George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

[Cool Cats]

Defense expert in Derek Chauvin trial faces Maryland lawsuit
Sat, April 17, 2021

The former chief medical examiner for Maryland who testified on behalf of the officer accused of killing George Floyd is a defendant in a federal lawsuit over the death of a man who died under circumstances similar to Floyd.

Dr. David Fowler was chief medical examiner in Maryland for 17 years before retiring in 2019.

He served as a key defense witness for Officer Derek Chauvin. Fowler testified that he would have ruled Floyd's cause of death as “undetermined” rather than homicide.

He also testified that Floyd's heart disease contributed to his death, contradicting prosecution experts who cited asphyxiation as a result of Chauvin's knee being pressed into Floyd's neck for more than nine minutes.

The case bears similarities to that of 19-year-old Anton Black, who died in 2018 while in police custody on Maryland's Eastern Shore. A federal lawsuit filed in Baltimore alleges that officers with the Greensboro police department and nearby agencies kept their weight on Black for several minutes even after he was prone and handcuffed.

The lawsuit alleges that the officers' actions caused Black to die of asphyxiation. It alleges that Fowler and the medical examiner who conducted Black's autopsy intentionally covered up for police by ignoring evidence of asphyxiation and playing up other factors that supported the police narrative.

The Maryland Attorney General's Office is representing Fowler and filed a motion earlier this month seeking to have the lawsuit against him dismissed. A hearing has not yet been scheduled.

 

[SA55]

Defense expert in Derek Chauvin trial faces Maryland lawsuit
Sat, April 17, 2021

The former chief medical examiner for Maryland who testified on behalf of the officer accused of killing George Floyd is a defendant in a federal lawsuit over the death of a man who died under circumstances similar to Floyd.

Dr. David Fowler was chief medical examiner in Maryland for 17 years before retiring in 2019.

He served as a key defense witness for Officer Derek Chauvin. Fowler testified that he would have ruled Floyd's cause of death as “undetermined” rather than homicide.

He also testified that Floyd's heart disease contributed to his death, contradicting prosecution experts who cited asphyxiation as a result of Chauvin's knee being pressed into Floyd's neck for more than nine minutes.

The case bears similarities to that of 19-year-old Anton Black, who died in 2018 while in police custody on Maryland's Eastern Shore. A federal lawsuit filed in Baltimore alleges that officers with the Greensboro police department and nearby agencies kept their weight on Black for several minutes even after he was prone and handcuffed.

The lawsuit alleges that the officers' actions caused Black to die of asphyxiation. It alleges that Fowler and the medical examiner who conducted Black's autopsy intentionally covered up for police by ignoring evidence of asphyxiation and playing up other factors that supported the police narrative.

The Maryland Attorney General's Office is representing Fowler and filed a motion earlier this month seeking to have the lawsuit against him dismissed. A hearing has not yet been scheduled.

Interesting

 

[Cool Cats]

The police didn’t read me my Miranda rights—does that mean I wasn’t under arrest?

Police officers don’t have to provide the Miranda warning to people they arrest. They’re free to arrest you, put you in the back of a patrol car, and take you to the station for booking without once mentioning your rights.
The Miranda rights are relevant only when a suspect is:

• in custody, and
• subject to interrogation.
  
  The police didn’t read me my Miranda rights—does that mean I wasn’t under arrest?

You are considered in police custody when they handcuff you and put you in a squad car.

Technically they can put off the Miranda warning until just before they question you and anything you say before the Miranda cannot be used against you.

But if they question you at all without the Miranda everything you say will be thrown out by the judge.

 

[RANCH]

You are considered in police custody when they handcuff you and put you in a squad car.

Technically they can put off the Miranda warning until just before they question you and anything you say before the Miranda cannot be used against you.

But if they question you at all without the Miranda everything you say will be thrown out by the judge.

Yes. That's what my link explains.

 

[mickey2942]

You are considered in police custody when they handcuff you and put you in a squad car.

Technically they can put off the Miranda warning until just before they question you and anything you say before the Miranda cannot be used against you.

