Garrote VS manual srangulation.

Time flies, isn't? Look how many confirmation of the facts we learned since otg original thread in 2010:

- Kolar has confirmed to cynic during radio interview that urine stain was near WC...placing JB's last life moments right there, near WC. So, no more discussion needed in which room she dies;
- Kolar book confirmed the fibers evidence inside of the 'garotte' knots and on the tape;
- Kolar has cleared the importance (or should I say non-importance?) of DNA/tDNA findings...in addition to: where these 'non-identified' DNA/tDNA has been found = NOT on the rope.

However, even today, the question of WHY the 'V'-shaped blanched line on JB's neck is so clearly visiable on autopsy photos still remains, IMO. WHAT could caused such a line and HOW it plays in JB's death?

So, again IMO, we cannot dismiss this fact and ignore it with the statement 'the ONLY marks on her neck are the ligature furrows and petechiae'...There are much more to the picture...with all due respect....:seeya:

jmo

OpenMind4U,
Yes there is more to the asphyxiation evidence than merely declaring it a settled issue because there is an absence of evidence from which it does not follow therefore that there is evidence of absence, some extremely gifted and intelligent people fall for this one.

Those that promote the asphyxiation as a one off event, have cycled through various explanations for the other marks on her neck. These usually suggest the ligature was moved in some manner, coming to rest in its final position.

Speculating I think someone was holding JonBenet by the neck as she was being sexually assaulted, or after she had been sexually assaulted she was restrained by her shirt collar.

This might involve some EA behaviour or some form of restraint that appealed to her abuser.

In an attempt to hide this the paintbrush-handle ligature was applied, resulting in the neat circumferential furrow, contrasting with the other marks.

If it was Patsy that staged much of the wine-cellar then you could argue she was really undoing whatever had taken place before. JonBenet was returned to normality. Except it was to be viewed through the lens of failed abduction.

.
 
Time flies, isn't? Look how many confirmation of the facts we learned since otg original thread in 2010:

- Kolar has confirmed to cynic during radio interview that urine stain was near WC...placing JB's last life moments right there, near WC. So, no more discussion needed in which room she dies;
- Kolar book confirmed the fibers evidence inside of the 'garotte' knots and on the tape;
- Kolar has cleared the importance (or should I say non-importance?) of DNA/tDNA findings...in addition to: where these 'non-identified' DNA/tDNA has been found = NOT on the rope.

However, even today, the question of WHY the 'V'-shaped blanched line on JB's neck is so clearly visiable on autopsy photos still remains, IMO. WHAT could caused such a line and HOW it plays in JB's death?

So, again IMO, we cannot dismiss this fact and ignore it with the statement 'the ONLY marks on her neck are the ligature furrows and petechiae'...There are much more to the picture...with all due respect....:seeya:

jmo

The blanched line has been spoken of many times before. There is only one way that white mark could have been made- and that is if she was already dead and livor was still in the earlier blanching stage. When the coroner cut the ligature off her neck, the blood, by this time having gelled and livor fixed, would not flow back into the space from where it had been pushed away by the pressure of the ligature. However I have never any comment by the coroner or any LE as to the ramifications of the mark having been made after her death. But it does show that there had to be not a lot of time that elapsed between the head bash and her death.
What seems odd to me is this- for that ligature to have killed her, the killer would have had to wait a while before making that one loop after she died. Livor takes about 20 minutes or so to form, even though the blanching phase is first. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though obviously it DID happen. It would seem as if the marks had to be made at the same time- but that just isn't possible.
 
JR said he gave JB mouth to mouth, but we don't know that for sure. If he used his hand to tilt the head back, would his thumb or finger have had anything to do with that mark on her neck? DeeDee this question is most likely for you, so please excuse me if it seems not logical. I know you are our expert on this subject. Thanks
What if JR had done mouth to mouth much earlier just before JB died, thinking he could revive her?
 
