GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #2

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by marlywings, Jun 3, 2014.

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  1. KG1

    KG1 Registered user

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    I think whatever happened, happened outside, maybe at rear of carport, and if the vehicle which showed the blood run was backed into carport at that time, (as some photos show), then it would be a simple matter to place her body into the vehicle - Scraps barking insanely comes to mind. Allison may have been hit/pushed and fell and hit her head. Many times this causes death. I know this does not explain the short sharp screams heard near Kholo Creek Bridge which set other dogs howling. But they may be unrelated. I also think that what Allison was found wearing is what she may have normally worn to bed, minus the jumper and the shoes. MOO
     


  2. Zim

    Zim Well-Known Member

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    I am so sorry you have to deal with this...it must be really hard for you.
    :hug:
     
  3. buzzinjess

    buzzinjess New Member

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    In regards to the three hairdressor appointments, I have a hunch that GBC had been criticising/ insulting her hair and thats why she returned three times.. This would explain why she was down in the hairdressors. If she went home and he mocked her again it could have started an argument. His comment about her hair colour during the 000 call was "red, brown blonde thingy" not a nice way to describe your wife's hair.
    I also think she could have fallen asleep on the couch in her trackies, and I still think if he did suffocate her she may have bit her tongue and chipped her tooth in the struggle. The blood stain in the captiva being saliva whith traces of blood, thats why it ran down the wall but went unnoticed to GBC. I also think he wouldve needed an accomplice..
     
  4. kiwijayne

    kiwijayne Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think that it hurt BF this fiasco(in the political stakes) and he has put himself into this situation. Makes you question the ramifications of not being able to wake the friend to corroborate the statement. JMHO
     
  5. Oddsocks

    Oddsocks Well-Known Member

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    I know everyone is probably either in bed or actually having fun on a Friday night so I'm probs talking to myself.
    My dad was on the way to qld today and I called him. He said "I'm just driving through Aberdeen where that lady killed her boyfriend and cooked his head. "
    Obviously I'm like "what!" And had to look it up.
    Anyway back on topic I was reading stuff and this popped out at me. I'm not well versed in legal things and I found it pertinent to my concerns about this case that's all. Sorry for rambling I'm tired

    “’Aggravating’ and ‘mitigating’ must be understood in a wide sense and without, eg, drawing the distinction which might be drawn between the significance for another purpose on the one hand of a circumstance which renders the crime more serious (eg, the use of a weapon) or on the other hand of a prior or subsequent conviction.

    The test is not what tag should be applied to any particular fact but what use the judge proposes to make of the fact in relation to the offender. If it is a use adverse to the interests of the offender then proof beyond reasonable doubt is required; if it is a use in favour of the offender then proof on the balance of probabilities will suffice.”

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWSC/2001/1011.html
     
  6. AAAA

    AAAA New Member

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    Thanks Missfisher, but wasn't the treadmill bought a few years prior? Surely he'd gotten over it by then, give that Allisison was trying to lose weight and all. Too controlling in my opinion. Did anyone ever work out whether the treadmill was on Allisons side of the bed or not? Cause it looked a little squeezy and I can't imagine Gerard squeezing past it every night? If it was on her side there's more chance she would use that than risk going walking at night....
     
  7. Zim

    Zim Well-Known Member

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    A little off topic....but interesting
    One of my favourite crimes was "Lamb to the Slaughter" by Roald Dahl. (TV and book) Changed everything for me as to murder and evidence. Made me realise that evidence is right under your nose !
    If you have not seen the TV programme you can read about it here.
    Lamb to the Slaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Anyone else remember this ?
     
  8. JAM13

    JAM13 New Member

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    Here is a summary of the bail application to outline everything that shows me (this is all JMO) that GBC is either guilty of the murder/interference with corpse OR is covering up for somebody who helped him out. Everything in brackets is MOO after the piece of information as per the bail application.

    1. Police observed that the defendant had what appeared to be a number of severe scratch marks on his face. (Shaving cuts, no matter how old the razor is, do NOT cause "severe" marks on somebodies face)

    2. Other than consenting to Forensic Procedure Order on 21 April 2012, the defendant has not otherwise cooperated with police in relation to the investigation. (If you are innocent and want your wife to come home, you cooperate 150% with the police IMO)


    3. The defendant did not assist in the search for the deceased during the period she was missing and did not attend the Command Centre set up in the Brookfield area. (Ok i'll be very lenient here, I can maybe understand if you don't feel comfortable going to search for your "missing" wife's body, at the VERY LEAST if you were genuinely concerned about her, you could have spent some amount of time at the command centre with ABC's family- which is technically your family as well)

    4. The defendant told Olivia Walton of the deceased's walking route at about 6.30am on 20 April 2012. (If it only takes around 20 minutes to get to the office, ABC would have only needed to have left the home at about 7.40am. Why has GBC told OW about ABC being "missing" as early as 6.30am? She could still be out walking and be on her way home. Even if she arrived home by 7am she still would have had 40 or so minutes to get ready and leave for the office)

    5. The defendant initially told police and other witnesses that it was usual for the deceased to take a morning walk on week days. (Read below)

    6. The defendant told another witness, *******, a long term friend of the deceased, that the deceased normally went for a walk at about 10pm in the evening. (So what is it GBC? Does she take usual morning walks or usual evening walks?)

    7. The defendant identified two possible walking route to uniform police, however, three hours later told the deceased's parents that he did not know her walking route. (Obvious lies and stupidity)

    8. That is, within a few hours the defendant provided four differing accounts about the walking routes undertaken by the deceased. (Same as above)

    9. Enquiries with the deceased's parents and close friends indicated that the deceased was not known to walk for exercise and was unlikely to have gone walking late at night. (I know who i'd rather believe at this stage. The Dickies/close friends over the BC's any day.)

    10. The defendant said that the affair was no longer occurring and had ended in September 2011. (This has proven to be a lie)

    11. The defendant told police that he and the deceased had had a conversation (relating to relationship issues) on the evening of 19 April 2012 but would not tell police the exact topics discussed. (Obviously a topic that would start an argument)

    12. He told police that the deceased suffered from depression but was unlikely to self-harm or commit suicide. (Well why do the BC's and DT seem so intent on pushing for this theory in court? Shouldn't you be defending her on that if she was unlikely to commit suicide?)

    13. On the morning of Saturday, 21 April 2012, the defendant attended a doctor at a Kenmore Medical Practice. At this time the defendant told the treating medical practitioner that he had been requested by police to attend the doctor and to have his injuries documented. Medical opinion is that the marks to the defendant's face are unusual and unlikely to have been caused by shaving.(Read below)

    14. Police did not request the defendant to do this and were unaware at that stage that the defendant had seen a medical practitioner.

    15. Later that day, the defendant attended a second medical practice in Taringa and again had his injuries documented. (For what reason Jerred? The police never requested you to do so.)

    16. On Saturday 21 April 2012, the defendant, through his solicitor underwent a Forensic Procedure Order in relation to examination of his injuries. This examination further revealed a recent injury to his right palm consistent with a scratch with a sharp object. The defendant stated that he had received this injury whilst he was changing a lightbulb at a house he was preparing for an open house. An employee of the Century 21 business, ******, was present at this time and refuted this claim that the injury was sustained during the preparation of the house. (So GBC, why does your employee who was with you at the open house, seem to think that this never occurred?)

    17. On Sunday, 22 April 2012, police obtained a further Forensic Procedure Order to examine the defendant with assistance of the Forensic Medical Officer. Again, medical opinion was that the facial injuries to the defendant were not consistent with shaving cuts and were consistent with scratches. (Second professional has now said that your razor didn't do it. Are they both lying?)

    18. On April 18 2012, at 10:08pm, the defendant the defendant searching 'taking the Fifth'. This internet search led to results including 'self incrimination'. This search result was then accessed through the Wikipedia website. (Was GBC thinking about doing it on the 18th and then decided that it wasn't the right time, so waited until the next night when the time was right?)

    19. On April 20 2012, at 7:09am (the day the deceased is reported missing by the defendant) the defendant searched the term "self-incrimination" on the internet. (Your wife is 40 only minutes late coming back from a "walk" and you search these terms 5 minutes before you call the police to report your wife missing?)

    20. On 19 April 2014, at 8:45pm, his phone was removed from the charger. On 20 April 2014, at 1:48am, the defendant's phone is connected to a charger. At 6:18am, the defendant's phone is removed from the charger. Police believe this indicates the defendant was awake at various times through the night inconsistent with his version that he was a heavy sleeper and did not wake until just after 6am. (The evidence says it all.)

