George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Sillybilly, Apr 1, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,812
    Likes Received:
    165,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It shouldn't matter if prior felons often behave in an agitated manner, claiming all sorts of ailments. Any suspect that complains of an injury during an arrest has a right to medical attention.

    The procedure is to call for an ambulance when this happens. They did call, but all they reported was an "injury to the mouth." They never mentioned anything about his breathing problems or the fact that he had recently had covid. Not being able to breathe is more serious than an injury to the mouth because it is life threatening. If they had given paramedics accurate information, they may have been better prepared. Meanwhile there is no reason they could not have started CPR before the ambulance got there. Imo
     


  2. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,142
    Likes Received:
    31,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think if/when he is convicted, it will be an appeal issue. Not sequestering the jury. The judge had no way of knowing something would happen this week, but he did have the chance to sequester them on Monday and denied that request.

    I don't know if you could get 12 people to acquit. I would be SHOCKED if they did! Just from reading here... reading elsewhere.... I think it may be really hard to get 12 to agree on 1 charge though.
     
    jennieohhh, Niner, misgrn and 14 others like this.
  3. In vino veritas

    In vino veritas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2,757
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Oh! I fully agree with you. Medical attention should have been rendered as soon as GF stopped resisting. I was merely offering an explanation as to why they kept trying to get him into the vehicle and ignored his numerous complaints at the time.

    And I do believe the call to upgrade the medical emergency was made shortly after the first call for the mouth injury.
     
    misgrn, CrimeAway, Wild Rose and 2 others like this.
  4. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,853
    Likes Received:
    100,861
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, there is no way the folks on the jury are NOT going to be aware of the recent shooting at Brooklyn Park. That, in and of itself, is part of the problem.
     
    misgrn, bluebird69, CrimeAway and 6 others like this.
  5. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,327
    Likes Received:
    125,370
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I find this part of Chauvin's former plea offer interesting. It seems that if he was allowed to serve time in federal prison, he was in danger of being up on federal civil rights charges for his admitted crime.


    The deal was contingent on the federal government’s approval because Mr. Chauvin, who had asked to serve his time in a federal prison, wanted assurance he would not face federal civil rights charges.
    Why William Barr Rejected a Plea Deal in the George Floyd Killing


     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  6. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,142
    Likes Received:
    31,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I hope I'm not going to get crucified for this question... but I'm genuinely curious and am looking to understand more...

    When GF said he couldn't breath before he was on the ground, and before he was even in the car....
    Do you believe he actually couldn't breath? felt like he couldn't breath? And why do you think that was?
     
  7. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,327
    Likes Received:
    125,370
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think several people here have said that George was exhibiting signs of anxiety ... the same as those posters have felt themselves. A feeling of not being able to breathe being a part of that anxiety.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  8. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,812
    Likes Received:
    165,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, they are not on trial for murder, they are charged with aiding and abetting. So what they thought may not be important in this case but will be a factor in their trial. But yes, they too should have considered trying other methods, such as de-escalation, rather than trying to shove him into the police car.
     
  9. RANCH

    RANCH United we stand, divided we fall.

    Messages:
    15,252
    Likes Received:
    24,597
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have no reason to believe that he couldn't breathe at that point. All of the testimony in this trial said that GF couldn't breathe because Chauvin had his knee on his neck while in the prone position. JMO
     
  10. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    6,197
    Likes Received:
    19,711
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I believe he could physically breathe. Did he feel like, because of anxiety or drugs or something else, he couldn’t? Maybe. Was he high and being obnoxious? Maybe. I’ve experienced people in every state, acting the exact same way. It should be handled on a case by case basis though. This is why it would have been hard for me to distinguish when he actually couldn’t breathe. Based on his words alone. It’s tough.
     
  11. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,142
    Likes Received:
    31,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you for answering :) I don't want anyone to be challenged on their answer, I just want to know what everyone thinks/believes based on what we know now.
     
    misgrn, bluebird69, Fidobell and 4 others like this.
  12. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,327
    Likes Received:
    125,370
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would say it was positive to the officers that George couldn't breathe by this point.