JR said he gave JB mouth to mouth, but we don't know that for sure. If he used his hand to tilt the head back, would his thumb or finger have had anything to do with that mark on her neck? DeeDee this question is most likely for you, so please excuse me if it seems not logical. I know you are our expert on this subject. Thanks
What if JR had done mouth to mouth much earlier just before JB died, thinking he could revive her?

BBM This is something I've only heard about recently. I don't remember this in ST or JK's books. I'm presuming he claims to have done this in the WC after FW ran upstairs yelling for someone to call 911? I don't think FW ever confirmed this did he?

JR would have had to know she was dead. She was in rigor and ice cold. So why the innocent act and looking to LA to confirm she was dead after he brought her up from the basement? :banghead: Just more Ramsey BS I guess.
 
I have seen this from time to time, but other than an incorrect inference from the following LKL interview, there is no evidence to suggest that JR ever said that he attempted CPR, or any form of first aid.
It is certainly not mentioned in any book on the case, or in any LE interview.

KING: Did you try anything to revive her, CPR?
J. RAMSEY: I took the tape off her mouth, I tried to untie her arms. They were very tightly bound. I couldn't get the knot unbound and then I just -- I picked her up and I just screamed, the kind of scream you scream in a dream when you -- you're trying to speak, but you can't. It's just a scream.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html
 
I have seen this from time to time, but other than an incorrect inference from the following LKL interview, there is no evidence to suggest that JR ever said that he attempted CPR, or any form of first aid.
It is certainly not mentioned in any book on the case, or in any LE interview.

KING: Did you try anything to revive her, CPR?
J. RAMSEY: I took the tape off her mouth, I tried to untie her arms. They were very tightly bound. I couldn't get the knot unbound and then I just -- I picked her up and I just screamed, the kind of scream you scream in a dream when you -- you're trying to speak, but you can't. It's just a scream.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

Thank you cynic! Hopefully, another 'fiction evidence' is out the window:)
 
I remember seeing where JR blathered in one of his interviews that he gave her CPR. Of course, he was lying- just as he was when he said her hands were "tightly bound" and he untied them.
The coroner swabbed JB's mouth. His saliva would have been detected. Also, the smear of mucus/vomit on her cheek extending from her mouth would have been disturbed. It was not. AND- rigor had frozen her head cocked to the right. To perform CPR, he'd have had to twist her head to the front, which he wouldn't have been able to do without breaking rigor, which as I have explained- will NOT reform. So it would have been very obvious if rigor was broken in her neck.
As for the "tightly bound hands"- that didn't happen either. Her hands were frozen by rigor over a foot apart. No way they were bound together. There were NO marks on her wrists either- that cord wasn't tied at all on one wrist and only loosely on the other.
And lastly- FW was RIGHT behind JR as he entered the wine cellar. FW would KNOW whether JR had done either, as he would have had to see him.
 
I remember seeing where JR blathered in one of his interviews that he gave her CPR. Of course, he was lying- just as he was when he said her hands were "tightly bound" and he untied them.
The coroner swabbed JB's mouth. His saliva would have been detected. Also, the smear of mucus/vomit on her cheek extending from her mouth would have been disturbed. It was not. AND- rigor had frozen her head cocked to the right. To perform CPR, he'd have had to twist her head to the front, which he wouldn't have been able to do without breaking rigor, which as I have explained- will NOT reform. So it would have been very obvious if rigor was broken in her neck.
As for the "tightly bound hands"- that didn't happen either. Her hands were frozen by rigor over a foot apart. No way they were bound together. There were NO marks on her wrists either- that cord wasn't tied at all on one wrist and only loosely on the other.
And lastly- FW was RIGHT behind JR as he entered the wine cellar. FW would KNOW whether JR had done either, as he would have had to see him.

DeeDee, so JR was saying about CPR after all in some interview?!!! Do you remember in which interview?...because if this is true then you better tell cynic about so he can clarify this by questioning about John DNA on JB mouth in the next Tricia radio show with DNA expert.

thank you in advance....
 
