George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Sillybilly, Apr 1, 2021.

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  1. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I’m not saying that at all. Every SINGLE situation would have been different for him. I’m sure he was trained more than most. Meh. That means nothing. His experience likely holds more weight than that. And yes, his attention should have been at the task at hand. But in this case, he had several tasks in my opinion. His attention was divided, no doubt.
     


  2. Tom_Servo

    Tom_Servo Well-Known Member

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    Resisting arrest is why he ended up being detained like he was.
     
  3. ACE422

    ACE422 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve seen patients with Covid say “I can’t breathe” when they were breathing. I’ve seen people with anxiety/claustrophobia say “I can’t breathe” when they were breathing. People experiencing an asthma attack, allergic reaction, heart problems. The fact that they were breathing at that time they made the statements did not mean they were not in need of medical attention for their reported difficulty breathing. I certainly did not restrain those individuals in a manner that would further restrict their ability to breathe. MOO
     
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  4. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Edited to removed quoted post.
    I agree. Had he not acted in the manner he did, he likely wouldn’t have been arrested. HE escalated the situation. IMO
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  5. Tom_Servo

    Tom_Servo Well-Known Member

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    It's clear to me and I don't understand the analogies comparing GF's situation with proximate professionals called upon in an emergency. This situation has little resemblance to that.
     
  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Who else besides the firefighter and Williams were pleading with them? The old man? The rest were kids. I didn't hear anybody screaming. Their voices were getting higher and louder as they became more urgent because they could see Floyd was dying. I only heard two people telling the officers "He's not breathing, he's not responsive, he's not moving." That's not shouting orders to me. The only thing they told them to do was to check his pulse. Which Chauvin refused to do. The only reason Williams started calling him a bum is because he didn't respond or move the whole time.

    In the video from across the street it didn't seem busy at all. I didn't see many cars go by while they were there.
     
  7. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I guess this is a testament to the point I’m getting at. I heard traffic and I heard yelling. I heard several people telling me something.

    Kids or adults. I’ve seen both be extremely violent. For seemingly no reason.

    Williams would have been dismissed, IMO, because he’d been barking orders for awhile.
     
  8. ACE422

    ACE422 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve seen patients with Covid say “I can’t breathe” when they were breathing. I’ve seen people with anxiety/claustrophobia say “I can’t breathe” when they were breathing. People experiencing an asthma attack, allergic reaction, heart problems. The fact that they were breathing at that time they made the statements did not mean they were not in need of medical attention for their reported difficulty breathing. I certainly did not restrain those individuals in a manner that would further restrict their ability to breathe. MOO
    We train to only perform chest compressions if someone if positive or symptomatic. Or if someone just doesn’t feel comfortable doing mouth to mouth or has no breathing barrier available. Doing something is better than doing nothing. There is oxygen in the blood, so compressions would at least circulate oxygen to organs via the blood. MOO
     
  9. Wild Rose

    Wild Rose Well-Known Member

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    DC had plenty of opportunity to address each thing going on around him. Most people involved in jobs rendering aid love the multitasking, the busy side of life, jumping in the middle of excitement because it is never a boring job!
     
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  10. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is arguing that what they were saying was unreasonable or unwarranted, but that it was just another added distraction/source of a perceived threat.

    One note about the off duty FF... IIRC her first interaction with them was when she came up behind them, she put them on edge immediately. IMO

    MsBetsy... I didn't think there was much traffic either until we saw Chang's body cam the other day. I don't think we watched the whole video from across the street? But the side street where Chang was, there was traffic and at times really loud vehicles. I was annoyed cuz I couldn't hear what was being said at times. JMO
     
  11. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he wouldn't be going through withdrawal if he was buzzed. There is no evidence he had taken a lethal dose of fentanyl, though. In fact the toxicologist testified that the amount of norfentanyl in his blood was not consistent with an overdose.
     
  12. CrimeAway

    CrimeAway Well-Known Member

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    @mom2chloe for some reason the quote feature isn't working for me

    No, I wasn't referring to Ms. Ross.

    She was a very compelling witness, and her love of Mr Floyd was very evident, IMO. I wish her the very best, and I hope that she is getting the support that she needs and deserves.

    Watching the "intervention" tv series, showed me how so often addiction develops out of trauma and huge difficulties in a person's life. It is a sad reflection, IMO, that there isn't enough help for those who are struggling, and the criminal justice system has become the default mental health provider. MOO.

    I can see how easy it could be to fall into the grip of addiction, especially without a strong support system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  13. Wild Rose

    Wild Rose Well-Known Member

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    Also the totally weird thing about this case that bothers me is the brotherhood aspect is missing and I mean brotherhood in every good sense of the word. I would see a wild argument at a meeting, an alarm would go off, and never once were they anything but utterly respectful to each other on the call.
     
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  14. Leve

    Leve Well-Known Member

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    And, IMO, the reason for detaining him wasn't because of the fake $20 but because he was behind the wheel and obviously under the influence of something.

    GF furthered escalated it by refusing to or being unable to (due to panic or drugs) cooperate.
     
  15. BayouBelle_LA

    BayouBelle_LA Well-Known Member

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    Every use of force expert for the state, agreed with Nelson that subjects sometimes fake injury or illness to evade arrest. They say things like I can’t breathe, I’m having a heart attack, etc. This leads me to believe that it happens quite often.

    As they are attempting to put GF in the car he says “I don’t want to go back”. I presume that means he doesn’t want to go back to jail. That is why he was resisting. IMO. So when he says “I can’t breathe” - do the officers make an assumption that he’s trying to avoid being arrested. Just some thoughts, speculation and my opinion.
     
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  16. magnolia

    magnolia War Eagle

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    I can say with certainty that police officers in general are constantly on alert for people that might pose a threat.
     
  17. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know no one is saying they were being unreasonable, but I did not see the crowd as a threat or a distraction. I thought it was obvious that they were just concerned. If the officers had just put Floyd in the recovery position five minutes earlier, do you think they would have started getting louder or become so upset?

    And yes, that was the video I was referring to. I thought it seemed very quiet and non eventful for a city street. But then again I've never been to Minneapolis.
     
  18. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

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    The problem I see with the crowd is that it could have turned into a threat within a matter of seconds.
     
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  19. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe the crowd was definitely a distraction and potentially a threat. Especially as time went on.

    If they’d have put him into the recovery position sooner, we might not be having this conversation. That would mean he would have stopped resisting though.
     
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  20. BoyThatsWeird

    BoyThatsWeird Well-Known Member

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    On a "lighter" hypothetical. You're wrongfully charged with murder. Which of the attorneys in this case would you hire to be your defense? I know defense/presecutors are trained differently, but who has given you the impression that they're the best lawyer in this court room? For me, I'd hire Schleicher with Nelson being a close second. I hope this doesn't violate WS rules...was just something I kept thinking as I've watched the entire trial.
     
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