George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

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CrimeAway

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Some police departments offer "Citizen Police Academies," or opportunities for members of the public to go on "ride alongs." Once the pandemic is over or under control, I would encourage everyone to look into doing this. It truly is eye opening.
All MOO
 

dixiegirl1035

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RSBM

There is no excuse for not rendering aid to GF and for continuing to restrain him after he lost consciousness and especially after they found no pulse.

Yes, I believe that the threads and all posting here have 100% to this position. If, in fact, he was determined to have lost consciousness, no pulse, stopped breathing,.... that something should have been done.

I've not seen a post that said differently.

MOO
 

magnolia

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The question was posed about whether they allow people who have professional knowledge, not just regular people, to help in a medical situation. If they do not allow people with professional knowledge to come up, state their profession, and then help, Nelson should have made that clear on her cross-examination when she testified that she, a FF, was not allowed to help.

I don't know how "common knowledge" it is that they don't allow professionals to help. There's a professional replying with us right now that says she's never been stopped from helping when police are there but EMS isn't.

Here's what she said:



IMO, the testimony should be considered along with the rest of the bystander testimony. The gist for me is that lay people and experienced people saw that GF was in distress, but DC continued maximal restraint despite advice from laypeople, regular people, and his own fellow officer TL.
I feel confident that some of the Jurors will understand why the officers kept a hostile bystander with no credentials a safe distance from Mr. Floyd. As stated, I don't expect the deal with the firefighter to be a big factor with the Jurors. IMO
 

tara83

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I feel confident that some of the Jurors will understand why the officers kept a hostile bystander with no credentials a safe distance from Mr. Floyd. As stated, I don't expect the deal with the firefighter to be a big factor with the Jurors. IMO
I imagine the man kneeling on another man's neck for over nine minutes will be the concern of the jurors.Not even offering him any help.
 

kittythehare

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Some police departments offer "Citizen Police Academies," or opportunities for members of the public to go on "ride alongs." Once the pandemic is over or under control, I would encourage everyone to look into doing this. It truly is eye opening.
All MOO
I watched one on U tube last night for MN.. I really enjoyed it, felt like being in the vehicle with them..but they made it interesting ad discussed serious past crimes. They were good humored and witty.
When I visited USA, to hitch around, in the 70's I met lots of them and they were so kind and so lovely I'll never forget them. We were so naive.. 'is that really a real gun?' Can I hold it? No but it's a real gun okay.
We were doing all kinds of crazy thinking it was normal, it was for Ireland, not the US. They were an awful lot more amenable than the bunch we inherited... We had no idea that what we were doing was completely outrageous, we were met with tolerance humor and great great patience. Attitudes to innocence were a helluva lot healthier there than here and probably still are.
 

magnolia

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Well went back and found this very complete video of 2019...I can't make out much what he said and did not hear "claustrophobic" but what struck me was the takedown and tactics of the officers...so different...they spoke to him like a human being...got the job done...cuffed...standing and honestly he was about the same as May 25th. It shows how it could have and should have gone down
The 2019 incident went smoothly because Mr. Floyd didn't resist. He didn't fight getting in the back seat of the squad car. IMO

As stated, the officers were very loud and vocal. They yelled at him to put his hands on the dash. They threatened to use a taser if he didn't cooperate and show his hands. I don't know how many times Mr. Floyd said, "man why you do me this way".

I'm curious why Mr. Floyd stopped mumbling when they arrived at the police station.
 

jjs

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One thing that still gets me. It has zero bearing on the trial or anything. But all of this happened and George was never even Mirandaized. They told him close to the beginning (when it was just TL and AJK) that he was under arrest, but not once was George read his rights.

I honestly believe that had DC and TT just gone on with their day instead of responding to a call for backup that had been called off, that George would still be alive. It seemed (IMO) that he was kind of starting to develop a rapport with one of the rookies, even though he was struggling, but he was talking to them and I think that eventually they would have got him deescalated and in the car.

Who knows, maybe this would have been the time that George finally got clean. Maybe he would have gotten things straightened out with his truck driving job. Maybe he would have developed closer relationships with his older kids and brought Gianna and her mom up closer to Minny so he could see her more often. Unfortunately, we'll never know, because DC chose to sit on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. All IMO, of course.
 

RANCH

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The police didn’t read me my Miranda rights—does that mean I wasn’t under arrest?

Police officers don’t have to provide the Miranda warning to people they arrest. They’re free to arrest you, put you in the back of a patrol car, and take you to the station for booking without once mentioning your rights.
The Miranda rights are relevant only when a suspect is:


 

jjs

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The police didn’t read me my Miranda rights—does that mean I wasn’t under arrest?

Police officers don’t have to provide the Miranda warning to people they arrest. They’re free to arrest you, put you in the back of a patrol car, and take you to the station for booking without once mentioning your rights.
The Miranda rights are relevant only when a suspect is:


Thanks for this, I'm in Canada so I don't know everything about procedure in the US.
 

missy1974

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Ha! I was just thinking about this. I think he is 80% guilty but that means I have reasonable doubt. So I would have to say not guilty.

Can I ask where the doubt is? is it the cause of death? the use of force being reasonable? both? I'm just curious and you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

I'm not sure where I would fall within all the charges, was hoping we would get jury instructions to see if I could work through them and see.

I'm leaning towards manslaughter at the moment, but I am not sure that the charges 'allow' it for my thinking at the moment.
 

jjs

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Can I ask where the doubt is? is it the cause of death? the use of force being reasonable? both? I'm just curious and you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

I think the doubt comes in that the defense threw a lot of stuff about drugs and his heart, as I'm trying to look at it devil's advocate. And I think it really comes down to what is a "reasonable" doubt and what is a "reasonable" officer. Just things I would look at if I were on the jury.

I'm pretty sure he will be convicted of manslaughter and *maybe* third degree. While I would love to see him convicted of second, it's really going to depend on the jury instructions, because as they are now, they are quite confusing.
 

magnolia

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Can I ask where the doubt is? is it the cause of death? the use of force being reasonable? both? I'm just curious and you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

I'm not sure where I would fall within all the charges, was hoping we would get jury instructions to see if I could work through them and see.

I'm leaning towards manslaughter at the moment, but I am not sure that the charges 'allow' it for my thinking at the moment.

I have reasonable doubt as to the cause of death.
 

Leve

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I'm curious and have heard many different opinions here of the level of guilt some think Chauvin has but do some here think he is not guilty of any of the charges?

I don't believe he intended to cause any permanent harm to GF but I do think GF wouldn't have died if not for Chauvin's actions and inaction as far as not giving aid. Whatever actually caused GF death (be it heart attack, overdose, neck compression or a combination) IMO if not for Chauvin he probably would have lived.

So I have no clue what I would find hime guilty of.
 
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