General Discussion #7

Discussion in 'Janet Christiansen Abaroa' started by chicoliving, Oct 26, 2005.

  1. chicoliving

    chicoliving Former Member

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    Continue here! :)
     
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  3. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    I've been wondering if there was some significance to Raven calling his site "Ravenstree". Nothing yet but here is some interesting information about ravens:

    Ravens, crows, wildlife information - DesertUSA

    The raven is often confused with its close relative, the crow, but there are major differences between the two species that are apparent when crows and ravens are seen together. Ravens are more solitary than crows ...

    Ravens eat rodents, insects, grain, fruit, bird eggs and refuse. They consume much carrion, especially in winter and will even prey upon sick and injured animals...

    A raven is every bit as alert as a crow and possesses sharp eyesight and hearing. Ravens are considered among the most intelligent of all birds; like crows, they can learn to imitate a variety of sounds, including the human voice...

    Many cultures have regarded the raven as an omen of death, pestilence and disease...

    Breeding & Nesting

    The birds nest in a variety of locations. In southern Utah, ravens build large stick nests in a variety of locations, depending upon their nesting territory. Many nest sites are in alcoves or large fractures in cliff walls, or on protected ledges that are well shaded. But I've also observed nests builtin small shrubs, on bridge underpasses, telephone poles and signposts along railroads. Wherever there is a suitable platform to build a nest, that is a potential raven nesting area...

    Common Raven Fact Sheet

    ... With a 4 ½ foot wingspan, the common raven is the largest of the birds classified by biologists as songbirds. They are considered to be extremely intelligent and will bury or store surplus food. They will hide their stored food under rocks or small holes in the ground and conceal their stash with leaves, twigs or other debris.
     
  4. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    The Redfern Gallery--Mark Rossi

    A piece of artwork called "Raven Tree". Raven did mention in his Classmates.com bio that he enjoys the arts/museums, etc. The artist lives in Tucson, Arizona.
     
  5. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    Joshua Tree NP

    ... Ravens were uncommon in the California deserts in the first half of the 20th century; wildlife biologists now estimate that raven populations have increased here by approximately 1000 percent in the last 35 years. How has this happened? Although the question cannot be answered with any finality, much of the raven’s success seems to hinge on its innate intelligence and its ability to exploit conditions provided by human habitation. Wherever people are, ravens thrive. They are world-class opportunists...

    Even before recorded history, Native Americans told many stories about the raven, the majority of which characterized it as a mischievous and clever animal...

    These birds are very gregarious and sometimes form groups composed of as many as one hundred individuals. Their ability to produce a wide range of sounds may attest to a sophisticated avian vocabulary that, although largely impenetrable to humans, allows them to express themselves and communicate a vast amount of information crucial to their survival...

    Ravens are neither predators nor scavengers—they are both. Some of their energy income is collected through predation while another portion is obtained by scavenging, but when people unwittingly provide them with fast food in the form of dog chow or shredded fishheads, why should they bother to hunt for a gourmet meal? They’re shrewd enough to grab what they can, when they can. And grab they do...
     
  6. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    Crow City
    ... There are many tales from antiquity to the present day about the wisdom and cunning of the raven. The raven who wished for a drink when the water was too low in the tank is an example; he collected stones from nearby and dropped them into the tank, thus heightening the level of the water. And it was not the dove but the raven whom Noah first sent forth from the ark to spy for land. The raven did not return, however, since it was too busy feeding on the floating corpses of the drowned ...
     
  7. terminatrixator

    terminatrixator All Posts JMO - May Godspeed Justice for Janet and

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    Wow, JG, great information, seems like he was named correctly, as he is The Raven.
     
  8. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    The Hotcâk Arrival Myth

    Tells a brief story followed by this commentary:

    This story probably originated within the Bear Clan. In version 3 of the Bear Clan Origin Myth, the founders of the clan changed into ravens (crows) as they were crossing the waters. When they arrived on land, they changed back into bears. Because they changed twice, they were held to have greater power. [2] It may also be of interest that a raven is included as one of the items of the Thunderbird Warbundle. [3] The first man to land and to be recognized as chief would be expected to be a member of the Thunderbird Clan, as the chief is always drawn from that clan...
     
  9. ewwwinteresting

    ewwwinteresting New Member

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    Raven, raven sitting in his tree
    cheating, lying and committing felonies
    First comes probation
    Then comes an arrest
    Then comes the color orange, which suits you best!
     
  10. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    "Raven" is part of the Thunder phratry.

    The Menominee clan system is an example of the sophistication and culture found throughout early tribal groups in the Americas. In the system, each phratry was an excellent source of expertise and knowledge, in specific areas. Based on these areas, each one performed a specific duty: ​

    Bear - Speakers and keepers of the law.

    Thunderers - Freedom and justice.

    Moose - Community or individual security.

    Crane- Architecture, construction, and art.

    Wolf - Hunting and gathering.
     
  11. lauriej

    lauriej 'wild rose country...'