DeeDee, so JR was saying about CPR after all in some interview?!!! Do you remember in which interview?...because if this is true then you better tell cynic about so he can clarify this by questioning about John DNA on JB mouth in the next Tricia radio show with DNA expert.

thank you in advance....

Mostly all of what I have seen came from JR's interviews on acandyrose. I am sure Cynic has read there too. Or it may have been posted here. I don't bookmark or save things. But the interviews are there for anyone to read.
 
JR would have had to know she was dead. She was in rigor and ice cold. So why the innocent act and looking to LA to confirm she was dead after he brought her up from the basement? Just more Ramsey BS I guess.

Exactly! John asking Linda Arndt about his daughters condition is absolutely ludicrous, when you take into account that White and Arndt both knew she was dead. Arndt even stated it was obvious Jonbenet had been dead...for a while. John held his own daughter from the cellar, up the stairs and to outside the kitchen hallway with her only inches away from him before he put her down. John questions the detective if Jonbenet is dead, when only seconds before, he remarked on his way up the stairs "I don't think he meant to kill her, because she was wrapped in a blanket." What happened between walking up the stairs to laying her on the floor that made John suddenly undecided about her state?

I remember seeing where JR blathered in one of his interviews that he gave her CPR. Of course, he was lying- just as he was when he said her hands were "tightly bound" and he untied them.
The coroner swabbed JB's mouth. His saliva would have been detected. Also, the smear of mucus/vomit on her cheek extending from her mouth would have been disturbed. It was not. AND- rigor had frozen her head cocked to the right. To perform CPR, he'd have had to twist her head to the front, which he wouldn't have been able to do without breaking rigor, which as I have explained- will NOT reform. So it would have been very obvious if rigor was broken in her neck.

I know that I'm new here, and do not possess the extent of facts regarding, not just the case in general, but much of the knowledge related to whether or not John performed CPR on finding Jonbenet. I've seen it brought up on this site just a few times, though I don't understand what the questions are for.

Since Jonbenet had her mouth tested for DNA and there was nothing found, wouldn't this just go to show John did not perform any CPR on her whatsoever? DeeDee gives a very strong argument in her post about this.

BBM This is something I've only heard about recently. I don't remember this in ST or JK's books. I'm presuming he claims to have done this in the WC after FW ran upstairs yelling for someone to call 911? I don't think FW ever confirmed this did he?

While it seems to have mostly been determined there was no CPR given by John, as stated above due to evidence and also witness Fleet White. Another point I'd just like to make, let's not kid ourselves here, Mr. Ramsey wasn't the dumbest guy and he knew Jonbenet was dead. In the state she was described, I think it would be difficult for anyone to put their lips on a body with blue lips from being dead for 12 hours, covered with dried caked on snot or vomit, in a state of rigor mortis and smell of decay, if it weren't absolutely necessary...even if (God bless her) she was your daughter.

How are we to believe John would have attempted or even performed CPR?
Only seconds after she was found, Fleet ran up the stairs, John was supposedly trying to untie Jonbenet's wrists, only he followed Fleet up the stairs almost immediately. Arndt hurried over after hearing Fleet call for an ambulance, and by the time she got there, John was already almost up the stairs. Besides, there would be no point in CPR for Jonbenet, as rigor mortis had already set in. And also, no point for John to do CPR either. Why would John go to the trouble? Fleet had hurried up the stairs and John was in the basement alone with his dead daughter...he had no audience.
 
The compression of her chest needed to perform CPR would have been impossible in the state of full rigor she was in by then. This should have been very obvious to LE as well. Yet, no one challenged JR abut the CPR claim. No one challenged him about the lack of marks on her wrists to indicate she was tightly bound either.
Let's face it- no one challenged either parent about much of anything they claimed.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
151
Guests online
2,851
Total visitors
3,002

Forum statistics

Threads
592,200
Messages
17,964,940
Members
228,714
Latest member
hannahdunnam
Back
Top