GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Tangled_Web]

From Kellie Thompsons statement immediately prior to him saying, "Oh, that's good."

23. At or about 1.09pm, I approached the defendant as he returned back at 593 Brookfield Road Brookfield and I asked the defendant if I could use his mobile phone again so I could try and locate Allison Baden Clay's phone again using the application called find my friends. At this time, it took a good 10 seconds where the application was searching and upon completion of the search. The defendant was standing beside me and I told the defendant that the phone was still searching. I then observed a blue dot on the screen where it indicated Allison's phone was. I then said to the defendant, "Oh, it comes up."

I have been wondering about Allison's phone - how and why did it go missing? Would GBC have needed it go missing because there was something incriminating on it? Did its absence enable him to keep sending those texts? Did it get dropped in some kind of struggle? Not everyone takes their phone every time they go walking. Surely it wouldn't have raised suspicion if it was simply at home that morning in a place where Allison often left it. Or maybe I'm just completely missing something.

Then there's the matter of GBC's own phone. If he is putting forward the suicide theory, is he seriously suggesting Allison dutifully put his phone on the charger for him at 1:48 am and then somehow after that time set off on a path that led her body to be found far from home at Kholo Creek?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Would love to know content of that conversation. Wonder if police spoke with him at the time?
And if he is still around. And able to recall. Considering the news about missing Brookfield woman, Allison Baden Clay, most people would been aware. It was hot news.

Show ground maintenance guy :Bennymonkey: like Oscar's maintenance guy Frankie :Bennymonkey: ?!

 

[Amee]

Ah, you're a gem Amee. Unfortunately this article is from June 2012 and relates to the police searching Nigelaine's cars etc. while the committal hearing was in process, or had been that day.

I still don't recall reading anything about Nigelaine or OW's cars being forensically tested at all in April and May of 2012.

I dont remember anything about their cars being tested either.

This search happened after the bomb threat at court that day I think ?
It was on the news but I cant find the video of it :banghead:

 

[marlywings]

GBC can sit on the stand for hours waffling on but not once did I see him pleading for help to find his wife and mother of his children! No that was left to Allison poor parents.

:furious:

Yes waffles on & throws out the tears...for himself.

From today's report....

Then there were the tears, near tears, choked words and red-faced emotion that punctuated his evidence.

He spoke for one hour and 17 minutes before the court adjourned until 10am on Monday, when he will return to the stand. There may be days more to come

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226968217967
------------------------------------------------

However, on the day he reported Allison missing there were no tears, zero emotion....nothing!!

June 16, 2014

She said she and her husband rushed to her daughter's home on Brookfield Road that morning to find her son-in-law "just as calm as a cucumber".

"I couldn't believe it, he had a pinked striped shirt on an a tie," Mrs Dickie said.

"Just as calm as a cucumber. [He] just came over and said, 'g'day dad ... g'day mum', and I looked at him and I said what's happened and he said 'Allison's missing, she went for a walk and hasn't come back'.

"Couldn't believe it ...

"Then he said, 'would you like a cup of tea?'"

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-4-week-2-20140616-3a6an.html#ixzz35v1y8q9V

 

[Snails]

Ah, you're a gem Amee. Unfortunately this article is from June 2012 and relates to the police searching Nigelaine's cars etc. while the committal hearing was in process, or had been that day.



I still don't recall reading anything about Nigelaine or OW's cars being forensically tested at all in April and May of 2012.

Mmmmmmm

 

[marlywings]

I dont remember anything about their cars being tested either.

This search happened after the bomb threat at court that day I think ?
It was on the news but I cant find the video of it :banghead:

Yes it was the evening of the aborted bail hearing.

 

[kiwijayne]

Show ground maintenance guy :Bennymonkey: like Oscar's maintenance guy Frankie :Bennymonkey: ?!

I'm on holiday now for 2 weeks. So I'm hoping next week to get to the trial for a day, go take some pics and look for crepe myrtle at Kholo and talk to the maintenance guy(who if it is the same one is nicknamed leather man)

 

[Neuromancer]

I have been wondering about Allison's phone - how and why did it go missing? Would GBC have needed it go missing because there was something incriminating on it? Did its absence enable him to keep sending those texts? Did it get dropped in some kind of struggle? Not everyone takes their phone every time they go walking. Surely it wouldn't have raised suspicion if it was simply at home that morning in a place where Allison often left it. Or maybe I'm just completely missing something.<snip>

I think the phone needed to be missing because he was worried that it would report her location.

eg - his story required the phone to be home at Brookfield until she "went for a walk" then be found in her possession, assuming she carried it. There was no way for him to really mimic that while keep up his part of the story (sleeping til 6.15, etc), so he took the phone out of the picture entirely.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

This story rang a bell. Within the last year I've read a series of novels (3 I think). In the last book, it was revealed that the murder (of the husband's lover) in the first book was committed by the wife. The husband was found guilty of murdering his wife, but she had actually suicided and made it look like her husband murdered her? It was revenge for the affair.