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    ..good digging Jersey.........

    "Even before recorded history, Native Americans told many stories about the raven, the majority of which characterized it as a mischievous and clever animal..."

    .....mischievious? i'm sure he thinks so.... clever ? guess we'll see.
     
  12. lauriej

    lauriej 'wild rose country...'

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    terminatrixator [​IMG] vbmenu_register("postmenu_860234", true);
    Registered User
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Posts: 274


    Boy & Girl
    Welcome SimonSays,

    Boy marries, girl, girl, finds out her husband is cheating, girl find outs she's pregnant, girl has baby, boy probably cheats more, boy spends all his money on toys, boy doesn't pay his bills, boy buys more toys, boy talks about his knife collection, boy lies, boy cheats, boy embezzles from his firm, boy gets fired, boy can't keep a job, girl finds out she's expecting a baby, girl is a mother of a 6-month old child, girl is beautiful, girl is smart, girl is good, boy writes about changes coming up in his life, next day girl is brutaly murdered along with her unborn child, boy tells LE girl hurt, boy tells LE girl shot, girl died of multiple stab wounds, boy tells people girl committed suicide, boy tells people she died, boy doesn't ask public for information, boy's family starts a trust fund day after MURDER in another state, boy takes child and moves to other state, boy doesn't contact LE regarding girl's murder, boy finally goes to court on embezzlement charges, boy tells people it was misdemeanor, boy lied, boy is a convicted felon, boy plays soccer, boy takes online classes, boy goes to singles functions, boy travels, boy pawns his motherless child on others, boy has anger issues, boy out walking the streets, playing with his toys, working part-time jobs, boy lies on resumes, boy likes lying, denying, and snivelling, boy is murderer, girl and baby are gone, boy is bad, bad person.

    Not the End!




    ...i didn't take the post 'lightly' or as 'humourous' ............but, in a nut-shell, there you have it.......

    ..for those new to the case----------excellent summation.......( but do click on the threads and read more.............interesting stuff..)

    ..Welcome SimonSays! a new prospective is always refreshing, please post your thoughts.......:)

    ..( i'm not able to post/read here as much as i'd like to these days----------my hats off to those of you 'hard at it, and continuing on in the name of justice")..hopefully, we WILL see an arrest one of these days, or WAS this the perfect murder ? maybe, time will tell...
     
  13. Moxie

    Moxie She Was...An American Girl...

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    This is good!!
     
  14. terminatrixator

    terminatrixator All Posts JMO - May Godspeed Justice for Janet and

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    Don't know where to post this, but the Media Links Section (do not talk) is not up-to-date. Many of the articles and stories have been archived. When a paper archives an article - the direct link is broken.

    I have a record of all the articles, in order, with their direct links if anyone is looking for an article in particular.

    If an admin or moderator would like me to start reposting them or start a new "Updated" media thread - please feel free to let me know.
     
  15. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    We've got 17 people that voted unsure on the poll about who murdered Janet. Interestingly, we have 9 that have voted for specific murder scenarios that exclude Raven including a "family member", a "jealous female", an "infatuated ex-boyfriend", and "contract killer".

    Since comments tend to get overlooked on that thread, I wanted to bring this up here. I have no problem with other opinions but I'm really curious to know what's leading some people to believe so differently than other people. For those of you that voted in one of the minority categories, please help us to see how you believe the way that you do. What is it that you see in the information that we've all compiled that leads you to believe that Raven did NOT commit this crime?
     
  16. ewwwinteresting

    ewwwinteresting New Member

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    Welcome to the forum here momx3. Finally someone that knows raven speaks out. I bet it was quite a shock to be looking for an old classmate and find out he steals, lies, cheats and possibly murders!:eek: It would be interesting to hear what raven's friends think. I wonder how many of them don't want to think about it?...especially if they are married themselves. I can't imagine any of them wanting to leave their spouse or child alone in a room with raven...that "I'm not positive his innocent" creeps up in their mind often, I bet!
     
  17. terminatrixator

    terminatrixator All Posts JMO - May Godspeed Justice for Janet and

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    You know I believe you are correct here, without an arrest yet, I believe there are those of us that believe he's guilty, but don't quite understand why an arrest hasn't been made yet and are starting to climb back on that proverbial fence. I am willing to bet there are more than one friend of Raven's that is having doubts about his innocence, and are probably afraid to come forward.

    I am willing to bet there are girls from his past, that he may have had dalliances with that are terrified to come forward, very worried about becoming a target or another "Amber Frey."
     
  18. lauriej

    lauriej 'wild rose country...'

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    i don't get to this forum much lately............or online at all actually--------but i still think of "this case"...

    ..i guess you could say i am on "the proverbial fence"..

    ..i was so quick to bash and trash raven initially--but LE has got the statements , the evidence, fingerprints, police reports--------i just can't see why they haven't made an arrest if it's such a certainty that raven did this ?