    21. Examination of the defendant's Holden Captiva vehicle, revealed an amount of blood on the plastic trim inside the vehicle in the boot area where there was a third row of fold down seats on the driver's side of the vehicle. This blood has been confirmed as the deceased's blood.

    22. On April 30 2012, a canoiest on the Brisbane river in the Kholo Creek area saw what he observed to be a deceased person on the eastern bank of the creek. The body was later identified as being the deceased. This location is 14 kilometres from the Baden Clay residence, which is a considerable walking distance from the Baden-Clay residence. (I've just done a calculation on Google Maps which provides accurate travel times for driving and walking. One way to Kholo Creek walking from the BC residence will take around 2-3 hours and a round trip back home would take between 4-6 hours. She did not commit suicide.)

    23. Police have obtained a number of witness statements from Toni McHugh, the woman that the defendant was having a long term affair with. Enquiries have indicated that the defendant had been having extra marital affairs with at least three women since 2008. (Not the loving and caring husband that NBC/EBC/OW keep making you out to be, huh?)

    24. Toni McHugh stated that the defendant was planning to leave the deceased and come to live with her. Toni McHugh stated to police the affair was still ongoing at the time of the deceased's disappearance and the defendant told her that he could not afford a divorce. (I guess that's what life insurance policies totalling $1milllion are for, huh?)

    25. Investigations have revealed that the defendant has maintained contact with McHugh since the deceased's death and has been utilising a public phone to contact her, nearby his business premises. (But you told the police the affair was over in 2011 GBC?)

    26. McHugh told police that the defendant contacted her after the deceased's disappearance and told her that they needed to "lay low". (For what reason? Until you are able to collect the insurance money and start a new life with your mistress?)

    That pretty much summarises my thoughts from the first 5 pages out of 7 from the bail application. I will do the last 2 tomorrow at some stage haha.

    These are all MOO and just expressing my thoughts.
     
  9. Zim

    Zim Well-Known Member

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    Jam13....Awesome post !
    It is late here in Melbourne, Australia so am :eek:fftobed:
     
  10. Consider

    Consider New Member

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    Was there an opportunity for GBC and TM to meet (after popping girls to bed and prior to or as Allison arrived home from hairdresser) on the 19th?

    Could the philanderers have argued and TM scratched GBC's right cheek not Allison?
     
  11. breno84

    breno84 New Member

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    Hi everybody! long time no talk, though I have been lurking on and off since....
    Great to see some familiar names still contributing from last time the discussion was this hot.

    What follows will be a somewhat lengthy post, but there are a few discussions happening on here that I feel have run their course, and I'll give my (At times professional) opinion on them.

    1. Gererd (Or is it Geraaard?) Using some elaborate rope system to lower a body.

    I'm afraid there's no way this happened. Believe it or not, ropes will always put you at a disadvantage unless they are coupled with a mechanical aid.
    Ropes lose their load capacity incrementally over distance, not to mention the weight of the rope adding to the pressure on the anchor point-which some have suggested may have been GBC himself.
    Personally, I've seen 5tonne chains fail on a lift of 2tonne... because the inclusive chain angle was more than 120 degrees. Anyone with a DG ticket would know what I'm on about.
    Load + Angle and/or length = fail
    Anchoring yourself into such a situation would be Suicide....And only one 'Suicide' was meant to happen that night.

    2. The hair in the Captiva.

    Nothing of significance Imo. The blood is a big deal, especially how vividly it shows up under luminol.
    The hair on the other hand?
    It was always going to be in the car.
    My (Thankfully) Ex girlfriend had very long hair. She was only ever in my ute about 2 days of the week maximum, yet every time I rolled my window down to have a smoke while driving *Whap* Huge piece of hair would wrap around my face/eyes.
    Ladies, you shed more hair than you'd like to admit!
    As for it being stuck to the blood, Defence could argue blood was there first and the hair found its way there afterward.

