when I delved deeper into the links posted by locals regarding the Nuwaubians that I backed up and said "Whoa! There really is a cult, a dangerous cult, whose leader has been imprisoned, but whose members are still active." Home grown terrorism is what came to my mind. If they can't kill us by the masses then they will pick us off one by one. :twocents:

I got the feeling the family was very spooked by what happened to their mother and father - just as the residents of GW/RP were spooked - only the family had other homes to go to - the residents of GW/RP are kind of stuck where they are at this time wondering if the killer will ever be caught and maybe he's the guy who lives next door to them.

K D not only mentioned cult, he brought up his brother M D who had a drug problem and was killed during a drug transaction. I just don't think all of these things are coincidental. Truth is stranger than fiction.
 
Bootsctr said:
Regarding the Nuwaubians, treading very lightly here, how many locals are familiar with the cult? It seems as much trouble they caused a lot of locals would remember them. It wasn't like the cult came in 40 or 50 years ago. Sounds like they raised quite a bit of hell. So if someone in Eatonton heard K D mention cult, they would assume he meant devil worshipping or satanic cult and not the Nuwaubians? I, not being local, when I read his mention of a cult scoffed. Reminded me of that piece of slime, Scott Peterson, and his lawyer saying Laci had been abducted by a satanic cult. Only when I delved deeper into the links posted by locals regarding the Nuwaubians that I backed up and said "Whoa! There really is a cult, a dangerous cult, whose leader has been imprisoned, but whose members are still active." Home grown terrorism is what came to my mind. If they can't kill us by the masses then they will pick us off one by one. :twocents:

.
Click to expand...

I am ranking this cult idea at #3 on my own list of theories, so all I say is a big IF ---> I think, "No way, no way...". Then I read a little more and see a little more and as I have said a number of times.... they sure do love their swords. Big, huge, long, shining, razor blade thin swords. Another thing I will say again... if "they" did this (it only takes ONE, not the whole posse) then I don't think they would have left a "calling card" as some have said they would because they wouldn't have killed to "give a sign", they would have done so as an act of "justice". So, the argument that nothing was left so it couldn't have been a cult (this has been posted several times) doesn't apply here. They would not have come to leave a message. The "justice" applied by the sword would have been the message. They claim to be sovereign and only held to their own laws. So, in their minds, they wouldn't have been breaking any law. They would have been practicing retribution - a just act.
 
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