GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

Status
Not open for further replies.

Oberammergau

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
64
Reaction score
0
I believe GBC will be found guilty of 'murder' (not manslaughter) and guilty of 'interfering with a corpse'.

SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE
No matter how little the Prosecution has said and no matter how much the Defense and GBC in particular say, you can't get away from the 4 pieces of scientific evidence:

1. Scratches on his face - well documented with photographs and heavily supported by qualified experts to WITHIN 100% certainty. (MURDER)

2. Blood in Allison's car which has been DNA-matched to Allison herself. There is no refuting the DNA-matching - it's her blood.

Then the other factors presented:

a) Position/location of the blood
b) The type of blood transfer - smear and single drip/rivulet
c) No other blood smears or blood transfer anywhere else in the car

None of these factors support or gel with a normal everyday cut/injury. (MURDER & INTERFERING WITH A CORPSE)

3. The plant evidence. The expert was extremely thorough in his examination and investigation. As well, his testimony was extremely thorough, clear and well documented. ALL 6 species of plant material found on Allison was present at her home - only 2 species found at Kholo Creek & surrounding area. (MURDER & INTERFERING WITH A CORPSE)

4. The Autopsy Report. While some of the testimony given was a bit unclear for a layman, the general understanding I got was:

No definitive cause of death because of level of decomposition....HOWEVER:

a) No unusually high levels of medication/alcohol - Rules out overdose
b) No broken bones/visible injuries - rules out jumping or falling from bridge
c) No diatoms present - rules out drowning
d) Nothing to indicate death by Natural causes (heart attack, etc)
e) No sexual assault and expensive engagement wedding rings and all clothing intact - rules out attack by stranger/predator/robbery
f) Unable to determine other possible injuries (bruising, knocks, etc) - possible physical attack of some type (by someone) leading to her death
g) Jumper pushed up and bunched around neck with hands entangled within and positioned above her head - indicates she had no control of her body positioning and indicates someone else was involved.
h) Tip of a rubber glove caught within her tangled jumper - indicates the presence of someone else.
(MURDER & INTERFERING WITH A CORPSE)

THERE IS ZERO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE (SO FAR) FROM THE DEFENSE SIDE TO SUPPORT A 'NOT GUILTY' FINDING.

OTHER EXPERT EVIDENCE

4 experts in the medical field (doctor, psychologists & counselor) have discounted suicide with certainty within their expertise and experience.

THE DEFENSE (SO FAR) HAS NOT PRESENTED ANY EXPERTS TO SUPPORT SUICIDE.

MOTIVE

1. Documents and independent witness testimony to support GBC's dire financial position
2. Documents and independent witness testimony to support GBC's affair with TMH and the seriousness of his relationship with her. (emails/texts to support his promises to her of a future together).

THE DEFENSE HAS PROVIDED ZERO DOCUMENTATION OR INDEPENDENT WITNESS TO REFUTE/NEGATE THE ALLEGED FINANCIAL MOTIVE.
(No documents or financial agreements extending/cancelling debt repayments, no financial documents to prove he had any other source or method to meet his debts & expenses.

THE DEFENSE HAS PROVIDED ZERO PROOF OR INDEPENDENT TESTIMONY TO REFUTE/NEGATE THE SERIOUSNESS OF HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH TMH.
(No emails, texts or even witness testimony - apart from the word of GBC himself)

In summary, I believe the Prosecution has presented hard & solid scientific evidence, expert testimony, independent testimony and a lot of documentary evidence.

The Defense has presented gossip, testimony from biased individuals, no scientific evidence, no expert testimony (so far), no documentary evidence and the word of the accused himself (GBC).

While there are many other pieces of evidence/testimony (screams, phone placed on charger at 1.48am, children's testimony, etc) I think alot of it may end up being put aside as inconclusive.

I truly believe all the above is fairly straight-forward and obvious and I believe the Jury are normal people capable of understanding and working this out for themselves.

JUSTICE FOR ALLISON

ps. I'm no medical or science expert, so there's probably flaws in my understanding of things (autopsy report in particular), but I would like to think the Jury are average people just like me. :)
Simply excellent! B
 

Caressa

New Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Hi all - long time lurker here.

I have been interested in the case from the beginning. This case is the reason for my membership with Websleuths.

First of all, I would like to extend a huge thank you to the professionally verified people who explain so well certain aspects of this trial. You know who you are.

I have been in the real estate and finance industry for a number of years and had quite a successful real estate and investment company which was effected by the floods to the extent that we had to close the whole business approx. 6 months after the event. We ended up losing everything.