    “You got one?” Mr. Lane asked. “I can’t find one,” Mr. Kueng said. “Huh?” Mr. Chauvin replied. Mr. Kueng tried again, and again said he could not find a pulse.

    More than two minutes then went by, according to timestamps on the transcript of Mr. Kueng’s body camera footage. Still, Mr. Chauvin kept his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck, videos show.
    New Transcripts Detail Last Moments for George Floyd
     
    wasnt_me, jjs, sorrell skye and 15 others like this.
  13. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,812
    Likes Received:
    165,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, I think it's important to point out that a police officer cannot tell the difference between truly not being able to breathe and a person who is experiencing anxiety. That's why it is so important to seek immediate medical attention whenever a person says they can't breathe. A nurse, firefighter or police officer should never "assume" the person is faking. Like Dr. Tobin said, a person can be talking one minute but 10 seconds later they could be dead. Imo
     
    wasnt_me, jjs, sorrell skye and 12 others like this.
  14. ilovewings

    ilovewings Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,293
    Likes Received:
    39,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I worry about stealth jurors (one way or the other)
     
    wasnt_me, kimpage, Boodles and 4 others like this.
  15. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    6,197
    Likes Received:
    19,711
    Trophy Points:
    113
    By what point? He stopped moving? That’d be an indication to me. Did he hear Lane? I don’t know. During those 2 minutes what else was going on? A lot. Why didn’t he roll him over? I don’t know. They’re waiting on the ambulance, why not do something? Why didn’t any of them do anything? I don’t know.

    I’m doubtful that it was positive to DC he couldn’t breathe.
     
    bluebird69, missy1974 and Tippy Lynn like this.
  16. Mony Mony

    Mony Mony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    5,880
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is one of the reasons I would say “not guilty”. If he really could not breathe at that time, I have a hard time believing it was due to anxiety. It would be interesting to compare his OD symptoms from a few months prior to this episode. His girlfriend said they felt like they were going to die.

    all moo.
     
  17. Mony Mony

    Mony Mony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    5,880
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So I wonder if COVID played any role in NOT starting CPR. I doubt it. But this happened kinda early in the pandemic. I know I prolly would not have been to eager to get up close and personal with a stranger, especially knowing medics were on the way.
     
  18. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    24,327
    Likes Received:
    125,370
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My point being that if the officers could not find a pulse, George wasn't breathing.
    Lane did try to do something, he reminded Chauvin twice to roll George onto his side. And he released his hold on George.
    Kueng did do something. He got off George.

    Chauvin was essentially sitting there on George's neck all by himself, until the EMTs motioned that he needed to get off.

    Funny (not funny) that everyone else knew that Chauvin should get off George's neck, except Chauvin. imo

    This is about reasonable doubt, not no doubt at all.
    It is not reasonable to doubt that Chauvin should have not stayed on George's neck. A reasonable person would not have done that. And the others got off George, released him. imo
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
    Wowno17, JaneEyre, wasnt_me and 19 others like this.
  19. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    6,197
    Likes Received:
    19,711
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree, he should have done more.
     
    misgrn, bluebird69, CrimeAway and 6 others like this.
  20. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,812
    Likes Received:
    165,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think there is anybody that would consider Floyd's behavior as being "high and obnoxious." He immediately asked officer Lane to please not shoot him, he thanked him when he was allowed to sit down, he asked him not to leave him alone, told him he was scared, asked him if he would talk to him, and not once appeared to be aggressive. He thanked them again when they pulled him out of the car and forced him into the prone position.

    I don't think it really matters when they determined he "actually couldn't breathe." He had already said so 17 times before being restrained, and the bystanders alerted the officers over and over again, in addition to Floyd's cries for help, while Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck for more than nine minutes.
     
    JaneEyre, wasnt_me, vinayd and 14 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice