GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Stick]

13km is not too far to walk, especially if you're pissed off and on a mission and you know where you're headed. You've got all night - 13km is nothing. And if you've taken the pills (and I say this because a good family friend did this last year in north Qld, took the pills and crawled under a bridge to die), then it's only a matter of time. Sleep time.

I realise I am playing the worst devil's advocate ever here. I realise this flies in the face of most sentiments previously expressed, including my own. BBut I also feel that if this is a true crime-busting forum, we must discount all possibilities.

I like a good alternate theory, but this still remains highly implausible, imo.

For example, surely you concede the scratches on GBC's face were not from a razor?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Sounds like something GBC would have said.....

Funny but true.

Probably one of his spins he'd like to sell us but his defense team advised against it. But who knows, he's on a roll at the moment, his mind is most likely going over it as we speak. :abnormal: jmho

 

[Trooper]

13km is not too far to walk, especially if you're pissed off and on a mission and you know where you're headed. You've got all night - 13km is nothing. And if you've taken the pills (and I say this because a good family friend did this last year in north Qld, took the pills and crawled under a bridge to die), then it's only a matter of time. Sleep time.

I realise I am playing the worst devil's advocate ever here. I realise this flies in the face of most sentiments previously expressed, including my own. BBut I also feel that if this is a true crime-busting forum, we must discount all possibilities.

its something that has crossed my mind.. way back.. mainly because he appeared to be so stupid, I figured she might have done it to stop that voice in her head.. . Gerard blithering..it was a nanoseconds thought, nothing more.


But then.. she didn't change the beneficiary of her insurance.. this is a woman who was murdered.. she isn't going to leave that to Gerard and his backseat passengers.. no way. ..

the fact that the mobile phone is missing is a dead certainty that she didn't kill herself... one hangs on to that till the last breath.. its a real flag to me that she was murdered..

 

[Neuromancer]

Thanks Neuro. I have not been privy to information on the exact location of her body - I must delve further.

What you are describing appears on the surface to indicate a strategy to get her body into the creek, without leaving footprints, or to position it away from visibility from the road or air.

Certainly casts greater doubt on a "jump from bridge" suicide theory, hence the reason GBC's defence is hinging upon the thin notion of an OD.

Here's the photo I was referring to

and there are other photos on this page http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246322&page=3 that kinda show the path down (there's not one photo with the lot though)

 

[marlywings]

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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167277"]Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Mr Marple]

Hey there guys. Love reading all the posts. I was in court today and it was truly one of the most bizarre things I have seen. When GBC mentioned being in Switzerland i think it may have been, and enjoyed going out with Allison and having a Toblerone as if it was very important, I truly struggled to keep a straight face.

 

[Radster]

Point taken - it's about a 3-hour brisk walk from the BC house to Kholo. And pretty hilly, as you would know. (Ever tried walking up Barnes Hill past Anstead?)

And I guess we would have to count the possibility that Allison COULD have walked it.

But even a whole pack of Zoloft (and that pack that was in her car was already a few days old) wouldn't kill her. Also, it would have made her ability to walk that far highly unlikely if she'd taken them before setting out. She would have been getting very drowsy and light-headed.

And if she took a pack with her to take them when she got there - where was that pack?

And again I ask - why there? If she was going to do that, why not just crawl under the bridge right in the middle of Brookfield? Or into one of the dams?

So - possible, but highly improbable, IMHO.

:blushing:

Exactly, Doc. Highly improbable, almost unbelievable. But then why would Gerard have chosen a Scout location of all places? Why somewhere that Allison's body might never have been found if he needed that insurance money? What I'm saying is ... NOTHING MAKES SENSE HERE.

Gerard isn't the first man to have affairs, to run into financial trouble, to be unhappy in his marriage, to be a complete and utter areshole protected by an understanding family. The murder part needs to be considered on its own merits (wrong word). It needs to be considered on its own. I am putting myself in the spot of the jury member here and thinking, okay, what if anything is possible? If he killed her, then how? Strangulation? No evidence. Blow to the head? No evidence. Suicide? Also, no evidence (except for the elevated Sertraline levels)

I'm just saying ... he's going to get off. After everything we've all debated and deconstructed and analysed and laughed over and cried over, he's going to get off. That's how I see things right now. I need to sleep.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

respectfully snipped ~

Nuts, right? Or not.

I wrote a reply up thread, but your post suddenly reminded me of a movie, called Leave Her To Heaven starring the beautiful Gene Tierney. She framed her hubby for her murder. Love the movie, seen it so many times.