    ..i hope that raven's "old supporters" WILL come back ---------i'd like to hear what they have to say again, now that i've had time to seriously think over the posts from months ago, there were people here that actually KNEW raven...and janet...scared away ? i don't know....

    ..say what you will, but i feel that raven's friends know a lot more than the posters on this board.......if THEY think he couldn't have done this ..i'm not so sure that they're wrong---------what if he's innocent ? who else do you think could be responsible ? what about the landlord? i remember his name came up initially.....who else ?
     
  19. terminatrixator

    terminatrixator All Posts JMO - May Godspeed Justice for Janet and

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    Thanks for your post Laurij

    I myself will not even look at the fence, let alone climb it, of course, I couldn't pull my big butt up there, so I won't even try.

    I am interested in other theories and really would love to hear any theories that fit.

    I think people on the proverbial fence is a good thing, especially when they are like you and others that actually have something to add or can help me at least look at the fence.
     
  20. Angels_Not_Forgotten

    Angels_Not_Forgotten Anxiously Awaiting a WINNING NFL Season!

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    I understand what your saying Laurij. This is a terrible circumstance and If Raven did not do it, then im ok with that, and I apologize for all I have said. ITs just a sad situation tht seems not to have an end in site. About friends though, Im sure some other murders friends couldnt wouldnt believe it was them either. What strikes me is that SOME of his friends are saying "yes hes capible" or some people that know him thru work/school. I would hope that if the situation/circumstance ever came up around me that not one of my friend could think me capable of such a henious crime. All im saying is that yes, he has SOME friends saying "hey, this isnt the raven I know" But im more concerned with the friends saying "Yes i blieve its him" I mean if your FRIENDS think your a murderer, who knows?
     
  21. Thinkoflaura

    Thinkoflaura Former Member

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    I think of Janet's murder almost daily. I remain planted firmly on the side of the fence that has " Raven is guilty" painted on it.
    As far as no arrest and trying to tie lack of arrest to DNA evidence, I wouldn't be surprised if the DNA evidence is still not all tested. At the time Janet was killed, the area newspapers were full of fresh, unsolved homicides.
    We also found a news article at the time stating that the NC Forensics lab was very understaffed and was in need of more personnel and more financing.
    Adding the high caseload in the past year to the apparently inadequate state testing facility, I'm not too surprised that we haven't seen an arrest yet.

    Then we get into the very gray area of DNA evidence regarding the usual vs. unusual contaminents from members of a household.. If some of you are unaware of how that can totally side line and stop a case in its tracks, think OJ and Nicole, or please read some of the Ramsey case threads about fibers, etc. JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in the basement of her home by her father. The case was initially thought to be a kidnapping for ransom.

    Almost 10 years after the Ramsey murder, there are almost as many opinions as to what is normal vs. abnormal fiber and DNA evidence from family members found at the crimescene as there are WS posters and forensics experts. Posters are still debating the significance of A fiber, A hair, A drop of co-mingled unidentified male DNA in her panties. I think it's wonderful that some still have the diligence to perservere, but by this point, the debating spirit has turned to frustration and a sense of futility for most people.
    For example, in the Ramsey case, a suitcase in the basement where the child's body was found contained a Dr. Seuss book and a comforter with semen from JonBenet's older half- brother, John Andrew, who was around 19 or 20 at the time of the murder. Is John Andrew a suspect? No.
    Because his alibi that he was in Atlanta is *substantiated* by evidence of poor quality bank video footage of a young man resembling John Andrew and wearing a baseball cap using his ATM card in Atlanta in the middle of the night, making it impossible for him to be in Boulder CO, at the murder scene, apparently.
    Another blanket found on or near the body contained a pubic hair identified in the media as belonging to the victim's older half- sister, Melinda, age around 23 at the time of the crime. Melinda has never been considered a suspect. The presence of the pubic hair on the blanket along with the contents of the suitcase and the victim's other sibling, Burke's prized swiss army knife in the basement when his parents have said he was careless with the knief and it had been confiscated for that period of time has caused confusion. It has led some to wonder if the crimescene was staged by someone trying to divert attention away from the perp and to all the other children of John Ramsey. Or was it normal household contamination? I don't know, although like most people, I have a theory which uses the KISS principle.
    IMO, short of a confession, the crimescene is too contaminated and the evidence containing what should be valuable DNA ( her fingernail clippings and DNA samples from her panties) was probably contaminated through shoddy collection and handling practices. As far as I know, contaminated DNA evidence cannot be uncontanimated, especially when dealing with such tiny fragments.

    We do not know what has been tested and excluded in the Abaroa case, to the best of my knowledge. I hope very much that the evidence collecting teams had much more experience than the ones in Boulder CO. and that someone in LE assigned to Janet's case is active in asking the NC lab for results.
    I also hope there is pressure from someone representing her personally, like her family or a congressman in her district, which we probably wouldn't know about.
    Nothing about this very interesting case has been deemed newsworthy, probably because of the national attention to the runaway bride when Janet's murder was positioned to be a hot news topic.
     

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