George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

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missy1974

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Unfortunately people die all the time. How about all the people that die under a doctors’s care. Should they be held criminally liable and face jail time? (I am not arguing with you, just frustrated). Some docs get their licensed removed, but Lane is facing criminal charges. Doesn’t seem right to me.

I do think DC should have his “police license” removed, I just question the criminal responsibility.

hmmm that's an interesting comparison, never really thought of it that way.
 

missy1974

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Okay... I have been googling and I can't find it ... so I'm going to ask all you smart people here...

If CPR and ventilation can increase oxygen levels... does it also decrease the carbon DIOXIDE levels if they are too high?

I highlighted the carbon dioxide, I don't want anyone to get confused with carbon monoxide :confused:
 

SouthAussie

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Unfortunately people die all the time. How about all the people that die under a doctors’s care. Should they be held criminally liable and face jail time? (I am not arguing with you, just frustrated). Some docs get their licensed removed, but Lane is facing criminal charges. Doesn’t seem right to me.

I do think DC should have his “police license” removed, I just question the criminal responsibility.

Maybe the difference is that George's death was filmed and it is evident that criminal behaviour was involved.
Police who did not carry out their duty of care. Police who negligently disregarded procedure. And police who are paid by the taxpayers.

I personally think that things will go okay for Lane, eventually.
 

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Unfortunately people die all the time. How about all the people that die under a doctors’s care. Should they be held criminally liable and face jail time? (I am not arguing with you, just frustrated). Some docs get their licensed removed, but Lane is facing criminal charges. Doesn’t seem right to me.

I do think DC should have his “police license” removed, I just question the criminal responsibility.

Interesting point of view.

A Dr. who accidentally gives medication A instead of medication B, leading to a patient's death, could possibly loose a job, face civil liability, and/or to loose a license to practice. The Dr. could be bankrupted, but probably not criminally charged.

A Dr. who holds a knee on the patient's neck until after the patient is dead is likely to loose a job, loose a license, face civil liability, and face criminal charges.

An accident is an accident. Murder is murder.

The world just might be a better place if police, like Dr.'s, had to carry their own malpractice insurance. 1) statistics show that police are less likely to use excessive force in municipalities where there are consequences for the behavior. 2) I would hazard a guess that municipalities could possibly save $$$, even if they pay officers more to offset average malpractice insurance, to stop paying out for excessive force suits.
 

Mony Mony

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Interesting point of view.

A Dr. who accidentally gives medication A instead of medication B, leading to a patient's death, could possibly loose a job, face civil liability, and/or to loose a license to practice. The Dr. could be bankrupted, but probably not criminally charged.

A Dr. who holds a knee on the patient's neck until after the patient is dead is likely to loose a job, loose a license, face civil liability, and face criminal charges.

An accident is an accident. Murder is murder.

The world just might be a better place if police, like Dr.'s, had to carry their own malpractice insurance. 1) statistics show that police are less likely to use excessive force in municipalities where there are consequences for the behavior. 2) I would hazard a guess that municipalities could possibly save $$$, even if they pay officers more to offset average malpractice insurance, to stop paying out for excessive force suits.

I think a better analogy may be Doctor decides patient does not need chemo, would rather watch/monitor the tumor growth. Tumor metastasizes and patient dies much sooner than expected.

Or doctor thinks patient has a simple cold but he actually has a pulmonary embolism.

No doctor (that I know of) puts his knee on a patient’s neck. And no police officer (that I know of) can diagnose and treat.
 

RANCH

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Okay... I have been googling and I can't find it ... so I'm going to ask all you smart people here...

If CPR and ventilation can increase oxygen levels... does it also decrease the carbon DIOXIDE levels if they are too high?

I highlighted the carbon dioxide, I don't want anyone to get confused with carbon monoxide :confused:
What I also would like to know about CPR and ventilation is if the patients O2 level was normal at the start of treatment how would someone know that fact if CPR raises low O2 levels to normal?

If the blood oxygen levels are already normal, CPR wouldn't change that reading much right?. Or am I missing something? JMO
 

Mony Mony

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Interesting point of view.

A Dr. who accidentally gives medication A instead of medication B, leading to a patient's death, could possibly loose a job, face civil liability, and/or to loose a license to practice. The Dr. could be bankrupted, but probably not criminally charged.

A Dr. who holds a knee on the patient's neck until after the patient is dead is likely to loose a job, loose a license, face civil liability, and face criminal charges.

An accident is an accident. Murder is murder.

The world just might be a better place if police, like Dr.'s, had to carry their own malpractice insurance. 1) statistics show that police are less likely to use excessive force in municipalities where there are consequences for the behavior. 2) I would hazard a guess that municipalities could possibly save $$$, even if they pay officers more to offset average malpractice insurance, to stop paying out for excessive force suits.

Your first example reminds me of the Kimberly Potts shooting, but many people are screaming for a criminal conviction.
 

missy1974

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What I also would like to know about CPR and ventilation is if the patients O2 level was normal at the start of treatment how would someone know that fact if CPR raises low O2 levels to normal?