They were actually quite riveting crime fiction. If anyone is interested, I can try and did up the titles. But, I've stuffed up the "whodunit" bit for you.

Although the wife's plan worked like clockwork in crime fiction, it wouldn't even be a starter in real life - like most crime fiction.

For anyone who is interested in the novels mentioned above, their author is Scott Turow and the titles are:

. Presumed Innocent (1987)
. The Burden of Proof (1990)
. Innocent (2010)

BTW I don't get commission on these!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Had things become too difficult the couple could always have turned to Mr Baden-Clay senior who worked alongside the pair in the real estate business and who as a marriage enhancement facilitator, had been intimately involved with helping couples through his directorship of the Anglican Marriage Encounter Australia Ltd - a now defunct program which organised couples to spend a weekend where they learned to communicate again and strengthen their marriages through talking to counsellors.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...ing-husband-20120512-1yj5w.html#ixzz35v6QZDUO

I'm sure, all the pairs which needed counselling, were happily married like his son GBC??

 

[Makara]

I dont remember anything about their cars being tested either.

This search happened after the bomb threat at court that day I think ?
It was on the news but I cant find the video of it :banghead:

Yes, the bomb threat was initially thought to be targeted towards GBC's committal hearing but there was also a Bikie trial going on that day in the same building. The link you posted makes mention of it.

NBC's car was at the Brookfield house on the Friday morning when the whole of the property was declared a crime scene, so he would not have been permitted to remove it until it was checked by police. Both the Captiva and the Prado belonging to Allison and GBC were towed away for further forensic testing but it's not clear if NBC's car was also towed away.

From memory OW arrived at the Brookfield house in one car but when she returned from dropping the girls off to school, she was driving another car, or have I got that wrong? I'm sure something about this was mentioned in Constable Ash's statement. I'll have a look in a minute.

 

[Makara]

Mmmmmmm

What??? :floorlaugh:

 

[Snails]

Yes, the bomb threat was initially thought to be targeted towards GBC's committal hearing but there was also a Bikie trial going on that day in the same building. The link you posted makes mention of it.



NBC's car was at the Brookfield house on the Friday morning when the whole of the property was declared a crime scene, so he would not have been permitted to remove it until it was checked by police. Both the Captiva and the Prado belonging to Allison and GBC were towed away for further forensic testing but it's not clear if NBC's car was also towed away.



From memory OW arrived at the Brookfield house in one car but when she returned from dropping the girls off to school, she was driving another car, or have I got that wrong? I'm sure something about this was mentioned in Constable Ash's statement. I'll have a look in a minute.

I would really like to know if they were forensically examined by police. Maybe it was an oversight? Maybe you can't just impound any car for forensic testing? After visiting Kholo Creek today, whoever placed the body there must have had some plant material on or within their car, no matter how much hosing or vacuuming went on through the wee hours of the morning. Just a thought.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I see no reason why both couldn't be at the seminar. They both worked in real estate property management. I doubt Allison would have questioned her, I doubt TM would have approached her after all being in that industry would see them crossing paths regularly.

But a slip while briefly small talking (intentionally or unintentionally, like women are ) could have happened. GBC had reason to fear a moment like this!

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Some new details on GBC's damages claim against Flight Centre in 2000.

Until now, we only knew there had been a claim made by GBC when his employment was terminated after five months ( http://apps.courts.qld.gov.au/esear...Location=BRISB&Court=DISTR&Filenumber=5135/00 ), something he's managed to omit from his otherwise excruciatingly detailed testimony so far.

<modsnip>

Basically he sued FC for nearly $60k, including things like house rental and storage (!) while Allison was still employed there



Here are the tweets from GBCs version of that time

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Jun 25
Gerard says at this point both he and Allison were unemployed. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Jun 25
Gerard said in August he was made redundant. Both he and his boss, the first Flight Centre people to be made redundant. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Jun 25
Gerard said they found a three bedroom townhouse near his parents house. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Jun 25
Gerard says "because my job was so good" they could afford for Allison to stop working. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Jun 25
Gerard says she was a little more fragile than she was before. She found things with work a bit stressful. #badenclay

https://twitter.com/KateKyriacou

Thank you Neuromancer, but I'm still finding this confusing.
When was it he had such a good job and what was it?
What job did Allison have at the time?
Was this the time when he was making much more than Allison?

Thank you in advance for clarification. I think I need a whiteboard.

 

[Neuromancer]

But a slip while briefly small talking (intentionally or unintentionally, like women are ) could have happened. GBC had reason to fear a moment like this!

Yes I could see why GBC would fear that - he's been telling conflicting stories to the two of them.

I still don't understand TM's hissy fit about it tho. Why would she be freaking out about Allison being there? The last time they ran into each other (at the gym i assume) they both politely ignored each other (then sent nasty texts to GBC, lol)
And her concern seems to be that GBC needs to tell Allison that TM will be there. - Why?

The easy reason would be that TM is just being overly dramatic, but that's the sort of excuse GBC would use. Is there something here we're missing?

 

[LadyBird1]

I have been wondering about Allison's phone - how and why did it go missing? Would GBC have needed it go missing because there was something incriminating on it? Did its absence enable him to keep sending those texts? Did it get dropped in some kind of struggle? Not everyone takes their phone every time they go walking. Surely it wouldn't have raised suspicion if it was simply at home that morning in a place where Allison often left it. Or maybe I'm just completely missing something.

Then there's the matter of GBC's own phone. If he is putting forward the suicide theory, is he seriously suggesting Allison dutifully put his phone on the charger for him at 1:48 am and then somehow after that time set off on a path that led her body to be found far from home at Kholo Creek?

For what it's worth, I think the phone was at 61 Boscombe Road at about 1.10pm 20 April, while Kellie Thompson was speaking with Sgt Curtis. IMO
Why? His reactions were very strange. Instead of saying "Oh thank God! Thankyou. Let's go right there right now."
Instead he may as well have said "Oh s*!#!. I didn't expect a female cop to find it using app...... Bugger! Think quick, get someone to get it, and create a distraction.
Use an innocent distraction. This is a really big stuff up. Bugger. "

Where the phone ended up after that time, is anybody's guess.
What I am saying is this; Unless 61 Boscombe Road place was kept under 100% surveillance from 1.10pm 20 April, onwards, then I will stand corrected.
Did anybody suspect at that time exactly what manner of people they were dealing with?
I mean the DEGREE of sleuthfullness, cunning, manipulation, deflections, outright lies, financial problems, immoral matters etc.

 

[Neuromancer]

Thank you Neuromancer, but I'm still finding this confusing.
When was it he had such a good job and what was it?
What job did Allison have at the time?
Was this the time when he was making much more than Allison?

Thank you in advance for clarification. I think I need a whiteboard.

Lol - can you imagine the whiteboard on this in police HQ?

Those are just the tweets as posted in reverse chronological order on Kate's twitter. I just left them as they were. There may be some more detail in some of the news report on his ramble.

And I forget now which job he suddenly had that paid well (maybe the fresh start in real estate? not sure on timeline). But I thought reading between the lines, they paint a disturbing "narcissists guide to destroying a successful woman"

-lose job
-resent wife who's doing fine at same company
-sue aforementioned company, making it impossible for wife to keep working there
-convince wife that your income is enough and she should start breeding
-keep wife barefoot and pregnant and keep undermining her self-esteem all you can, while telling everyone else she's crazy
-Win!

 

[kiwijayne]

For what it's worth, I think the phone was at 61 Boscombe Road at about 1.10pm 20 April, while Kellie Thompson was speaking with Sgt Curtis.
Why? His reactions were very strange. Might have said Oh *****, didn't expect her to find it using app...... Think quick, get someone to get it, and create a distraction.
Use an innocent distraction. This is a really big stuff up. Bugger.
Where the phone ended up after that time, is anybody's guess.
What I am saying is this; Unless 61 Boscombe Road place was kept under 100% surveillance from 1.10pm 20 April, onwards, then I will stand corrected.
Did anybody suspect at that time exactly what manner of people they were dealing with? I
I mean the DEGREE of sleuthfullness, cunning, manipulation, deflections, outright lies, financial problems, immoral matters etc. All IMO.

I bet you that phone is at the bottom of a waterway somewhere. About a minute from the house is a pond on a neighbouring property, there is a creek along further(and that area was searched as it ran beside houses on Deerhurst Rd), well obviously Kholo Creek, the creek down by the showgrounds and heck OW could have dumped the phone down Savages Rd in the creek there.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

It's not about sausages or mince. It's about BBQ at the seniors or mince at the juniors around the family table - and at what time and especially IF at all.

Although the policewomen asked really age-appropriate questions, I think that these inconsistent responses are also about children's memories and children's comprehension of questions. IMO, these would have been further confounded if, on top of their kid memories, daddy had tried to impose a whole new set of memories.