 

[sosocurious]

Mr Byrne said Baden Clay was working on Cheesemans house renovations at Pullenvale that day and rushed home for Parent Teacher interviews that night.
He said Baden Clay's mother picked the children up from school and he joined them later for a BBQ.
So what time at night were these Parent Teacher interviews?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...dering-wife-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-12

 

[Snails]

Hey there guys. Love reading all the posts. I was in court today and it was truly one of the most bizarre things I have seen. When GBC mentioned being in Switzerland i think it may have been, and enjoyed going out with Allison and having a Toblerone as if it was very important, I truly struggled to keep a straight face.

Would love to hear more of your thoughts from today. I'm guessing the Toblerone moment was before the major revelation that he did not, in fact, breastfeed his children. I'm kind of stuck on that moment so please forgive me.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Hey there guys. Love reading all the posts. I was in court today and it was truly one of the most bizarre things I have seen. When GBC mentioned being in Switzerland i think it may have been, and enjoyed going out with Allison and having a Toblerone as if it was very important, I truly struggled to keep a straight face.

Omg Mr Marple! I'm gobsmacked! :scared:

 

[DrWatson]

<Respectfully snipped>

Suicide? Also, no evidence (except for the elevated Sertraline levels)

I'm just saying ... he's going to get off. After everything we've all debated and deconstructed and analysed and laughed over and cried over, he's going to get off. That's how I see things right now. I need to sleep.

Minor correction, Radster - the sertraline levels weren't elevated. The defence and the toxicologist were talking at cross purposes. The defence kept waffling about normal levels - but was referring to normal peripheral blood levels.

The samples taken from Allison's body were from the liver - it was liver blood and liver tissue. And sertraline - like many drugs - is concentrated in the liver, with levels there being several orders of magnitude higher than found in peripheral blood. And this is what the toxicologist was referring to. The fact that the sertraline levels in the liver were normal. They were within the normal ranges that would be expected due to liver concentration plus a phenomenon called post-mortem redistribution.

That's why the toxicologist said that there was no sign of overdose.

 

[HoolyDooly]

its something that has crossed my mind.. way back.. mainly because he appeared to be so stupid, I figured she might have done it to stop that voice in her head.. . Gerard blithering..it was a nanoseconds thought, nothing more.


But then.. she didn't change the beneficiary of her insurance.. this is a woman who was murdered.. she isn't going to leave that to Gerard and his backseat passengers.. no way. ..

the fact that the mobile phone is missing is a dead certainty that she didn't kill herself... one hangs on to that till the last breath.. its a real flag to me that she was murdered..

Agreed Trooper, she would think of her kids' future, but it is because of her girls she would NOT commit suicide.
Also Troop, just asking, TMH has an alibi doesn't she? I am certain I have read she does.

 

[Radster]

its something that has crossed my mind.. way back.. mainly because he appeared to be so stupid, I figured she might have done it to stop that voice in her head.. . Gerard blithering..it was a nanoseconds thought, nothing more.


But then.. she didn't change the beneficiary of her insurance.. this is a woman who was murdered.. she isn't going to leave that to Gerard and his backseat passengers.. no way. ..

the fact that the mobile phone is missing is a dead certainty that she didn't kill herself... one hangs on to that till the last breath.. its a real flag to me that she was murdered..

Re: insurance money ... true dat. But if I was going to kill myself (now there's a cheery sentence I shall never utter again), I wouldn't destroy my phone. I would - oh wait, that's what you're saying. Makes sense. Sheesh, as you were.

Trooper, when are you going to write a book? I want to buy it!

 

[Radster]

Minor correction, Radster - the sertraline levels weren't elevated. The defence and the toxicologist were talking at cross purposes. The defence kept waffling about normal levels - but was referring to normal peripheral blood levels.

The samples taken from Allison's body were from the liver - it was liver blood and liver tissue. And sertraline - like many drugs - is concentrated in the liver, with levels there being several orders of magnitude higher than found in peripheral blood. And this is what the toxicologist was referring to. The fact that the sertraline levels in the liver were normal. They were within the normal ranges that would be expected due to liver concentration plus a phenomenon called post-mortem redistribution.

That's why the toxicologist said that there was no sign of overdose.

Excellent point, Doc. But is the distinction clear enough for the jury (12 very normal folk)? Hopefully.

 

[Mr Marple]

Would love to hear more of your thoughts from today. I'm guessing the Toblerone moment was before the major revelation that he did not, in fact, breastfeed his children. I'm kind of stuck on that moment so please forgive me.

I'm stuck on the whole thing. He was absolutely loving the opportunity to talk about himself. He could go on for so long we may never even get to a verdict. Another moment was when he told how he proposed to Allison under the Eiffel Tower on Park Road. Which is a small fake tower on top of a french bistro near Brisbane CBD.

 

[Aunty]

Could this be where G took his 'dates'. Is that why he thought it was safe. He had already tested it out?

Yes, and did he do his last test the night before, Allison was murdered?

NBC said G&A went out for a coffee for about 1/2 hr.
Gerard now says they went up to Mt Cootha, no mention of coffee, just talking.
The stories are not matching. Something is not quite right ?

I wonder if Allison wanted to be shown exactly where Gerard and TM had met up and :blushing: in the back of snowy ?
I wonder if Gerard took Allison to the Scout Camp and not to Mt Cootha the night prior to her murder ?
It has been mentioned that he met TMH in places where they felt safe and would not get caught. Gerard probably knew this area very very well at night.

So, on the night of the murder, he instinctively, and quickly, drives back to the Scout Camp, to hide Allison and his crime.
He soon realises that he needs to make it look like she took her own life, so he makes the final decision to dispose of Allison, at the bottom of the bridge.

On the way home he realises that Allison will have needed to walk a bloody long way to end up there. So that's why he needed to reinvent a new fit , weight loss early rising - Allison.

Allison walked nights, walked mornings, gym gear, strong, fit, active , but she was also depressed, lazy, suicidal, slept all day etc.

So on Monday , Gerard will take the stand again, and predictably try to convince the jury, that Allison fits snugly into his reinvention of her. :moo:
Hopefully the Jury will see right through his lies, like we can.

 

[Radster]

Yes, and did he do his last test the night before, Allison was murdered?

NBC said G&A went out for a coffee for about 1/2 hr.
Gerard now says they went up to Mt Cootha, no mention of coffee, just talking.
The stories are not matching. Something is not quite right ?

I wonder if Allison wanted to be shown exactly where Gerard and TM had met up and :blushing: in the back of snowy ?
I wonder if Gerard took Allison to the Scout Camp and not to Mt Cootha the night prior to her murder ?
It has been mentioned that he met TMH in places where they felt safe and would not get caught. Gerard probably knew this area very very well at night.

So, on the night of the murder, he instinctively, and quickly, drives back to the Scout Camp, to hide Allison and his crime.
He soon realises that he needs to make it look like she took her own life, so he makes the final decision to dispose of Allison, at the bottom of the bridge.

On the way home he realises that Allison will have needed to walk a bloody long way to end up there. So that's why he needed to reinvent a new fit , weight loss early rising - Allison.

Allison walked nights, walked mornings, gym gear, strong, fit, active , but she was also depressed, lazy, suicidal, slept all day etc.

So on Monday , Gerard will take the stand again, and predictably try to convince the jury, that Allison fits snugly into his reinvention of her. :moo:
Hopefully the Jury will see right through his lies, like we can.

This, too, sounds very plausible. With so many possibilities, will the jury convict?

 

[sosocurious]

Yes, and did he do his last test the night before, Allison was murdered?

NBC said G&A went out for a coffee for about 1/2 hr.
Gerard now says they went up to Mt Cootha, no mention of coffee, just talking.
The stories are not matching. Something is not quite right ?

I wonder if Allison wanted to be shown exactly where Gerard and TM had met up and :blushing: in the back of snowy ?
I wonder if Gerard took Allison to the Scout Camp and not to Mt Cootha the night prior to her murder ?
It has been mentioned that he met TMH in places where they felt safe and would not get caught. Gerard probably knew this area very very well at night.

So, on the night of the murder, he instinctively, and quickly, drives back to the Scout Camp, to hide Allison and his crime.
He soon realises that he needs to make it look like she took her own life, so he makes the final decision to dispose of Allison, at the bottom of the bridge.

On the way home he realises that Allison will have needed to walk a bloody long way to end up there. So that's why he needed to reinvent a new fit , weight loss early rising - Allison.

Allison walked nights, walked mornings, gym gear, strong, fit, active , but she was also depressed, lazy, suicidal, slept all day etc.

So on Monday , Gerard will take the stand again, and predictably try to convince the jury, that Allison fits snugly into his reinvention of her. :moo:
Hopefully the Jury will see right through his lies, like we can.

TMH was asked in her statement if she and GBC had met at Anstead Reserve.

 

[marlywings]

Here's the photo I was referring to

and there are other photos on this page http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246322&page=3 that kinda show the path down (there's not one photo with the lot though)

There's a huge amount of photos taken by locals at this link...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178134"]PICTURES from our locals *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]