GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #11

[RainCheck]

It's the opposite of that. The old law didn't have a second degree charge. It was felony murder with a life sentence or the DP. The new law is much more lenient.

Right, but they have to prove intent with that charge! It's much easier to get a conviction when you don't have to prove malice intent!

 

[Karmady]

I know I'm not the only one but I find things before it gets reported all the time. I have been tweeting about this much because I've been spending so much time here. But I find stuff that's before it's been reported all the time. I have all of like 60 followers on twitter and about 1/3 of them are reporters.

And I know I'm not unique in finding stuff.

I also know I could be wrong. Hence the reason I said I hope to hell I'm right...

I think everyone knows it's just a question of when. The judge said as much, and we've discussed at length why the prosecution likely has to. So, I'm sure you're about to be right lol

 

[Karmady]

Right, but they have to prove intent with that charge! It's much easier to get a conviction when you don't have to prove malice intent!

No they don't have to prove intent with the new charge. Same exact crime and a lighter sentence.

eta: for clarity, the new law provides that IF you are guilty of second degree child cruelty (which requires only criminal negligence) you are autoguilty of second degree murder (rather than felony murder). The proofs stay exactly the same.

 

[Oblio]

Nope. As a mandated reporter myself I've undergone yearly training and we are told repeatedly that this is not the case. Having said that, the penalties vary depending on location.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[newone]

I would like to hear more about this idea:

“Knowledge of a crime isn’t prosecutable. A cover-up is,” said Panitch.

Perhaps our laws are different here, but I'm sure that if you know someone plans to commit a crime you are under some kind of obligation to disclose that knowledge. And isn't finding out that a crime has been committed but keeping quiet about it some form of helping to cover up?

I was wondering about that as well, like obstruction of justice kind of thing. If you know something and have an opportunity to assist LE and you don't and they find out about it later watch out.

 

[JLSChook]

I wonder if this is why Nancy Grace said the prosecution is asking for the death penalty?

 

[RainCheck]

No they don't have to prove intent with the new charge. Same exact crime and a lighter sentence.

Huh? The felony murder charge before the law changed they would have had to prove malice intent. With the new charges and the option of 2nd degree murder during 2nd degree child cruelty they do not have to prove malice intent. They are completely different charges and require different proof from the DA!

 

[newone]

Nope. As a mandated reporter myself I've undergone yearly training and we are told repeatedly that this is not the case. Having said that, the penalties vary depending on location.

ditto.....that's my understanding as well. If you don't report you are unemployable in that field again.

 

[PigPong]

They are charging him with 16-5-1 together with 16-5-70(c) with the new amendment that went into effective July 1, 2014 that 2nd degree murder during the commission of 2nd degree child cruelty. It does not matter if there was malice intent. All that matters is the child died due to 2nd degree child cruelty. The punishment is a minimum of 10 years and a maximum of 30 years. It's still listed as 16-5-1 but in conjunction with 16-5-70(c) it's 2nd degree murder and 2nd degree child cruelty.

The new 2nd degree murder is 16-5-1(d). Felony murder is 16-5-1(c). When they list the charges they will specify what type of murder it usually is.

 

[PigPong]

View attachment 54376

Huh? The felony murder charge before the law changed they would have had to prove malice intent. With the new charges and the option of 2nd degree murder during 2nd degree child cruelty they do not have to prove malice intent. They are completely different charges and require different proof from the DA!

No, felony murder is a death that occurs during the commission of a felony, regardless of any malice intent.

 

[cluciano63]

If they don't have to show intent, he may be convicted but isn't that more like negligent homicide? People could still believe he never meant to do it, that it was just a mistake? If so, that does not seem fair if in fact it was a planned murder. He would keep and probably gain supporters who would think he had "suffered enough".

 

[newone]

I still haven't read anything about whether Cooper had a bottle, toy, diaper bag or anything of his in the car that day. Anything else other than Cooper that would have been easily seen in the car.

by that age I would think that he was more into the sippy cup phase--tommy tippee cupKWIM

 

[newone]

this may seem off topic but who else thinks that 20 minutes is not enough time for a toddler to have breakfast?

 

[Karmady]

Huh? The felony murder charge before the law changed they would have had to prove malice intent. With the new charges and the option of 2nd degree murder during 2nd degree child cruelty they do not have to prove malice intent. They are completely different charges and require different proof from the DA!

No. Prior to the law change (and after it), you had to prove 2nd degree child cruelty. Which did not, and still does not, require malice. Under the old law, the 2nd degree child cruelty charge was the underlying felony for a felony murder charge -- meaning if you were guilty of 2nd degree child cruelty, you were autoguilty of felony murder and could be sentenced to life or the DP. Under the new law, if you're convicted of 2nd degree child cruelty, you're no longer autoguilty of felony murder. Instead, they've created a new crime under GA law for you (second degree murder) that carries a max penalty of 30 years. I'm absolutely certain. So we can agree to disagree.

 

[PigPong]

I wonder if this is why Nancy Grace said the prosecution is asking for the death penalty?

Maybe because they upgraded the charges like I'm thinking they did. They couldn't get the DP with felony murder or the new 2nd degree murder.

 

[RainCheck]

And am I correct in saying its much easier to get a conviction for 2nd degree murder than 1st degree murder. Isn't the burden of prove different between the two charges? They didn't have an option to charge him with 2nd degree murder and 2nd degree child cruelty before July 1, 2014. They would have had to prove it was capital murder in the commission of 2nd degree child cruelty or am I completely wrong and have no idea what I'm saying, lol?

 

[MyBelle]

I got a ticket for not restraining my son. I had to practically use a straight jacket to keep him in. That was when he was 15 months. I was always worried if there was a situation where I needed to get him out in a hurry I wouldn't be able to do it because I had to use extra rope to keep him from getting out, while I was driving. I did a really stupid thing and left him in the car while I was pumping gas he got out got into the drivers seat and put the car in drive. The car took off with the gas pump still attached and the car hit one of those dumpsters, luckily he was not hurt. I learned real fast to take him out of the car whenever I was stopped or have an adult in the back holding him down. I wish little Cooper would have had whatever talent my son had to get himself out

Well, so do I because Cooper did not escape. No indication his parents were ever cited.

 

[PigPong]

No. Prior to the law change, you had to prove 2nd degree child cruelty. Which did not, and still does not, require malice. Under the old law, the 2nd degree child cruelty charge was the underlying felony for a felony murder charge -- meaning if you were guilty of 2nd degree child cruelty, you were autoguilty of felony murder and could be sentenced to life or the DP. Under the new law, if you're convicted of 2nd degree child cruelty, you're no longer autoguilty of felony murder. Instead, they've created a new crime under GA law for you (second degree murder) that carries a max penalty of 30 years. I'm absolutely certain. So we can agree to disagree.

You are absolutely right about all of it. Except I don't think you could get DP for felony murder, could you?

 

[Karmady]

this may seem off topic but who else thinks that 20 minutes is not enough time for a toddler to have breakfast?

I think it's twice as long as they need. That's just another one of those "everyone's different" moments

 

[Karmady]

You are absolutely right about all of it. Except I don't think you could get DP for felony murder, could you?

It's available. Are you going to get it is the question. jmo