The problem with these types of flood events, is not only the halt in sales for an extended period of time; but the banks reaction to these events. It is likely that any contract pending finance, would be at risk of the banks pulling the plug due to the change in their risk. In fact, we experienced a major lender (which shall remain un-named) ordering new (post flood) valuations on formally approved finance deals and reneging on the contract due to the properties now being a flood risk. Consequently, the contracts we thought were tight, and equated to future income - crashed.

I was under the impression that the floods were the main factor to the business being in trouble. It appears that this is in fact, not the case.

Quotes to substantiate this are as follows:

Paragraph 25 of the Jocelyn Frost statement -

I think it was a couple of days prior to the floods Gerard called a meeting. This meeting took place in the new office. The meeting was called to tell us about the diabolical state of the financial situation with the company. He was telling us about and amount of money we had coming in and the amount we owed was something substantial like three hundred and fifty thousand. Phil and I were in absolute shock. This was because 2010 was such a great year we wondered where the money had gone.

Paragraph 45 of the Phillip Broom statement -

At around the time of the floods I sold my share of the rent roll to Jocelyn.


Paragraph 46 of the Phillip Broom statement -
In the following seventeen days we had some pretty intense meetings. Jocelyn and I had spent a lot of time trying to work out where the money had gone


This would indicate to me that there were substantial money problems before the floods.

Another thing I find quite curious is that TMH appears to feel that whatever happened to Allison on the night could have been her fault.

Paragraph 36 of the Ben Bassingthwaighte Statement

I called Toni yesterday afternoon at 4.53pm on her mobile etc

I said "how are you?" Toni immediately broke down and started crying and said "I just finished work, I am sitting in my car trying to pull myself together. This is a mess I am responsible for her running off".

Paragraph 37 of the Ben Bassingthwaighte Statement

Toni said words to the effect of "Allison probably had someone pick her up and she is ok and trying Gerard a lesson." [sic]

This would indicate to me that Gerard may have told Toni that he discussed "certain things" with Allison on the night of the 19th.

One more thing re Panic Attacks that I have to respectfully disagree with:

*Allison’s depression/panic attacks: In reference to the comment that Allison was so panicked that she would “pass out” behind the wheel – in my history of psychological research (I have a degree in psych but also a personal interest in the subject, as well as two family members who suffer from panic attacks – one suffers them while driving), NOTHING suggests that a panic attack would lead to the person to “pass out”. In fact, it’s more likely the opposite: the person suffering a panic attacks has their heart hammering, is feeling extreme heat going all up and down their body, can’t breathe properly and is convinced they will die. They are so consciously fearful and panic attacks are so awful that the hyperactive body is not able to simply “pass out”. In my research and from anecdotal research, NO ONE suffering from a panic attack is at risk of passing out. They will instead suffer through it with a heartbeat so accelerated that at times even others can see the hammering movement of their heart through their chest.

I have experienced panic attacks before. You CAN pass out/faint. The first time this happened, I collapsed. My panic attacks would cause me to hyperventilate. This would then cause a tingling sensation in my lips and fingers and then a pressing down sensation on my chest (the first time it happened, I thought I was having a heart attack). I was unfortunate enough to experience one of these when I was driving. Luckily, it wasn't my first and I could identify it for what it was and was able to pull over and breathe into a paper bag to level out my oxygen levels.

It became so bad when I was driving, that I would worry so much about having a panic attack that it would cause a panic attack.
 

marlywings

Former Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
12,282
Reaction score
126
With the bolded bit, this is why prosecution needed a blood spatter expert on the stand - all we have is that it's a transfer pattern.

Yep, sounds good to me. I know everyone says, here and in the real world, that the crown is just letting him hang his own noose, but I still wish more info was given at trial.

With all the tweets flying through at warp speed, did the prosecution actually bring up, at any stage , - opening address, witness, whatever - that GBC contacted the insurance company and tried to lodge the claim before Allison's body was identified? And what about the about-to-expire life insurance itself - was that even mentioned? Especially if the prosecution are using the money as part of the motive?

If not - why the hell not?

If it was, and I missed it - apologies for being a modsnip ;)


Perhaps none of the above is necessary :)
 

McCoy

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
87
Reaction score
0
Hi all - long time lurker here.

I have been interested in the case from the beginning. This case is the reason for my membership with Websleuths.

First of all, I would like to extend a huge thank you to the professionally verified people who explain so well certain aspects of this trial. You know who you are.

I have been in the real estate and finance industry for a number of years and had quite a successful real estate and investment company which was effected by the floods to the extent that we had to close the whole business approx. 6 months after the event. We ended up losing everything.