    3. The leaf matter....

    I find it hard to believe that the leaf matter collected from Allissons Hair could have only come from the carport.
    You only have to take a wander along any watercourse to see the variation in vegetation etc.
    Not to discount the Botanist, but how far did he travel in his observations? We are talking about a tidal creek which had suffered significant rain activity over a 10 day period.......If I were on the jury, this is the kind of evidence I'd throw over my shoulder, sorry to say.

    4. Injuries

    Now here is something that really got me thinking.......
    Allissons injuries. The Chipped tooth, Decomposition in the jaw
    Smacks of an uppercut punch. Would explain the bleeding (Bit tongue)
    Chipped tooth from both jaws slamming together?

    Now as far as I'm concerned;
    Did he do it? of course.
    Can I prove it? nope
    Does the prosecution have more up their sleeve?
    You betcha!
    Stay safe everyone, been great to see some familiar names as always
    -Breno
     
  12. Thinking

    Thinking New Member

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    People probably do that, yes, and I guess Allison may have done this - but I reckon she was in the oversized ones for comfort that night after a big day, not with any intention of walking in them at any point. I would never have done this when I was younger, but after having three kids myself, I love the oversized stuff for chilling at home at the end of the day - not very glam I know :)

    Also, we don't know that the oversized stuff was her usual walking gear anyway, do we. We only have GBCs word for that. I reckon it was probably her chilling at home gear, and shoes were likely put on her later.
     
  13. Champagne4lulu

    Champagne4lulu Active Member

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    Jam13, great post! The searching self incrimination and taking the fifth stuff has been explained already somewhat.

    His refusal to cooperate with police - I originally thought this too, but what about the statements he has made on the morning she went missing? Was there other stuff they wanted from him that he refused? What? Do the jury know this?

    Obw mentioned in her evidence that she asked to assist the search party, but was told no. Have the police confirmed this? If so they may have said the same to GBC? Agree he could have visited commend centre though.

    The cut on his hand has been discussed by police forensics on the stand but they haven't called the woman who refuted that? I wonder if they will?

    There is a lot in here that is very suss but I wonder just how much of this the jury has been told? There either needs to be a hell of a lot more to come, or one hell of a closing statement to link it all together.
     
  14. Thinking

    Thinking New Member

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    This all makes sense kg1. However, there were no screams heard at Kholo - other odd noises but no screams as far as I'm aware.
     
  15. Cattail

    Cattail New Member

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    Personally I see no point in him lying about a scream but it was suggested that he is lying.

    I was just making the point that even if GBC has asked him to lie and say he heard a scream, he couldn't have known this would happen during their phone call on the night of the 19th.

    So when she says he told he of the scream during the call - if people think he is lying she has to be also.

    Personally I don't think either of them are.
     
  16. Cattail

    Cattail New Member

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    Yes this is what I was trying to say :) thank you
     
  17. We German speaking WS' are agreeing about to have a nice weekend, though we are on thread without pause.

    Ob er
    aber
    über
    Ober -ammergau
    oder
    aber
    über
    Unter -ammergau
    oder
    aber
    über -haupt nicht kommt,
    ist nicht gewiß.

    :floorlaugh:

    Sorry, I've remembered this from childhood.
     
  18. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    Gerard Baden-Clay murder trial forces shattered families together in court

    They know the man wearing the suit in the prisoner’s dock. He is a brother, son and son-in-law.

    He is Gerard Baden-Clay.

    Once they shared hugs, kisses and greetings. A life *together.

    But now, Allison Baden-Clay’s family sit together on one side of the public gallery in court 11 of the Supreme Court in Brisbane, while his sit in stoic support behind him.

    Each day they listen to evidence aired in Baden-Clay’s murder trial, where ultimately a jury will decide whether or not he murdered his wife on April 19, 2012.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ogether-in-court/story-fnihsrf2-1226961830953
     
  19. sosocurious

    sosocurious Well-Known Member

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    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/19/gerard-baden-clay-mp-loan-request

    This article says under cross examination, she agreed the politician told her to turn her television down.
    I do not understand why he did not try harder to wake the bloke that was staying at the house if the screams were so disturbing.
     
  20. DrWatson

    DrWatson Verified Thoracic and Vascular Surgeon

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    Morning AAAA :)

    I think I'd better keep any thoughts and theories to myself on this one. I just get the feeling that there is a back story to it, but I don't really know what it is. And any theories would be just that - theories - so better kept in my head!:banghead:
     
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