GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #4

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Thinking, I will confess that very early on in Allison's disappearance, I wondered if there'd been some self harm and GBC had somehow tried to spare everyone its discovery and maintain his wife's privacy and dignity. For obvious reasons, I no longer think that's even remotely possible.

I really truly have tried, mainly for the sake of those little girls, to nut out an alternative scenario whereby someone/thing else is responsible, based on the admitted evidence. But I just can't. I always hit a wall with one or other known/admitted fact.

The case is, of course, circumstantial. There may well be evidentiary 'holes', the reasons for which we may never know, but to my mind, the essential elements of the crime have been proven and proven against the accused, beyond reasonable doubt. Other minds will differ and that is the beauty and the beast of our system.
 
The jurors have each been handed a copy of the floor plan.
At the house, jurors were asked to have a look at specific areas like the carport, the driveway, as well as where the bedrooms were in the house

The jurors have each been handed a hard copy of the phone log

Jurors were given a booklet of maps and photographs to compare with the scene and were asked to take note of the distance between the bridge itself and down to the lower bank of Kholo Creek Bridge.
They were asked to look at the side access to the creek, as well as the creek itself.

The jurors' bus also travelled past neighbouring homes where witnesses reported hearing screams and noises on the night Allison disappeared

Justice Michael Byrne told the jury the tour was not evidence, but would help them understand and interpret evidence.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-...ry-see-site-where-allisons-body-found/5542460
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-13-week-4-20140701-3b55i.html#ixzz36BXO81s5
 
With the picture painted of TM as volatile, quick to anger, throwing things - I could very easily believe she did scratch him. But I can't see why he wouldn't have told the police it was her if she had done it.
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If TM was responsible, and in fact his Parents didn't notice when he picked up the children (if indeed GBC did pick them up, and NBC chose not to tell the Court of that) then it would have to have occurred later in the evening, which takes us to an entirely different scenario .... and possibly also one with TM being involved.
 
How to Open a Century 21 Franchise
Ensure a net worth of at least $100,000 in order to cover the $25,000 franchising fee and initial start-up costs.
Evaluate your commitment level. Century 21 requires a minimum 10-year franchise agreement.

Plan to personally oversee all day-to-day operations at your franchise location, as Century 21 does not permit absentee owners/operators.

(Ooops GBC is AWOL)

http://m.wikihow.com/Open-a-Century-21-Franchise
This site is possibly American.
-----------------------
Startup Costs, Ongoing Fees and Financing

Total Investment: $22,343 - $528,285
Franchise Fee: $12,500 - $25,000
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Net Worth: $1,000,000
Liquid Cash Available: $250,000

http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/century21realestatellc/284269-0.html

I worked for another high profile real estate franchise 15 years ago and their MONTHLY franchise fees were $12,000 per month to have the name.
 
Re the bolded. Much, if not all, of the "depression" comments came from the accused murderer and his family. Numerous doctors have shown that Allison was not the depressed individual GBC and co have painted. Allison's family and friends also stated how happy she was and looking forward to the future.

In my opinion, GBC has, for many years, used the depression angle and exaggerated it as an excuse to hitch up with other women.

It's obvious in his mammoth spiel in court..."poor me, bad sad Allison" on and on he went along that same line.
I reconnise GBC and his family have harped on about depression but the fact remains she was prescribed Zoloft for depression and she had Zoloft in her pathology. She was being actively treated for depression.
 
I reconnise GBC and his family have harped on about depression but the fact remains she was prescribed Zoloft for depression and she had Zoloft in her pathology. She was being actively treated for depression.

This is very true. Also his descriptions of living with someone with depression ring true to me.

If GBC had left the car at Kholo Creek and made his own way home I could possibly accept suicide as a plausible alternative.

But the location with no means of getting there rules it out in my mind.

I would more easily believe murder by someone else than suicide.


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This is very true. Also his descriptions of living with someone with depression ring true to me.

If GBC had left the car at Kholo Creek and made his own way home I could possibly accept suicide as a plausible alternative.

But the location with no means of getting there rules it out in my mind.

I would more easily believe murder by someone else than suicide.


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I could relate a story about living with someone with depression too.....all I need to do is spend two years in a library or on the internet......just because GBC can relate a story does not make it true.
 
I could relate a story about living with someone with depression too.....all I need to do is spend two years in a library or on the internet......just because GBC can relate a story does not make it true.

Maybe.


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This is very true. Also his descriptions of living with someone with depression ring true to me.

If GBC had left the car at Kholo Creek and made his own way home I could possibly accept suicide as a plausible alternative.

But the location with no means of getting there rules it out in my mind.

I would more easily believe murder by someone else than suicide.


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I have wondered why he didn't do this if he planned to make it look like suicide. Especially if a second person, with a second car, might have helped after the fact. To me it suggests he didn't have time to think it through?