The problem with these types of flood events, is not only the halt in sales for an extended period of time; but the banks reaction to these events. It is likely that any contract pending finance, would be at risk of the banks pulling the plug due to the change in their risk. In fact, we experienced a major lender (which shall remain un-named) ordering new (post flood) valuations on formally approved finance deals and reneging on the contract due to the properties now being a flood risk. Consequently, the contracts we thought were tight, and equated to future income - crashed.

I was under the impression that the floods were the main factor to the business being in trouble. It appears that this is in fact, not the case.

Quotes to substantiate this are as follows:

Paragraph 25 of the Jocelyn Frost statement -



Paragraph 45 of the Phillip Broom statement -




Paragraph 46 of the Phillip Broom statement -



This would indicate to me that there were substantial money problems before the floods.

Another thing I find quite curious is that TMH appears to feel that whatever happened to Allison on the night could have been her fault.

Paragraph 36 of the Ben Bassingthwaighte Statement





Paragraph 37 of the Ben Bassingthwaighte Statement



This would indicate to me that Gerard may have told Toni that he discussed "certain things" with Allison on the night of the 19th.

One more thing re Panic Attacks that I have to respectfully disagree with:



I have experienced panic attacks before. You CAN pass out/faint. The first time this happened, I collapsed. My panic attacks would cause me to hyperventilate. This would then cause a tingling sensation in my lips and fingers and then a pressing down sensation on my chest (the first time it happened, I thought I was having a heart attack). I was unfortunate enough to experience one of these when I was driving. Luckily, it wasn't my first and I could identify it for what it was and was able to pull over and breathe into a paper bag to level out my oxygen levels.

It became so bad when I was driving, that I would worry so much about having a panic attack that it would cause a panic attack.



Hi Caressa, This is great observation re the timing of Jocelyn's and Phil's concerns re the money. I hope the prosecution pick this up
 

MadDoc

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
213
Reaction score
16
With all the tweets flying through at warp speed, did the prosecution actually bring up, at any stage , - opening address, witness, whatever - that GBC contacted the insurance company and tried to lodge the claim before Allison's body was identified? And what about the about-to-expire life insurance itself - was that even mentioned? Especially if the prosecution are using the money as part of the motive?

If not - why the hell not?

If it was, and I missed it - apologies for being a modsnip ;)

I remember something being said about the reason for him contacting the insurance company so early, was because NBC told him to. Deflecting the blame for odd behaviour onto Dad.
 

AAAA

New Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
622
Reaction score
0
OT, but could someone please tell me how to check for sent messages in pm? I've done it previously but can't seem to find it now. TIA.
 

BJsleuth

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
0
And I hope that the girls never ever read testimony. I think it's deplorable whether innocent or guilty to put on record that Allison really wanted a boy. How would the youngest feel if she ever reads that, regardless of the result. A shameful defence tactic on the part of a father in my opinion.

And Adam's little boy whose birth, on the other side of the world, his family say, upset Allison so much that she suicided. It's not that innocent little baby's fault.
 

kiwijayne

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
769
Reaction score
729
OT, but could someone please tell me how to check for sent messages in pm? I've done it previously but can't seem to find it now. TIA.

go into the message screen. Hover over private messages on the left hand of the screen and you get and option to click sent messages
 

marlywings

Former Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
12,282
Reaction score
126
OT, but could someone please tell me how to check for sent messages in pm? I've done it previously but can't seem to find it now. TIA.

A couple of ways...go into private messages "Jump to Folder", click on the down arrow, in drop down box click "sent items"

OR on top blue bar, "User CP" (User control panel) look down left side to "private messages" click on the small down arrow to see "inbox" or "sent items"
 

minusfour

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
638
Reaction score
2,571
OT, but could someone please tell me how to check for sent messages in pm? I've done it previously but can't seem to find it now. TIA.

If you go to your private messages, and click on "inbox", a menu will drop down, click on "sent messages"
(I can't believe I answered a "techo" question, being quite, well, "slow" about all things technical.

Mad Doc, you are right, the father did cover that "early claim" business, I guess it is less useful info if there is a question mark about it.

About Allison walking- I know that her parents and nearly everyone else said it wasn't something she did, but her daughters said she did go walking in the mornings, and described what she would wear. (I know, it doesn't matter)
 

BJsleuth

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
0
With all the tweets flying through at warp speed, did the prosecution actually bring up, at any stage , - opening address, witness, whatever - that GBC contacted the insurance company and tried to lodge the claim before Allison's body was identified? And what about the about-to-expire life insurance itself - was that even mentioned? Especially if the prosecution are using the money as part of the motive?

If not - why the hell not?

If it was, and I missed it - apologies for being a modsnip ;)

Not that I know of Doc. All I heard was that Allison had contacted them before her death and NBC said it was he who told G to call them after the event.
 

Milisi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
69
Reaction score
318
I believe GBC will be found guilty of 'murder' (not manslaughter) and guilty of 'interfering with a corpse'.

SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE
No matter how little the Prosecution has said and no matter how much the Defense and GBC in particular say, you can't get away from the 4 pieces of scientific evidence:

1. Scratches on his face - well documented with photographs and heavily supported by qualified experts to WITHIN 100% certainty. (MURDER)

2. Blood in Allison's car which has been DNA-matched to Allison herself. There is no refuting the DNA-matching - it's her blood.

Then the other factors presented:

a) Position/location of the blood
b) The type of blood transfer - smear and single drip/rivulet
c) No other blood smears or blood transfer anywhere else in the car

None of these factors support or gel with a normal everyday cut/injury. (MURDER & INTERFERING WITH A CORPSE)

3. The plant evidence. The expert was extremely thorough in his examination and investigation. As well, his testimony was extremely thorough, clear and well documented. ALL 6 species of plant material found on Allison was present at her home - only 2 species found at Kholo Creek & surrounding area. (MURDER & INTERFERING WITH A CORPSE)

4. The Autopsy Report. While some of the testimony given was a bit unclear for a layman, the general understanding I got was:

No definitive cause of death because of level of decomposition....HOWEVER:

a) No unusually high levels of medication/alcohol - Rules out overdose
b) No broken bones/visible injuries - rules out jumping or falling from bridge
c) No diatoms present - rules out drowning
d) Nothing to indicate death by Natural causes (heart attack, etc)
e) No sexual assault and expensive engagement wedding rings and all clothing intact - rules out attack by stranger/predator/robbery
f) Unable to determine other possible injuries (bruising, knocks, etc) - possible physical attack of some type (by someone) leading to her death
g) Jumper pushed up and bunched around neck with hands entangled within and positioned above her head - indicates she had no control of her body positioning and indicates someone else was involved.
h) Tip of a rubber glove caught within her tangled jumper - indicates the presence of someone else.
(MURDER & INTERFERING WITH A CORPSE)

THERE IS ZERO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE (SO FAR) FROM THE DEFENSE SIDE TO SUPPORT A 'NOT GUILTY' FINDING.

OTHER EXPERT EVIDENCE

4 experts in the medical field (doctor, psychologists & counselor) have discounted suicide with certainty within their expertise and experience.

THE DEFENSE (SO FAR) HAS NOT PRESENTED ANY EXPERTS TO SUPPORT SUICIDE.

MOTIVE

1. Documents and independent witness testimony to support GBC's dire financial position
2. Documents and independent witness testimony to support GBC's affair with TMH and the seriousness of his relationship with her. (emails/texts to support his promises to her of a future together).

THE DEFENSE HAS PROVIDED ZERO DOCUMENTATION OR INDEPENDENT WITNESS TO REFUTE/NEGATE THE ALLEGED FINANCIAL MOTIVE.
(No documents or financial agreements extending/cancelling debt repayments, no financial documents to prove he had any other source or method to meet his debts & expenses.

THE DEFENSE HAS PROVIDED ZERO PROOF OR INDEPENDENT TESTIMONY TO REFUTE/NEGATE THE SERIOUSNESS OF HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH TMH.
(No emails, texts or even witness testimony - apart from the word of GBC himself)

In summary, I believe the Prosecution has presented hard & solid scientific evidence, expert testimony, independent testimony and a lot of documentary evidence.

The Defense has presented gossip, testimony from biased individuals, no scientific evidence, no expert testimony (so far), no documentary evidence and the word of the accused himself (GBC).

While there are many other pieces of evidence/testimony (screams, phone placed on charger at 1.48am, children's testimony, etc) I think alot of it may end up being put aside as inconclusive.

I truly believe all the above is fairly straight-forward and obvious and I believe the Jury are normal people capable of understanding and working this out for themselves.

JUSTICE FOR ALLISON

ps. I'm no medical or science expert, so there's probably flaws in my understanding of things (autopsy report in particular), but I would like to think the Jury are average people just like me. :)
This is absolute gold. So succinct and so obvious. Once I read it my instinct was attuned. Thank you muchly!
 

Cattail

New Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
337
Reaction score
0
On an ipad?


I just had a look on my iPad. Click on private messages. Then it shows private messages
In folder inbox with a little arrow. Click the arrow and there is the option of sent items.HTH :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

AAAA

New Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
622
Reaction score
0
Can you see your inbox?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes and I go to sent messages but it comes up with 0 messages, and I've sent two tonight. I saw that they were sent. Nevermind, I'll work it out. Goodnight to all. Here's to tomorrow, a big day hopefully.
 

BJsleuth

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
0
We didn't hear from the Forensic Accountant, the business partners. Did the defence have it excluded somehow?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top