But if they question you at all without the Miranda everything you say will be thrown out by the judge.

Where people get into trouble, is when they are NOT arrested, and are just having a "friendly" chat with LEO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Where people get into trouble, is when they are NOT arrested, and are just having a "friendly" chat with LEO.

Hmmm.....

Interesting..... So if not under arrest everything you say can be held against you.

Good point. Miranda is only for those under arrest...

A bit complicated.

 

[Mony Mony]

Where people get into trouble, is when they are NOT arrested, and are just having a "friendly" chat with LEO.

True. I learned that the hard way. I won’t say anymore but the event still upsets me.

 

[Gibbo214]

Defense expert in Derek Chauvin trial faces Maryland lawsuit
Sat, April 17, 2021

The former chief medical examiner for Maryland who testified on behalf of the officer accused of killing George Floyd is a defendant in a federal lawsuit over the death of a man who died under circumstances similar to Floyd.

Dr. David Fowler was chief medical examiner in Maryland for 17 years before retiring in 2019.

He served as a key defense witness for Officer Derek Chauvin. Fowler testified that he would have ruled Floyd's cause of death as “undetermined” rather than homicide.

He also testified that Floyd's heart disease contributed to his death, contradicting prosecution experts who cited asphyxiation as a result of Chauvin's knee being pressed into Floyd's neck for more than nine minutes.

The case bears similarities to that of 19-year-old Anton Black, who died in 2018 while in police custody on Maryland's Eastern Shore. A federal lawsuit filed in Baltimore alleges that officers with the Greensboro police department and nearby agencies kept their weight on Black for several minutes even after he was prone and handcuffed.

The lawsuit alleges that the officers' actions caused Black to die of asphyxiation. It alleges that Fowler and the medical examiner who conducted Black's autopsy intentionally covered up for police by ignoring evidence of asphyxiation and playing up other factors that supported the police narrative.

The Maryland Attorney General's Office is representing Fowler and filed a motion earlier this month seeking to have the lawsuit against him dismissed. A hearing has not yet been scheduled.

There are a few doctors who have become very wealthy from testifying that Shaken Baby syndrome does not exist. Testifying as a expert witness seems to be very lucrative.

 

[Cool Cats]

There are a few doctors who have become very wealthy from testifying that Shaken Baby syndrome does not exist. Testifying as a expert witness seems to be very lucrative.

If I was on the defense team I would point it out strongly that the expert is being paid and ask how much and say it matters etc....

 

[SouthAussie]

If I was on the defense team I would point it out strongly that the expert is being paid and ask how much and say it matters etc....

In this case, it was a defense witness who was being paid. I wonder if the prosecution mentioned it during the trial. Because somehow MSM found out Fowler was being paid for his testimony.

I kinda feel sorry for the jury, because they are not going to find out about the lawsuit against Dr Fowler until after the trial is over.


Fowler, who is being paid to testify ......
April 14, 2021 Derek Chauvin trial day 13 news

Dr. David Fowler, a former Maryland chief medical examiner, testified for more than five hours as a paid witness for the defense.
Key takeaways from Derek Chauvin's murder trial: Day 13

 

[jjs]

I'm pretty sure the prosecution did bring it up, because I seem to recall a conversation on here about how much he was being paid. This is just my recollection though.

It is indeed a shame that the jury won't know about the lawsuit. It seems like that would be pertinent information about how much credence to give his testimony, IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

There are a few doctors who have become very wealthy from testifying that Shaken Baby syndrome does not exist. Testifying as a expert witness seems to be very lucrative.

His testimony was so misleading. I wonder what the jury was thinking when he said something like, the arterioscerotic disease, the carbon monoxide, the paraganglioma, was "adding adrenaline to this whole mixture" that caused his death.

What about the panic and fear causing the adrenaline? He made it sound like Floyd was some subject in experimental research rather than an actual human being.

Every other expert witness said the mass was not a contributing factor and not one of them mentioned carbon monoxide being present in his blood. He seemed to avoid any mention of the neck and back restraints being a causal factor, even though Dr. Baker found that it was.

I found him to be very deceptive.

 

[bluebird69]

I'm pretty sure the prosecution did bring it up, because I seem to recall a conversation on here about how much he was being paid. This is just my recollection though.

It is indeed a shame that the jury won't know about the lawsuit. It seems like that would be pertinent information about how much credence to give his testimony, IMO.

It was actually Eric Nelson for the defense who asked Fowler if he was being paid. IIRC it was somewhere in the region of $300 per hour. Many of the expert witnesses for the prosecution were also being paid and were asked so by the prosecution. The only one there for free was Dr Tobin, although I have a feeling there may have been one other but don't quote me on that! It struck me as being standard practice to ask the question of an expert witness, and agree it is a nice little earner

 

[Niner]

I had hoped the prosecution would have had 9 minutes and 29 seconds
of silence in the courtroom so the jury would feel the impact of how long
Chauvin had his knee on the neck of Floyd--

Maybe in closing arguments he will....

 

[turaj]

I'm pretty sure the prosecution did bring it up, because I seem to recall a conversation on here about how much he was being paid. This is just my recollection though.

It is indeed a shame that the jury won't know about the lawsuit. It seems like that would be pertinent information about how much credence to give his testimony, IMO.

i seem to remember something about how much he was being paid...thinking what a good deal the state got given they don't have to pay him and much of what he said was good for the state...that might have been one of many witnesses that defense used...did not really like any of them...typical hired guns.

 

[turaj]

It was actually Eric Nelson for the defense who asked Fowler if he was being paid. IIRC it was somewhere in the region of $300 per hour. Many of the expert witnesses for the prosecution were also being paid and were asked so by the prosecution. The only one there for free was Dr Tobin, although I have a feeling there may have been one other but don't quote me on that! It struck me as being standard practice to ask the question of an expert witness, and agree it is a nice little earner

Free is often very misleading...usually there is a "contribution" made to an institution or group of the witnesses' choosing...something to contribute to their field of expertise. Maybe some ask absolutely nothing but not the norm.

 

[missy1974]

Yes the defense experts were paid, the forensic pathologist and the use of force guy.

The State had some paid experts...
Dr. Tobin was not paid, never been a witness before, so he is an expert, but not a 'typical' expert like we see normally
Dr. Thomas - former ME ... she is a paid expert but did not take payment for this case.
Cardiologist - first time testifying, didn't get paid but got compensated for his time for missed work, IIRC $1200 a day.
Use of force guy - he was paid.

They were ALL asked about payment, how much, etc., which is normal for any trial I have watched.

 

[missy1974]

Free is often very misleading...usually there is a "contribution" made to an institution or group of the witnesses' choosing...something to contribute to their field of expertise. Maybe some ask absolutely nothing but not the norm.

I liked Dr. Thomas.. BUT.. if I'm telling the truth, her not taking payment for this case gave me pause. Whether she was backing up her former coworker, doing it for the greater good, or whatever... it felt like she just wanted to interject herself into the case. That is JMO and I don't know what her reasons were for not taking payment other than she said 'she thought it was important'.

 

[missy1974]

I did the mistake of checking twitter last night.... couldn't find a link last night that I could post but I see it's being reported this morning.

This jury absolutely should have been sequestered last week IMO she also said he should be found guilty of 1st degree murder. (which we know he isn't even charged with)

Maxine Waters urges Minnesota protesters to 'stay on the street' if Chauvin acquitted in Floyd case

Asked about the Derek Chauvin murder trial in Minneapolis, Waters told reporters if the former police officer isn't found guilty of murdering George Floyd, "We've got to stay on the street and we've got to get more active, we've got to get more confrontational. We've got to make sure that they know that we mean business."

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I liked Dr. Thomas.. BUT.. if I'm telling the truth, her not taking payment for this case gave me pause. Whether she was backing up her former coworker, doing it for the greater good, or whatever... it felt like she just wanted to interject herself into the case. That is JMO and I don't know what her reasons were for not taking payment other than she said 'she thought it was important'.

Perhaps the same reasons that his co-workers, trainers, the chief of police etc etc testified without being paid "consultants"?