I really don't see how whether Allison was depressed is relevant in any way. Even if she did suicide (I have never believed for one second that she did), SOMEONE took her to Kohlo Creek.
 
I reconnise GBC and his family have harped on about depression but the fact remains she was prescribed Zoloft for depression and she had Zoloft in her pathology. She was being actively treated for depression.

Yes we understand that but at the time her depression was under control.

Or perhaps someone forced Zoloft into her before she was killed so it would be seen on the pathology and the BC's could use that to their advantage?
 
I have wondered why he didn't do this if he planned to make it look like suicide. Especially if a second person, with a second car, might have helped after the fact. To me it suggests he didn't have time to think it through?

I really don't see how whether Allison was depressed is relevant in any way. Even if she did suicide (I have never believed for one second that she did), SOMEONE took her to Kohlo Creek.

Yes no time to think it through I agree. I don't think this was planned. It may have even been previously imagined in an abstract way but not planned for that night.


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People are treated for depression because they themselves seek medical help. Their doctor assesses their level of depression and the need for medication based on what the patient themselves shares with them. As Dr Schramm admitted himself, he had never met or treated Allison, and could only give opinions based on files he was shown. No amount of tut-tutting or tales or how badly Allison was coping from the BC family can make Allison's illness any more or less serious than it actually was - they had no part in her treatment or the information used to guide her treatment. What they have shared in statements and on the witness stand has naught to do with Allison's health at the time of her death. I wonder if they were constantly hovering and offering to help when she was alive - especially when she was increasingly busy with 4 different jobs near the time of her death? I think not. We know Allison's parents had offered her a safe haven and place to stay in order to get away from GBC - and now we sadly know that would have been of great assistance to her health and well being.






c
 
How to Open a Century 21 Franchise
Ensure a net worth of at least $100,000 in order to cover the $25,000 franchising fee and initial start-up costs.
Evaluate your commitment level. Century 21 requires a minimum 10-year franchise agreement.

Plan to personally oversee all day-to-day operations at your franchise location, as Century 21 does not permit absentee owners/operators.

(Ooops GBC is AWOL)

http://m.wikihow.com/Open-a-Century-21-Franchise
This site is possibly American.
-----------------------
Startup Costs, Ongoing Fees and Financing

Total Investment: $22,343 - $528,285
Franchise Fee: $12,500 - $25,000
Ongoing Royalty Fee: 6%
Term of Franchise Agreement: 10 years
FINANCIAL REQUIREMENTS
Net Worth: $1,000,000
Liquid Cash Available: $250,000

http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/century21realestatellc/284269-0.html

I worked for another high profile real estate franchise 15 years ago and their MONTHLY franchise fees were $12,000 per month to have the name.

not that it matters in this trial, but I do wonder where Nige Elaine and Gerard came up with that original paper work to show they , collectively , were worth $100,000,000.00 and had $250,000.00 liquid cash when they 'bought' that franchise..
 
Allison had a mental health assessment ....

Allison Baden-Clay received a score of 18 of 50; 50 is the highest level of distress.

“My conclusion was there wasn't a significant level of distress,” Bourke told the court. He later added that his overall opinion was that his patient was not a high risk of suicide.
 
I reconnise GBC and his family have harped on about depression but the fact remains she was prescribed Zoloft for depression and she had Zoloft in her pathology. She was being actively treated for depression.

He said the recalculation of the sertraline levels in Ms Baden-Clay’s stomach amounted back to the size of one tablet.

http://m.news.com.au/QLD/pg/2/fi11781342.htm
 
This is very true. Also his descriptions of living with someone with depression ring true to me.

If GBC had left the car at Kholo Creek and made his own way home I could possibly accept suicide as a plausible alternative.

But the location with no means of getting there rules it out in my mind.

I would more easily believe murder by someone else than suicide.


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But for the car, as this was never stolen and was available to G to search in.

And also no cause of death to confirm suicide.
 
I am going to have a drink and cheer myself with the thought that by this time tomorrow it could be all over red rover for Mr Gerred descended from scouts Baden Clay :)


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I suspect G wanted to make the death look like foul play, hence the missing phone, but I don't think he had nutted out all the finer details, and the blood in the car & scratches really messed with his story IMO
 
I have re-read a lot of the bail application docs today. What a different perspective it paints of G than the one he is professing in court. Very enlightening and damming for G. I highly recommend them. They are all available on WS, but I'm sorry I'm not savvy enough to provide the link. Ex-business partners J frost, P Broom, and B Bass are the ones I found really interesting. G certainly wasn't booking Toni for sales in their eyes, it was love :liar:

<modsnip>
 
I am going to have a drink and cheer myself with the thought that by this time tomorrow it could be all over red rover for Mr Gerred descended from scouts Baden Clay :)


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I will be in court so will report back when I can.
 
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