If the blood oxygen levels are already normal, CPR wouldn't change that reading much right?. Or am I missing something? JMO

They actually have studies out there that show someone at 0% Oxygen at the start of CPR.. and what cpr can do... I haven't found any that got it back to 95% yet, but I wasn't really looking for it either.

Because of his level of carbon dioxide at the time too..... I'm just trying to understand more. Was hoping that someone here in the medical field might know ;)
 

RANCH

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They actually have studies out there that show someone at 0% Oxygen at the start of CPR.. and what cpr can do... I haven't found any that got it back to 95% yet, but I wasn't really looking for it either.

Because of his level of carbon dioxide at the time too..... I'm just trying to understand more. Was hoping that someone here in the medical field might know ;)
And remember GF's blood oxygen level was 98%.
"It's simply wrong," Tobin replied. He said Floyd's measured 98% oxygen saturation in his blood, which would be considered normal.

Testimony Ends Without Derek Chauvin Taking The Stand In His Trial
 

MsBetsy

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I had the time this afternoon to sit and watch Dr. Tobin again (on 2x speed lol)

For those of us that were wondering if CPR and what that does came up in the trial... it was NOT in his testimony.

He is also normally a paid witness at $500/hr, but has only ever testified in civil cases, never a criminal case. Just mentioning because earlier I had said he had never been a witness before... I was wrong, he has never been a witness in a criminal trial.

ETA: correct spelling error.. and add... I actually have a few more questions now after listening to Dr. Tobin's testimony... going to listen to the cardiologist again and see if they were answered.
Both the paramedic and the ER doctor testified that CPR was done on Floyd, and the amount of time. It was almost continuous from the time Floyd was in the ambulance and then for another 15 minutes while he was in the hospital.

At least one of the experts explained that brain damage can begin within four minutes of the brain not recieving oxygen, which is why it's so important to begin doing CPR Immediately.

The prosecution got Dr. Fowler to admit that CPR should have been started as soon as Floyd stopped breathing at around 8:25 pm.
 

MsBetsy

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Unfortunately people die all the time. How about all the people that die under a doctors’s care. Should they be held criminally liable and face jail time? (I am not arguing with you, just frustrated). Some docs get their licensed removed, but Lane is facing criminal charges. Doesn’t seem right to me.

I do think DC should have his “police license” removed, I just question the criminal responsibility.
I think they are all being held liable because each officer had a duty of care. Floyd died while he was in their custody, due to their actions.
 

MsBetsy

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I think a better analogy may be Doctor decides patient does not need chemo, would rather watch/monitor the tumor growth. Tumor metastasizes and patient dies much sooner than expected.

Or doctor thinks patient has a simple cold but he actually has a pulmonary embolism.

No doctor (that I know of) puts his knee on a patient’s neck. And no police officer (that I know of) can diagnose and treat.
In those examples the doctor did not do anything to intentionally harm the patient.
 

MsBetsy

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Right. Dr. Fowler claimed that in seven minutes, his carboxyhemoglobin "could" have increased by 10-18 %. This would have left the jury thinking carbon monoxide poisoning was a possibility.

But Dr. Tobin clarified that was not what occurred, since his oxygen level was 98%, so it was impossible for the carbon monoxide to be more than 2%, (which is normal.) It would have been much higher if it had increased by 10-18%.

Imo
 
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Cool Cats

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Pig's head left at former home of Chauvin defense witness

Barry Brodd, a former police officer who testified as an expert use-of-force witness in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, was apparently targeted for vandalism early Saturday, but the suspects got the wrong house, say cops in Santa Rosa, California.

Officers think Brodd was the target based on his recent testimony in support of Chauvin’s defense. Brodd said Tuesday that he found the defendant followed training, and was objectively reasonable.

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Chauvin-previous-home-03.jpg

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As for the vandalism incident, cops say the suspects did not stop at the residence. They soon splattered a large hand statue in front of the Santa Rosa Plaza mall with what is suspected of being animal blood, officers said

http://nixle.us/CNWGN - FULL NOTIFICATION - SANTA ROSA POLICE DEPARTMENT

Authorities say he no longer lives there, and has not for years. He does not even live in California anymore. Instead, another resident found their home smeared with what seemed to be animal blood. There was a pig’s head near the front porch.
 

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musicaljoke

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Pig's head left at former home of Chauvin defense witness

Barry Brodd, a former police officer who testified as an expert use-of-force witness in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, was apparently targeted for vandalism early Saturday, but the suspects got the wrong house, say cops in Santa Rosa, California.

Officers think Brodd was the target based on his recent testimony in support of Chauvin’s defense. Brodd said Tuesday that he found the defendant followed training, and was objectively reasonable.

View attachment 293337
Chauvin-previous-home-03.jpg

BB1fNa7k.img

As for the vandalism incident, cops say the suspects did not stop at the residence. They soon splattered a large hand statue in front of the Santa Rosa Plaza mall with what is suspected of being animal blood, officers said

http://nixle.us/CNWGN - FULL NOTIFICATION - SANTA ROSA POLICE DEPARTMENT

Authorities say he no longer lives there, and has not for years. He does not even live in California anymore. Instead, another resident found their home smeared with what seemed to be animal blood. There was a pig’s head near the front porch.

It shouldn't be hard to find the person who did this, a person with a very deranged mind.
 
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